Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

It seems like there are plenty of opportunities for many of these young racers to run locally in the midwest to learn and improve instead of going out and getting kicked around with the Outlaws.  I look at a guy like Hillier who could end up being a real decent driver, yet he is out running 23rd.  Just look at what has happened this past year to Kemenah!  He was a 4 time AllStar champ and has just been repeatedly beaten up out on the road. 

Has it finally happened that the days of the "money racer" are all but gone.  There are only a couple of guys who will still cherry pick the high dollar shows.  Gary Wright, Danny Smith, and lately in the 1H Shane Stewart.  Stewart is fast becoming my favorite racer, because the guy wins 10G's in Portland, rolls in Kville and runs well, then sticks around and wins a 360 show and should have won the Jackson Nationals for 5Gs.  How cool is that. 

Take Madsen, he could have made some serious bank this past year running locally.  Not that he has done a bad job on the road, but you put him back in his 55 car days and get him a gas sponsor for Husets, heck he probably has 5 wins at Knoxville X $3000/8 wins at HusetsX2000 + another 5-8 wins with the IRA and some top 5 finishes w/ Outlaws and All Stars.  Instead the team has made $92,000 for the year + Knoxville.  I know t-shirt sales make a big difference, but he would have sold at least that many around here, much like McCarl did.  Also, there is the $20,000 that goes to the Knoxville champion, that is not too shabby.

I can see a day when Knoxville and Husets and maybe River Cities Speedway in ND get together to form some kind of regional 410 series with a decent points fund, maybe over twenty or so races. Maybe add a track like Eagle, US 36, Denison, Spencer, ect. for an occasional race. I do not see the WoO having 25 teams next year...I do see them with 15 to 18 traveling teams. The sport needs to get back to having drivers racing to win as opposed to collecting tow money. Hopefully, more opportunities to race will help grow the number of participants.

I thought that's one of the huge questions for next year. this offseason is gonna be CRAZY!

I'd like to see a regional series with Knoxville and Huset's and Grand Forks. Having 18-20 cars for the Outlaws would be great because it would leave 4 spots for the best regulars at whichever track they are racing. It's teams like Mark Dobmeier that are much like Chad Hillier or Sam Hafertepe.. they dominate there weekly shows at home but have to decide whether to race with the WoO or not. And this year showed it. I don't know how many teams will race next year because of $$$, like always. Hillier, Haftertepe, now Haud and Madsen probably won't be around next year. I think Bruce will because there is alot of money behind them. Teams like Hindi and Martin ran out of money early. Larry Woodward doesn't know what he wants to do.

WHO KNOWS!

The Husets owners don't believe in point funds.

Sprint car racing is to dam expensive, if it wasn't for sugar daddys with money to blow it would be a dead sport .

Most good teams in the midwest have somebody behind them with some money paying the bills.

Personally on a local level I don't see how a sponser could make there money back advertising on a local car.

I watched the 13 car of Dobmier at Husets weekly and he won a 6 or 8 there and a couple at Knoxville and a bunch in Grand Forks but I bet his winnings did not pay 10% of his expences. Yes they have some sponsers but I bet most of there money came from the owners pocket.

Theres no money to be make in sprint car racing unless your Tony Stewart or Kasey Kahne!

You hit the nail on the head. When 26 touring cars pulled into our local track I was thinking to myself "enjoy it because you'll never see this many unfamiliar cars again." I think what we're seeing with the recent announcements is a drop back to numbers that our present economy can support, about 15-18 like you said.

A $50,000 winner's purse automatically gets cut to $25,000 after taxes. Factor in whatever the owner and driver spit is and that there can only be one winner then check the payoff through rest of the field. Consider how far they have drove their hauler in the past week getting 6 mpg at $3 per gallon then add the motel, entry fees, meals, mechanic's salary, etc. Are we far enough in the red yet or do I have to list a few more expenses? Blow a motor? Wrinkle the wings and break some bolt on parts? That big $50,000 to win purse doesn't look so good anymore. Without sponsors with deep pockets none of these guys would even be able to leave their shops.

Regional series and weekly tracks could become a better option for more teams as fuel prices increase. Unfortunately, drivers can't make a living chasing a 30 race regional schedule but they can work M-F and race weekends. Grand Forks, Knoxville and Husets are quite a distance from each other and I can only think of one driver who was able to run that schedule. I heard that some IRA teams were doubling up and hauling two cars per hauler on their northern swings so for a lot of regional racers a 300 mile tow isn't always easy.

