Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Here's what's funny.  You are all talking about the 15 car and that car only.  What about the other teams?  Everyone has accused the 15 of sandbagging in time-trials for years yet when they change the format for qualifying being so important he is still qualifying in about the same as the last couple years. (DANG, that theory is out the window)  You are all so focused on the 15 that you would never even stop to consider that there may be other major players out there bending a few rules.  The purpose of my original post was to ask who is atually teching these guys and how is it done?   I too enjoy going to as many of the WoO races as possible but have often wondered.  I have never seen any kind of motor teching done before or after a race.  That doesn't mean it doesn't happen that's why I was asking.  One last thing.  We still don't have a name of the actual tech person for this series.  Is there actually a person in charge of this?

Yes there is, but I'm not going to post a name on a forum like this.  (I can see the "WoO tech inspector _____ isn't doing his job" etc. posts on here already.)   Nor am I going to detail all the procedures.  If you'd like to meet the tech inspector, come to a race and introduce yourself.  

"...checking transponders (no one would ever cheat there, would they?)"

I never chime in here but I will on this one as I see similiar posts across all many different racing forums and as a proponent of transponders in all divisions (it helps eliminate human error) I feel it best to dispel common myths.

You cannot cheat a transponder.  The lap time does not start until the transponder crosses the scoring loop, which is a two wire antenna buried under the track, and time ends when it once again crosses the loop at the end of the lap (which also is the beginning of the next lap).  The transponder does nothing but broadcast a weak, unique signal which the antenna picks up.  The decoder and associated software, which are located in the tower, does the rest.  Timing is in no way, shape or form in the hands of the drivers.

Most sanctions require you to mount it in a particular location, such as the engine plate, to keep things standard across all cars.  That way, when they cross the loop they look the same.  If, however, you decide to mount it elsewhere it still functions the same, the only difference is how the cars look from the stands.  i.e. One car has it mounted to the front bumper, another to the rear bumper.  If the front-bumper mounted car has his nose to the rear bumper mounted cars rear tire (his transponder in front of the rear-bumper transponder), he wins even though it looks like the rear-bumper car has him by half a car length.  The loop does not care where the transponder is on the car, only that it crossed the line.

The only way to cheat during qualifying would be to mount it to the rear bumper to start the lap, then during the lap magically move it to the front bumper, thus gaining you about .001 of a second.

Last summer, I saw several pictures on social media of a gentleman wearing a goofy looking straw cowboy like hat and a WoO staff jersey applying an unfamiilar (to me) device to cars.  So I asked.  Turns out, he was doing the tech inspection on cars.  I took my own car to a race last summer and sure enough, the same gentleman (along with a couple others) spent about 20 minutes doing tech on my car.  When they were done, they put a metallic numbered sticker on the frame.  That night, there was a car that was not allowed to race becasue it did not pass tech. 

So I will also vouch that tech is done and I will vouch that cars that do not pass are not allowed to race.  As for answering the original question of who, I can't remember the fella's name.

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That is great that the WoO tech the cars before the races and to see if a car meets the standards to race. But all that is "CYA" for the WoO from a liability standpoint.  Just imagine if they left a car race without teethers or proper cage thickness etc and something happened then stand back because here comes the attorneys.  So my opinion is that pre race tech is a liability issue.

But no one yet has the answer what is teched during and after the race. And when was the last time a surprise check of fuel or whatever was done to keep the teams on their toes.

Johnny I appreciate what you do for the series and coming on this message board but saying we tech and not being specific with some things  that are done just puts things more in question to me. Why so secretive?  Your answer seems to me like the NFL saying that was holding and no need to see the replay just trust us. I am a Steelers fan like you , how long would you put up with answers like that. I am not accusing anyone of cheating just asking a question? 

I'm enjoying this topic & it looks like we're getting some good answers. But, I've seen a few posts from people who were not allowed to race because their cars didn't pass tech. I assume they aren't named Shatz, Pittman, Sweet, McMahon, Saldana, etc? I think it's all on the up & up, but if a premire team doesn't pass tech, are they immediately DQ'd like Joe sixpack or are they told what didn't pass & give a chance to fix the issue? Just a thought....

