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Topic: "Die hard" fans help their sport Die Hard! Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 1 of 2   of  25 replies
egras
February 26, 2016 at 10:43:47 AM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3914
Reply

Listening to sports talk radio and watching nationally televised sports talk shows has made me realize what an ignorant bunch of selfish people "die hard" fans can be.  Two examples going on right now:  MLB and the NHL.  Both are suffering from very flat attendance figures and struggling TV numbers right now.  Even in years with growth it is only minor and is not keeping up with the directions that they need to be going. 

So now what?  I was told in business "Change or Die", weren't you?  The NHL needs to increase scoring which is at an all time low.  Goalies are more athletic than ever and defense is now priority number 1.  Many in the NHL are suggesting a slight increase in the size of the net.  Makes sense, doesn't it?  Maybe its not the answer but if the new generation--the generation that is going to be buying tickets and getting their kids and grandkids into hockey--want more scoring, then you had better get off your ass and figure out how to get more scoring.   How do you think this is going over with the "die hard" crowd?  Not good from my observations.  Constant phone calls and interviews from old school fans that cannot believe that they may have to deal with change.

MLB is going through the same crisis on their problem is the fact that fans are starting to get turned off by the length of the games.  There is a combination of both increase in game time and decrease in attention span.  You know what the number 1 message I received from "die-hard" baseball fans that didn't want anything changed was?  "If they don't like how long the games are, let them stay home".  Do you think that is really what the MLB wants?  People to stay home?

So, there is a parallel between these two sports and what is going on in sprint car racing.  I see constant change going on and it seems to really offend people who are used to seeing the same old thing since they started going to the races decades ago.  Well, I have news for all of the "die-hard" sprint car fans:  change is needed for your sport each and every year--or it will die, hard!   The regulating bodies of every sport (including sprint car racing) should have two things on their mind every year at the very top of their lists:  1.  Safety of the fans and athletes    2.  Putting the maximum number of butts in the seats every year.   When either one of those two issues needs attention, everything possible should be done to address those two issues-period.  Regardless of those who hate change and think they (the governing bodies) are out to ruin things for you.

Everyone picks on NASCAR--even me--but at least they are trying by making changes every single year!  Trying-not necessarily making everyone happy but trying by implementing changes constantly.  Everyone quit being so worried about how something is not like it was last year and realize that they are just TRYING to make things better in all cases.  Some may work, some may not.  Quit being a "DIE HARD"!




YungWun24
February 26, 2016 at 11:39:40 AM
Joined: 01/19/2009
Posts: 1179
Reply

Great thoughts EGRAS....

As a fan that has been attending sprint car races for 30 years now, I think how can we make racing more exciting and get the younger generation more involved,  and interested such a niche sport.

Since I attend Knoxville on a regular basis, I'll use them as an example. I see more promoting of late, and I think this year kids get in free every weekend? That's awesome to see and really helps out families, which in turn will get more butts in the seats. They throw tee shirts out, and other swag. Get the drivers up in the stands etc. I think all of that is great,  but I know it annoys, the ones that go there just for the racing. 

I am a traditionalist and love every thing about sprint car racing's format...at Knoxville. However when I get my wife to go, and my son someday, she hates the time trials. I like it b/c I get to see the different lines, guys take and how fast some can go with no one around them, and then compare that to the actual racing. However, as a casual fan, I can see how boring that can be. Or how long it takes some tracks to get all the cars back up and running after a yellow or red flag. Would the sport benefit from sprints actually having starters? eeeeeek! 

I know how spoiled we can be at Knoxville; the track, quality of racers, number of cars, no stock cars, track prep, the facility, everything is #1 in my mind, but I wish that there was more activities or displays on the concourse as you enter the track. Get some drivers down there, with a car, somebody doing face painting, someone helping kids or even adults change a right rear. 

Why not have a large educational display explaining the format of the night, general info about sprint cars, why they're push started, why the driver needs to turn the wheels to the right, why the large wings... these are all questions I've been asked by a friends I've taken. 

One thing I likee about Nascar is you can easily see on most, who the driver is. Some sprint car drivers have this on the wing, but this really helps when trying to point out specific drivers. 

I think Knoxville started doing this the last coupel of years is to associate the cars with the drivers face. This needs improved upon.... 

Can we put live cameras in the cockpits, and on cars, and have a live feed to show, on tracks that have the capabilities during the actual race? 

I know my rant goes beyond changing the format or but all improvements that I think can enhance and or get more people interested in the sport we all love. 