We had a good year and enjoyed seeing new travelers we have never seen before so 2007 was fun from that standpoint. I just hope some of these talented drivers that are going to be looking for rides can keep on racing at the top level. Even a good regional touring team costs a lot of money to field.

Stan Meissner

Dude........Sam Hafertepe never dominated a damn thing. Did well at 2 tracks (Cowtown and Mid America). He was competitive at best. Much like Bruce. They got the shit kicked out of em every race by G. Wright and J. Johnson. And even Rilat. Those are 2 drivers that run WoO more because of money than talent. Really they still had more maturing to do in ASCS. Same with J. Martin and Z. Chappell too.

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funny this topic comes up, I was just talking with my crew about making some kind of tour between these three tracks , just on our own, next season Id like to make the tow to Knoxville and turn a few laps , on the way down or back home we would stop at RCS and or Husets or (whichever track) is looking like a possible night to stop, anything close to our planned route, were not traveling for Money because Ive summed up (racing)its just a good way to make sure you dont have any money, although my seat time doesnt exactly present myself as a 410 driver I would like to get more experiance ( react to changes) and tracks with a 360 Im hopeing the Northern Plains region of ASCS will find more dates closer to my local track , Ultimately were on our "Road to Knoxville" if we bend it up on the way I guess we'll just close down the Dingus

The thing that is gonna kill the World of Outlaws is Tony Stewart and Kasey Kahne. Let me explain my theory. Tony Stewart will more than likely have 2 cars next year that will dominate. Rumors have it Kasey Kahne may add another team. If this is the case, and if Tony's cars get faster, and Kahne's cars get faster, most everyone else will be racing for a 4th place check every night. Now that my friends, 4th place in a world of outlaw show is crap. Would make more money by far racing at Knoxville and Huset's and all of the other specials in the area. I think next year at Knoxville just may be the hot ticket. Possibly have Dion Hindi, Brooke Tatnell, Kerry Madsen, heck it doesn't even sound like things are looking good for the 83 of Lasoski. I know Huset's could easily put together a major point fund with Knoxville. If Huset's could bring back time trials, match Knoxville weekly purse, and improve there end of year points, they might just have them selves a gold mine.

Jeff

I agree with you to a point. But i don't think Tony Stewart and Kasey Kahne will dominate mainly because DIRT is to worried about keeping the competition close. They're talking about changing the wings now. Look at last year... Dude brought out a new wing with bigger sidepanels and they outlawed that. Many drivers are looking for that edge but DIRT is taking it away.

Interesting post. I have never had the opportunity to see the back pay at Husets, but I would agree that I would love to see time trials come back. Unfortunately I am in the minority. I am going to add an asterisk to my post about Knoville and Husets and it goes like this.

What seperates the PA region and even the OH region from Knoxville/Husets, Sioux Falls? It is the number of "specials". Not Outlaw events, but the run of the mill specials that pay extra for the weekly guys. Husets especially fails in this department. I look at Fremont and Port Royal and both had shows that paid 15 and 30 to win this past year. Why doesn't Husets go back to having a 10-12 thousand to win show. Especially when they had the NOSA Husets challenge. Give a local team a shot to put some money in their pocket. And then there is Knoxville. I thought the best thing about the 1200lb. nat's was a 12G payout for a local team. Even though it was All Star/IRA sactioned, it was a show where most of the local teams made good money. When the outlaws are in town only the top 3-4 teams make the A. Start and Husets v Knoxville challenge with it being 5,000 to win each show with a 5,000 bonus if you win both? Call up a Wayne Johnson, D Smith, Forbrook car and so on to bring in some "invaders" to add some extra intrigue to the show.

On the other side, what has happened to the Knoxville guys traveling??? It used to seem as if there were 5-8 teams who would get out and run all of the local events that paid good money that were within 4 hrs drive. Now you could hold a 3000 to win 300 to start show at the Iowa St Fairgrounds and draw 12 410's. Look at the Richert Memorial at Cedar Lake(where I believe they get 200-300 in tow money). Ricky Logan and Davey Heskin were the only 2 names I saw in the results. Where is was the rest of the top 5? The cars need to support the higher dollar shows, and the tracks need to support the drivers with 1-2 shows that pay out a higher amount.

