Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

This is not a thread to debate whether the race should be 50 laps or some other amount.

Do you think the 50 lap race favors one driver over another?  Do you think the distance takes some drivers out of the running either due to physical limitations or ability to string together 50 "perfect" laps?  Does it benefit a younger driver like Sweet or Schuchart?  Does Larson benefit since he runs 400-500 miles a weekend?

Does the pit stop make that big of a difference in terms of changing the set up on the car?  Is there much that can be done to change the car that much?

Not a driver or a crew member, it would be awesome to get some feedback from either.

Every driver entered knows its 50laps going into it. Rules are the same for everyone & they knew it would be 50laps since last years so if its a question of physical conditioning, they had a year to get in shape. 50laps won't favor 1 driver in the A-Main over another. In order to get into the Nationals A-Main is feat in of itself, so you prove you have the ability just being 1 of 24 starters. If it was 20, 25, 30, 40 they still need to string together the best laps than the other drivers. I don't think the pitstop effects the race as much as some think it does. Just angers traditionalists and nostaglic individuals who feel a sprint car race starts with x amount of cars for x amount of laps and should have x conditions. 50laps just makes the race better in my opinion. At the end there is no debate on who the best driver and team is after what all have to do in the A-Main and the qualifying night.

Crew chiefs need to have the car good at the end 50 laps. Smooth straight drivers managing tires for the end of race. Need to run good laps every lap especially If not starting near the front. Knoxville not one of the more physical demanding tracks so I don't think that's a real big issue unless its abnormally hot.

I know it’s not the point of your post, but 50 is so much better than 30 laps. 

I very much doubt physical limitations has any influence over any of the qualified drivers, although there could be an exception due to illness or injury on a given night. It's still ability, car setup and access to fresh top notch equipment that gets it done. You failed to mention power steering as the equalizer. The small noodle armed drivers can now wheel the car with the strongest of drivers. And power steering does more than assist with the steering, it helps reduce kick-back through the steering wheel. Check out Sammy's arms the next time you get a chance. He's still pretty stout. Wolfgang still has some pipes, too. as most drivers from that generation do. I'd think the 30 lap events they raced back in the 70's needed more driver stamina that the 50 lapper of today, which is actually 2/25's.

I wonder about conditioning and training programs now that you mention it.  It was mentioned to look at old guys like Sammy and Doug.  Even the King, Steve was a strong larger guy.  Do today's guys work out?  Train?  Just wondering.  I know as a Sioux Falls resident and somebody who has saw Doug numerous times in my life that he was a regular in the gym and running around town.  After age and injury he switched more to his bike.  But the point is, he as well as others knew long ago that conditioning is part of the sport.  So to settle a debate that hasnt even popped up yet in this thread....yes, those drivers are athletes. Many are very athletic. .....or were.   

Next year @ the 60th Knoxville Nationals A-Main, they should run 60 laps.

(2) - 30 Lap segments.

Good point on the power steering.  That's got to help even things up.

Don't know how many of the touring drivers do any kind of working out.   I can tell you that MacKenna Haase was on American Ninja Warriors a few weeks ago, so there's one that does for sure.  

A lot of drivers train on their own or are on a training program. Have seen posts from several working out at different performance centers. I would say it's probably different today than it was in the 80s & 90s, just like it is in most sports. Unlike just doing strength training which is probably what guys did back in the day, a number of guys are doing CrossFit or endurance type training.

Seen guys like Macedo post stuff before, Schuchart seems to look fit, as does Sweet. Donny even posted some training pics a couple years ago. Have you seen Kraig Kinser recently!!?? Holy crap, you know he's been working out & of course McKenna Haase does the Ninja type training.

I hope he does not win, but Donny S. is at his best when track dries out.  There is alot of luck in racing and any driver can get cought up in a crash.

I've never been a fan of the 50 laps because of the stoppage.  I like sprint car racing to be more of a gamble on tires and fuel than having a known stop to make adjustments.  Caution and Red Flag stops are different.

However, I do have a question since I cant seem to research or find any rules concerning the "break" during the 50 laps.  I think if a caution comes out around or after lap 20 but before 25, they would call that the mandatory stoppage, right?  

