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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead


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Topic: Restarts - double-file vs single-file Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 1 of 1   of  18 replies
Dzus Button
February 14, 2020 at 08:26:24 AM
Joined: 03/22/2015
Posts: 44
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My apologies if this topic had been discussed here in the past, but after listening to the latest open red podcast where they played audio from the first race from the 2010 season where the new double-file restart rule was in place and while being in discussions with my own organization this off season regarding them, I am curious of everyone's opinion - drivers, fans, owners, etc.  Do they really cause more equipment to be torn up?  Does it provide a better entertainment product for the fans?  Does it put the leader at a disadvantage?   I will say that single file through the cone sucks if they guy in front of you spins his tires or doesn't take off and you have to hang back or risk a penalty while the front of the field drives away.  Looking for all feedback. Thanks in advance.




the charm
February 14, 2020 at 09:04:12 AM
Joined: 12/16/2009
Posts: 77
Reply

Me personally don’t like two abreast, most fans seem to like. What I don’t like is the cone rule if the free flag is out , you should be able to pass. More the cone back to the white line and let’s race 



longtimefan
February 14, 2020 at 09:16:19 AM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 316
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: the charm on February 14 2020 at 09:04:12 AM

Me personally don’t like two abreast, most fans seem to like. What I don’t like is the cone rule if the free flag is out , you should be able to pass. More the cone back to the white line and let’s race 



+1




dirtonly
MyWebsite
February 14, 2020 at 09:54:05 AM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 19
Reply

I am not a fan of the 2 abreast start as it penalizes the leader by bringing his competition unfairly too close in many situations. Also, I think the restart cone should be closer to the exit of turn 4, but the drive's complaint is that some of the cars are just entering turn 3 with no momentum. I


" I was so loose out there that  could hardly get back
in line for the restart", Bobby Allen circa 1988

posselunatic
February 14, 2020 at 09:59:07 AM
Joined: 11/11/2019
Posts: 14
Reply

I prefer the 2 abreast starts, i think in most siutations with a single file restart the leader has too much of an advantage, leader should always be first to fire but they can slow the field down too much somtimes waiting to fire and then run away with it if there is only a few laps left especially 



RodinCanada
MyWebsite
February 14, 2020 at 10:19:00 AM
Joined: 07/24/2016
Posts: 907
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What about leader gets front row to himself, just a single car and then 2 wide after that. I think late models do that dont they?


Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!


StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
February 14, 2020 at 10:35:18 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 4631
Reply

My opinion defers back to when I was taking photos with the emphasis on multi car action shots during the Feature.  The double file starts usually bunched up the field in one and two on the first lap and provided some cool side by side and three wide. 

In my present situation as a fan who now watches most of my racing on PPV I really don't have a preference.  I started watching racing in 1960 and it was always single file until this double file thing came into vogue but I can't recall how long that has been going on.  I guess the old saying about track conditions being the same for everyone applies to restarts as well.  The drivers have to adapt to whatever the rules are, some are going to like double file and some won't.  The general consensus is that they tear up more equipment so I would imagine car owners would prefer the single file. 


Stan Meissner

Johnny Utah
February 14, 2020 at 10:43:18 AM
Joined: 07/15/2014
Posts: 946
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Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on February 14 2020 at 10:19:00 AM

What about leader gets front row to himself, just a single car and then 2 wide after that. I think late models do that dont they?



Sometimes. Its called a Delaware Double File restart. 



Jake B.
February 14, 2020 at 11:28:07 AM
Joined: 10/21/2005
Posts: 377
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Regarding the argument that double-file restarts tear up more equipment, has that ever been statistically proven?  Anyone can claim this all that they want, but if there aren't numbers to back it up then it's just an opinion.


Signature here.


Dryslick Willie
February 14, 2020 at 11:31:57 AM
Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 1523
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Jake B. on February 14 2020 at 11:28:07 AM

Regarding the argument that double-file restarts tear up more equipment, has that ever been statistically proven?  Anyone can claim this all that they want, but if there aren't numbers to back it up then it's just an opinion.



A discussion on an internet forum should never be marred by actual facts.   ;-)



SAF92
February 14, 2020 at 12:17:08 PM
Joined: 01/24/2018
Posts: 383
Reply

Double file makes for more eventful restarts, so I like it.

Except when the driver I'm rooting for is forced to restart in the less preferred lane.



Nick14
February 14, 2020 at 03:16:14 PM
Joined: 06/04/2012
Posts: 1212
Reply

I think their are positive and negatives for both. Some say single file is not exciting but I have seen some single file restarts and Knoxville that have been pretty intense. Really again it comes down to who your favorite or least favorite driver at that time. If your guy is the leader you may want a single file restart, if they are second or on back maybe double file so they can move up. I think it might be better getting rid of the cone this day and age. Just have the leader control the start between turn 4 & middle of the corner and after that fair game.

 




texdel
February 14, 2020 at 03:57:02 PM
Joined: 05/29/2007
Posts: 266
Reply

Double file restarts are fine, only thing I would change is putting the leader up front alone

as mentioned as the Delaware Double File Restart. I feel the leader deserves the right to start in front, but using

the double file on the rest of the field gives the fans more action thay pay to see nad it enhances the racing instead of having them

all strung out single file. JMO.

JP



JonR
February 14, 2020 at 10:33:23 PM
Joined: 05/28/2008
Posts: 733
Reply

I like the Deleware Double File restarts.   I also like it when the leader sets the pace.   Watching the leader go back and forth trying to judge when he is going to get on the gas causes a lot of excitment for fans.  