........ And, when DIRT takes away the ability for anybody to inovate new ideas, the $$$ teams will excel, because they are better able to focus on the little things. You know, like putting the car on a muti-million dollar chassis dyno.......

Look at Huset's this year...this year's "Bend the Rules" day was only a one day show...and some of the classes couldn't even 'bend the rules'. 3000 to win for a 410/360 race, they got lucky with 33 cars. But look at how many non-locals there were. 4 if you dont count the 2 ND guys that dont show up every week. Could you imagine if I90 had run their Cheaters day that day? The car count wouldve been pathetic. And who can forget season championship night? The half championship night...Heat races for the championship! Sure Dobmeier had the points wrapped up in the 410s...but after the heat races the top two in the 360 class were only separated by 4 points and the top two in the street stock class were only separated by 1 point! Are you kidding me??? Point battles like that, and youre not even going to let them finish it out? Say next year the same thing happens and just for the hell of it we will say Bronson Maeschen showed up from Knoxville every week and was second in points, only 3 behind the leader...you think hes going to want to come back next year?


You want to know the real reason why teams can no longer travel between Knoxville and Huset's? It is because the Rubins don't want it that bad. They have no point fund and they payout sucks. They don't want to put up anymore money than they currently do because they are sitting just fine with what they have. They make enough money at the gate, with pit passes ( now at 25 bucks ), and the rediculous concessions, that they could care less...

I guess we cant forget to add gas prices to the list too...

True on the gas prices.

I thought that Husets still had a point fund that was equal to the top 10 paying in a weekly show? Am I wrong on that?

While 2,000 isn't exactly "champions money" it would help in paying the gas.

As a quick aside, this is not meant to be a pick on Husets thread. They have had nice Outlaw sprint class this past year and still have the best Sunday night deal going in the country.

I think from "surveying" a few of the drivers at Knoxville about this exact issue, their purse structure makes it hard for most teams to justify travelling. No matter where you place at Husets it is pretty close to 50% pay off vs. Knoxville. How many teams are split equal distance or so from the 2 tracks? Not many. Knoxville points fund and driver/car owner prizes at the points banquet I'd wager would make any other dirt track in the country look like pikers. If the same groceries are much higher 30 miles down the road, no one would even think about driving there to shop. On the other hand, if you can save more than your gas by driving a few miles many shoppers look on that as a good bargain. The reverse is true for the Husets vs. Knoxville question.

R.A.

S.H.S.

If a $50,000 winners check is turning into $25,000 after taxes then someone should get a new tax man.

I just grabbed a figure off the top of my head without cosuting H&R Block. Even if they're getting $30,000 of the $50,000 the point I'm making is still valid. Motors cost $40,000+, I don't know what a rebuild costs but that can't be cheap and they've got to have several motors in the transporter to stay out on the road. Even if my 50% tax bracket estimate was wrong it's still $3 per gallon and back when I used to do fuel taxes for a private fleet 20 years ago they got around 5-6 mpg. I'm sure that number hasn't changed that much. Motels and crew salary aren't cheap either.

So what are you saying sdcheek? Just because I hastily grabbed a tax number that you don't agree with does that make my point invalid? So are you saying that I'm wrong and it really isn't expensive to keep a WoO team on the road for the season? What's your point? Is my post incompetent on all counts or are you sitting there with a red pen like an ol' school teacher scouring my posts for wrong answers so you can circle them in red and make an example of me in front of the class

Stan Meissner

First off, I love to hear and read talk about new "regional" tours, like Knox, Husets and GF. This idea can only increase car counts and strengthen programs. The funny thing is though, that River Cities has been trying to do just that for the last 10 years. Every year they host the Knox,Husets,GF challenge where a points battle was to be set among drivers from each track. However, this was when Husets was strong and what usually happened was that the GF show was poorly attended by drivers from the south. However, now that Husets seems to be in a slump (just based on what I've read here) and GF is on a high (mostly due to the performance and recognition Mark has earned) those from the south are asking for some sort of tour.