I guess where I am headed with this is:  Is there any stragedy for a driver in the rear to stall or throw out a caution early?  I'm not knowledgable on set up, adjustments, etc....but if a guy running at the rear came in around lap 20, just ahead of the break, could he not have his team look the car over, talk about what to do during the upcoming break, and get set up so when they do have a change of tire and fuel added they could already have troubleshooted some things to make the stop more effecient?  

Or is that just way out there thinking?  Just more or less wondering if there is any stragedy involved that people have considered.

It would seem the longer the race, the more it is going to favor the better teams/drivers.  It is a bigger test of machinery which favors the bigger teams with top notch equipment & preparation.

Also, the 50 laps gives a top driver more time to move to the front.  See the year Schatz won from the B.  It could be done in 30 laps, but would probably require a perfect set of circumstances (lots of yellows/reds) & a balls out charge to the front.  Doing what he did is no picnic even in 50 laps, but it gives them more time to work traffic & put hands on the car for changes at the mid race break.  It would seem with today's cars, a back to front charge in 30 laps with no yellows would be near impossible.  

I have attended in person the last couple years & personally like the 50 lap format.  The biggest race of the year should be a little different.  Also, they do a pretty efficient job of getting the cars in, refueled & pushed off again.  Not like it is a big time drag.  

     I remember seeing him jogging up North Cliff Avenue past Barney's, a street steep enough that walking up it would wear out most people.

My thoughts:

I don't think physical limitations or ability are of great concern.  As eluded to, most drivers in great shape.  Also, it is 2-25 lap races broken with a 10-15 minute stoppage.  

I don't know how much can be done to change the car or if it favors anyone.  I will say this as an observation since they have been doing this format:  No one has ever completely come from nowhere after making the adjustments.  I think all teams know what the track has done, are guessing what it will do, and are making changes going the same direction.  I think the teams with the biggest notebooks would have the best idea on how to make this happen, but I have seen no cars just completely catch fire after the intermission.  Unless I'm wrong?  In 2010, Sammy blew a tire and Donny smoked a cylinder.  Sure, Tim was in position, but the changes they made didn't make him fly into the lead from the restart.  

JMO's

Good questions though rolldog

Its still a gamble maybe even more so with the stop. Do you adjust & what adjustments do you make?

I guess they could stop and go to the work area and talk but they could potentially be sacraficing track position & every spot is key during the A-Main. They can't make any adjustments really while in the work area unless they blew a tire or if there is damage to the car. Plus I think there have been a couple times where the caution has come out between 20-25 and officals just made that moment the open read so you are already gambling with that strategy.

Plus it does not really give you a leg up because say a driver stalls running between 15-19 but only 2 cars are 1 lap down. You potentally have lost 4-8 spots and all 20 or so drivers ahead of you all have the opportunity to come in and make adjustments. With the competition level in the A-Main, I do not see someone running mid to back of the pack stopping, making what few adjustments can be made during the open red, suddenly gaining the spots they gave up and then gaining more in 25. Could happen but would be very rare. Then to the big equalizer. I believe it is only 2 minutes they have to make adjustments on the car during the open red. They have some time to debreif with the team before the horn goes off but when the horn sounds, 2 minutes (might be wrong but remember hearing that last year. Announcer said that they can make any adjustments but it was really enough time to change tires & fuel. Are allowed to change gears but probably would not recommend it). No matter what amount of time it is, most changes are tires, air pressure, fuel, and maybe a quick shock change. Most of the strategy is to get the car as good as you can before the feature for the driver to go full go 25 laps, change tires the next 25, then go full go again. The strategy for the whole week is get as close to finishing 1st in everything (qualifying, heats, feature) as possible to start near the front Saturday, and get to the front Saturday.

Blazer gets it... The race is actually 2.  The second 25 is won by the driver that best communicates with his crew.  The short break between segments gives the driver the time to breath and get ready for the back half of the knoxville nationals. If anyone really believes 2 25 lap segments is not physically demanding your wrong. 

Physically demanding?  Yes.  The same as running 50 laps non-stop?  Not even close.  

Let them run 50 no break.

In Doug's Autobiography "Lone Wolf", he speaks rather extensively about his physical conditioning. When he made the (22 hours I think?) drive from Sioux Falls to Fairfield, PA. during his tenure in the Weikert 29, he would crank the heat in his car all the way up once he got to the Pennsylvania border and sweat his ass off for the last part of the drive. If you haven't read that book, pick up a copy and read it. Best book I've ever read.