I would think that the "secrecy", as you refer to it, isn't secrecy at all, rather a deliberate vagueness of what would be "teched" by WoO officials. If you were a competitor, knew ahead of time what they were checking for, and were looking for that "competetive advantage", you'd likely concentrate your efforts on a part of the car that isn't going to be checked. Then the very rules that are present to prevent cheating, actually promote it. If competitors are unsure of what "tech" will do, and still want to bend the rules, then they're rolling the dice with the odds stacked against them. I think that's a far more effective deterrent.

Hey Jonny, just curious, when was the last time a WOO regular was caught with something illegal and DQd from a race and/or fined or suspended? 

Are you serious? This is nothing like your silly NFL example, if it's so damn important for you to find out who techs and what they tech, do like Jonny says and go to a race and find out for yourself, no one is hiding anything. You just basically accused Jonny Gibson of being in on a conspiracy to keep the tech officials name and job a secret and then try to be cool with him about the Steelers, Jonny has too much class to call you a douche bag but I don't, ya douche bag.

If one of the drivers or teams thought another driver or team was cheating and basically stealing money and food from the mouths of all the other drivers children, I would be willing to bet they would be protesting and demanding tech, as long as the drivers and teams don't think the 15 or anyone else cheating I'm going to side with them and ignore all the conspiracy theorists on Hoseheads, I suggest you do the same.

At a Knoxville WoO show it is a combination of WoO officials and Knoxville Raceway officials looking over the cars at the scales after the A main. Sorry, i do not know the names of any of the WoO guys in the tech area. And I believe Knoxville still takes a sample from each teams fuel tank before the races to check it.

I think they should hire that guy out of Missouri, Fast Eddy or something like that.   He's always teching something.   Front wings to oversized 360's     Plus he knows how to build bigger motors too.

I was told of all my violations and given a chance to fix them.  If I could get everything fixed, they would come back and reinspect. No big deal.  I remember parking beside Schatz all week in Volusia and the officials were always crawling on his car.  I was sitting on Danny Smiths front tire watching officials inspect and jokingly said something to Donny about it and he sounded extremely frustrating griping his car is the only car they go over with a fine tooth comb on.  

If you think about, Schatz has the absolute most to lose legacy-wise so he probably makes sure he's always playing by the rules...

Brandon McLain
United Sprint Car Series Driver
2014 Season
National Rookie of the Year!
National Points - 8th
Southern Points - 3rd
Asphalt Points - 3rd
18 Races, 3 Top 5's, 14 Top 10's

We were all having a civil discussion and debate on this topic. Till one person  resorted to name calling,  do you fill important now?

As far as my reference to the NFL I was using an analogy.  I will wait while you look the word up in the dictionary, no it is the other book; you are looking in the phone book.

I can see you need to change your screen name to Stagger "Blind" -Lee because you are blind to simple inquiries.  And apparently you have never been to a car going through post race tech.  Everybody and their brother can not be around the car so just how would a person see what is all teched.

Thanks to everyone else who posted so far on this topic for the good lively informative debate.

It is hard to believe no WOO car has been caught with an illegal motor or traction control or treated tires and been DQd and/or fined/suspended in recent memory.  Maybe I've missed it but I can't remember it happening.  All other major series have.  NASCAR is constanly catching people.   The lower tier pavement series do as well.  Dirt late model cars have been DQd and been fined and suspended in the not so distant memory.  Tires are the most common thing.  How many times has Bloomer had issues?  Lol.  I suppose the elite dirt sprint car racers are either the most honest guys in the country or possibly just the smartest.  None of them ever seem to get caught.  

There is a huge difference in the way these teams operate. Most sprint car teams use parts that are purchased "over the counter". They buy, and mount their tires at the track. Their engines are mostly built by well known engine shops. Most of their work goes on at the track, where you are parked side by side with your competitor. 