Secondly to answer the first post in this thread, why would drivers go out and get hammered on by the big boys rather than stay locally and earn some money. It's all about pride. Ego plays a major role here. If all it took was money to make the NFL, every fat ass with cash would be trying out for the vikings. THink of it this way, I and many others nationwide had no clue who Hafertepe or Hillier were before this year. They suck it up for a year or two getting their names out there then when a real ride comes along they are now more attractive to fill it. Much like the possibility of Solwold filling the 20 car. Just putting in their time paying their dues.

Knoxville guys aren't gonna tow to Husets for the low payout, they don't pay back very well through the field. The point fund at $2000 to win is a joke. The other problem is that it's Sunday night. Some of the guys still have jobs they need to be at on Monday. It's also a tough track on equipment because of the concrete walls. It's a great place to watch a race. The locals do put on a good show.

I don't intend to bash Henderson but will he stay out with the Outlaws. That team has to be going through a ton of money. He wasn't even that good of a local driver compared to some of the other locals, although a couple years of touring with the Outlaws have turned him into a pretty good driver.

Let's analyze this and see how practical it would be for a Sprint Car team to run these three tracks on a weekly basis. I will cover the basics and you're going to have to pitch in and fill in the details.

I googled average mpg for tractor trailers and see that it has come up to around 7mpg since my days doing state fuel taxes for a hardware company private fleet. Let's take a team based in Knoxville, Iowa, as an example. Mapquest shows 592.79 miles from Knoxville to Grand Forks. Assuming that our theoretical Knoxville driver is self employed he can get every Friday off work all summer so he could run Grand Forks weekly. Our driver is going to need every Friday off because 592.79 miles divided by 70 miles per hour average speed comes to over eight hours so he's going to have to leave early Friday morning.

Let's double our 592.79 miles to Grand Forks from Knoxville because our team is going to have to rise early on Saturday morning, do maintenance if they're using one car and drive over eight hours back to Knoxville. Hopefully they'll have a good night at Knoxville because they won't have much time to work on the car before heading to Brandon the next day.

Sunday will be another busy day, get up early, do maintenance on the car and head north. Husets will add another 333.26 miles each way to our weekly travel and we've got to get back to Knoxville for work on Monday so let's double that number. We're going to drive another 666.52 miles round trip getting home in the wee hours of Monday morning. I hope our driver isn't an accountant or computer technician because his Mondays are going to s*ck all summer if he's got to think very hard at 7am.

So all told our theoretical Knoxville driver has put 1852.10 miles on his hauler at 7 miles per gallon. At a summertime fuel price of at least $3 per gallon it's going to cost our Knoxville team approximately $793 in fuel. Running Grand Forks is going to require a weekly motel bill and we're going to have pit passes and entry fees at three tracks.

Here's where you can help fill in the blanks so we can see if this all makes sense. What's the average cost of a motel room in grand forks? How many people are on a typical weekend Sprint Car team, a driver and maybe three or four other guys? Based on four people what will our motel, pit passes and entry fees be? So we need to figure close to $800 fuel, one night motel, meals, and entry fees/pit passes at three weekly tracks.

My conclusion after doing my fuzzy math is that (a) Mark Dobmeier should change his name to Superman Dobmeier and (b) people who bring up ideas like this don't stop to do the math or they probably would know why nobody besides Dobmeieir was able to do this.

I had fun doing my ball park estimate and came to the conclusion that anything that comes Mark Dobemeier's way in this sport, he payed his dues and earned it. Don't look for many others to run these three tracks weekly, it would break the bank of most weekly Sprint teams by the end of May. In addition to that most people who tried to do this would end up getting fired for falling asleep on the job.

Stan Meissner

I agree with you 100% Stan , I dont see the practicallity of making money at this sport even on the national level, the overhead and operating costs have gotten way to astronomical to make it lagit, Unless you have a sugar daddy in your corner doing eveything possible to keep his car running around the track in circles, is not possible , you still havent tallied in Tires, fuel , and a little bender for one of the three nights ? Dob has everything coming if a door does swing his way , although his year would be fun , it might turn into a Job , and a few poor finishes and struggles could quickly send me looking for a fishing pole , Now my question is , why havent they come up with a traveling points fund , those three tracks could present a fund for area drivers willing to tow throughout the year, give them eight of thier best finishes throughout the season , a little incentive to try make a few nights somewhere off the broken path , Maybe, this has been researched , just curious