However, if you really want excitment go back to the restarts entering turn three and all of the Texas starts.  I remember being at tracks where they would be three abreast entering turn three.  

Cone restarts are the worse and it puts a track official on the racing surface which we should avoid at all costs.  



dmantx
MyWebsite
February 15, 2020 at 09:15:54 AM
Joined: 09/15/2005
Posts: 4662
Reply

We switched to Delaware restarts in the Sprint Car Bandits last year and the fans clearly like it much better than using a subjective cone in corner 4.

Very few driver complained. Most drivers commented that they like it a lot better because they're not upwards of a half a lap down after a restart. 

Here's a video clip of one of our events at Waco that had two Delaware restarts (it was a weird weather day and the track was taking rubber here and there which led to some erratic handling along the way). It will give you a taste:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW6POWgxAV4

>And when I commented 'subjective' regarding the cone in a corner, it means this: a driver in a car coming in to corner 4 can glance over and say 'there's the cone in corner 4, GO!' Or, they can go another 20 feet, glance over and say 'there's the cone in corner 4, GO!'   

You get the drift.

We dropped the cone altogether and went by a white stripe in corner 4 and that eliminates that subjectivity...on starts and restarts...as a white stripe is the same from all vantage points. 

Our rule is the front row (or leader on Delaware restart) must maintain their speed from corner 3 until they reach the white stripe and the race is on. And that also eliminates the throttle jockeying. And as long as the driver(s) adhere to the start rules, it results in much much cleaner and safer starts.  Smile 




Murphy
February 15, 2020 at 09:28:33 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 1600
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: dmantx on February 15 2020 at 09:15:54 AM

We switched to Delaware restarts in the Sprint Car Bandits last year and the fans clearly like it much better than using a subjective cone in corner 4.

Very few driver complained. Most drivers commented that they like it a lot better because they're not upwards of a half a lap down after a restart. 

Here's a video clip of one of our events at Waco that had two Delaware restarts (it was a weird weather day and the track was taking rubber here and there which led to some erratic handling along the way). It will give you a taste:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW6POWgxAV4

>And when I commented 'subjective' regarding the cone in a corner, it means this: a driver in a car coming in to corner 4 can glance over and say 'there's the cone in corner 4, GO!' Or, they can go another 20 feet, glance over and say 'there's the cone in corner 4, GO!'   

You get the drift.

We dropped the cone altogether and went by a white stripe in corner 4 and that eliminates that subjectivity...on starts and restarts...as a white stripe is the same from all vantage points. 

Our rule is the front row (or leader on Delaware restart) must maintain their speed from corner 3 until they reach the white stripe and the race is on. And that also eliminates the throttle jockeying. And as long as the driver(s) adhere to the start rules, it results in much much cleaner and safer starts.  Smile 



     When the leaders hit the white line and take off, is the guy in 7th place able to take off too, or does he have to wait until he's past the white line to pass?



dmantx
MyWebsite
February 15, 2020 at 10:34:46 AM
Joined: 09/15/2005
Posts: 4662
Reply
Murphy

The complete rule is this: the front row (or leader) and the field behind them must enter corner 3 nose-to-tail, side-by-side with NO fanning out. The lead row (or leader) must maintain the pace they entered in corner 3 until hitting the white stripe, then the race is on for the entire field. There's no waiting around to get to the white stripe for the drivers behind the lead row to start racing.

The key to it working is that we don't have a 'free pass' to someone that doesn't follow the rule. The non-waving green flag and green lights come on then the yellow comes out on the backstretch and the infracting driver goes back 1 row and the race restarts. 

That only happens every once and a while, as most guys know we're stringent on this rule to help keeping wrecks from happening due to someone playing games on restarts.

Works great!

This past May we had an event along with non-sanctioned open Midgets and Limited Modifieds. None of those drivers had essentially ever ran the Sprint Car Bandits starts/restart rules - which I went over a couple of times in the pit meeting.

And not 1 driver in those two divisions caused any problems or issues all night. Several of the fans commented that they thought they were watching a military parade when cars came down for starts. And there were no wrecks fron any of it either.

Several National tour drivers joined us in the SCB that night and they followed the rule to a T as well. No issues whatsoever. 
It's essentially the same lineup rules that I had for the LoneStar Sprint Nationals in 2011 and 2012 - which worked great there too when the event brought in sprint teams from all areas where there a veriety of 'this is how we do it at home' start rules. It eliminated problems as 'their' home town track or series rules on starts didn't apply. (and there were like 117 sprints one year between 2 divisions and 131 the other year)

I just hate seeing cars tore up unneccessarily, and as long as a driver doesn't think the rule doesn't apply to them, this procedure, so far, seems to fix all of that. 

I encourage other tracks and series to try it out. Doesn't cost anything and fans will like it.



linbob
February 15, 2020 at 04:30:13 PM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1301
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Johnny Utah on February 14 2020 at 10:43:18 AM

Sometimes. Its called a Delaware Double File restart. 



To satisfy everyone you could go 2 wide the first yellow, then after that go single file. Should also mention lapped cars, should they be mixed in or go to rear?




RodinCanada
MyWebsite
February 15, 2020 at 06:38:20 PM
Joined: 07/24/2016
Posts: 907
Reply

Mixed in. That may prevent them frim racing the leader hard as possible then letting 2nd go easy.


Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!



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