With the late models, there is a lot more in house fabrication that goes on. Many "home built" chassis and parts. Many more "home built" engines than what you see in the sprint car world. Tires are usually purchased a few nights ahead of time, and they are prepped at the shop. (by prep, I am talking siping and grooving) They do more stuff behind closed doors than what sprint car teams do. Stuff is just more secret in the late model world. 

as for nascar, sheesh, look at the rule book sometime. I am glad sprint cars do not have a rule book like that. Ride height rules, body rules, all measured to within a thousandths of an inch. I am surprised more do not get caught. 

As far as I am concerned the tech side of the sport should stay at the track. I have been with, and raced with many different sanctions. The best, most thorough tech would be the outlaws. The weakest tech? ASCS. 

Main things you could cheat on are NITRO, TIRES,TRACTION CONTROL,CUBIC INCHES.  I can not think of anything else that would help alot like titanium rods.  Most tracks weigh cars.  I do not know what the items are that you are thinking of.  A tester for MSD boxes that contain traction control can be made but I never hear of anyone wanting one.

I agree with you 100% if what your saying is that there aren't many ways to cheat that aren't being checked, and to me, nothing about this thread really makes any sense at all. I just thought it was a little rediculous to accuse the WoO of holding their tech procedures in secrecy when I don't believe that to be the case at all. I also don't think any team should have the expectation of knowing what tech is going to look for ahead of time. None of this really matters though because the teams, the only people who need to know, already know what the WoO is going to look for. It's only a secret to some people on this forum who think they're being robbed of some classified information.

we attended a WoO local race several years back, utilizing a 1" dished wing it was a wing we had figured was flat . after the measurement  the remainder of  tech they totally tore apart my car, being in a field filler position I was frustrated and begining to wonder what kinda whippin they thought a local ,part time hobbiest,  would put down for the night , its like taking a knife to a gun show, a 15 year old 410, 6 year old car ,  virtually no titanium, and a part time driver,   we purchase another wing and virtually threw away any point of breaking even for the night , steering hiems,wing, and mufflers we were prepared for our ass whippn , with $600 less in our pocket, anyway,  it was at that point I guained even less desire to run the local outlaw shows, so my question was, is the direction of tecking evolved in the areas worthy of debate, or does politics play route in its outcome? im not going to point fingers but my thoughts are this,  is the 15 really that good, or is the rest of the talents really that bad?, there is some awfully big money and big wheel men on the tour besides the 15, im in hopes the 49 puts a dark cloud in the air this year.

I have been following this thread and reading all the posts for days. And getting a bunch of laughs out of it.

After the race is over weight, tires, fuel are checked. I have watched it at a lot of the west coast races.

What is checked before the races go to woosprints.com and look at the rules. Or even the knoxville track site and look at the rules. Make a spread sheet, type in each part that is listed to be checked during tech.

Engines easy to check, use the engine checker it is within being .5 to 1% of being correct. Also how many teams these days build there own engines? None, since Kinser move over to Stewarts team. So could you see the haw haw on here that engine builder xxx built an over size engine for blank team.

Chassis the same thing who builds there own chassis? Not many besides easy to check for size and thickness. Sizes are listed in the rules.

Tires Someone wrote Super Dirt Late Models and tires. The tires were more mest with when you had to run a D55 compound. But most of the groups,  WoO and Lucas oil give 2 or 3 compounds to use at any race. No need to soften them. Sprint Car tires how many times have you been to a race and at the end the right rear has very little tread on it. Almost every race that the track is dry.

Besides you would be an idiot after signing up as GOLD Member with the Outlaws and get caught cheating. You would be gone, fined and every time you came to race every part on your car would be check all night.

Oh the last WoO team dq'ed was S Kinser at Eldora and that was being light at the scales giving the win the S Swindell. S Kinser got a win from S Swindell for the same reason weight.

You got your answer 5 times but I guess you didn't like it so you then accused Jonny Gibson of being in on a conspiracy with the Woo to keep the teching hush hush. Then you use an "analogy" ,which must be a big word where your from, that is complete nonsense. Just because you use an analogy dosnt make it correct, you should change your name to racer goin back to school, because your a little slow on the pick up. Did you read how many folks said they have been reading through this getting a good laugh? Do you know who they are laughing at?