Keep It Real

Johnny Utah
February 26, 2016 at 11:40:06 AM
Joined: 07/15/2014
Posts: 1221
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on February 26 2016 at 10:43:47 AM

Listening to sports talk radio and watching nationally televised sports talk shows has made me realize what an ignorant bunch of selfish people "die hard" fans can be.  Two examples going on right now:  MLB and the NHL.  Both are suffering from very flat attendance figures and struggling TV numbers right now.  Even in years with growth it is only minor and is not keeping up with the directions that they need to be going. 

So now what?  I was told in business "Change or Die", weren't you?  The NHL needs to increase scoring which is at an all time low.  Goalies are more athletic than ever and defense is now priority number 1.  Many in the NHL are suggesting a slight increase in the size of the net.  Makes sense, doesn't it?  Maybe its not the answer but if the new generation--the generation that is going to be buying tickets and getting their kids and grandkids into hockey--want more scoring, then you had better get off your ass and figure out how to get more scoring.   How do you think this is going over with the "die hard" crowd?  Not good from my observations.  Constant phone calls and interviews from old school fans that cannot believe that they may have to deal with change.

MLB is going through the same crisis on their problem is the fact that fans are starting to get turned off by the length of the games.  There is a combination of both increase in game time and decrease in attention span.  You know what the number 1 message I received from "die-hard" baseball fans that didn't want anything changed was?  "If they don't like how long the games are, let them stay home".  Do you think that is really what the MLB wants?  People to stay home?

So, there is a parallel between these two sports and what is going on in sprint car racing.  I see constant change going on and it seems to really offend people who are used to seeing the same old thing since they started going to the races decades ago.  Well, I have news for all of the "die-hard" sprint car fans:  change is needed for your sport each and every year--or it will die, hard!   The regulating bodies of every sport (including sprint car racing) should have two things on their mind every year at the very top of their lists:  1.  Safety of the fans and athletes    2.  Putting the maximum number of butts in the seats every year.   When either one of those two issues needs attention, everything possible should be done to address those two issues-period.  Regardless of those who hate change and think they (the governing bodies) are out to ruin things for you.

Everyone picks on NASCAR--even me--but at least they are trying by making changes every single year!  Trying-not necessarily making everyone happy but trying by implementing changes constantly.  Everyone quit being so worried about how something is not like it was last year and realize that they are just TRYING to make things better in all cases.  Some may work, some may not.  Quit being a "DIE HARD"!



Good points.  I would caution against two things though, and that's change for change's sake, or changing things because you're whoring yourself out for the nearest dollar.  I think thats what rubs me, and a lot of fans the wrong way with NASCAR (full disclosure; I still watch).  They are chasing the almighty TV dollar, which is their prerogative, but TV demands close finishes and "drama".  NASCAR has gone out of their way to change things (points systems, aero package, caution clocks) in order to maufacture drama, and the die-hards can see right through it.  

If you change something and the sport seems to benefit from it, great.  People will adapt to it and eventually it will become part of their new "normal."  Don't just change things, in order to change things.

 




Speedbump
February 26, 2016 at 11:43:35 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1461
Reply

I have long held the opinion that those who frequent internet message boards and fan sights should NOT be listened to in regards to changes in the sport.   By definition WE are already going to the races,  buy tickets and support the sport.   The whole trick is to encourage and retain the "marginal" or "casual" fan....for every 1 person that posts on or even just  browses Hoseheads there are 100,000 potential ticket buyers who do not.   I believe the trick is to get the interest of a small fraction of those and make them say WOW!! and HOLY CRAP!   a few times each night (for whatever reason) so that they go home and to work and talk about what a great time they had and how they can't wait to go back.    

 

Unfortunately for us it is getting harder to create a WOW factor moment in today's society.  



sc lm race fan
February 26, 2016 at 01:26:15 PM
Joined: 01/27/2005
Posts: 411
Reply

As I have said for years your LOCAL track is that local drivers male or female. Fans come to see that drive as a family member, friend, sponcer, car owner, pit crew person. So less driver less fans. Also more people go into the pits than in the past. It used tobe woman and  kids set in the main stands. Now most are in the pits.

Only World of Outlaws, King of the West, Allstarts and the new National Sprint League have casual fans. Only go to the races when they are in town. Also add ASCS 360 cars to this also.

Non-wing cars 410 or 360 are getting more of a following than they used to have when it went to wings. The wing cars are most of the time fast but follow the leader even in the mains. Passing only on restarts (sucks) and in lapped cars that are running the faster line and leader gets to them at the wrong part of the track.

Now for NHL, MLB went on strike. Wanted more of the TV money. I went I won't watch hope you like your TV money. Also goalies have got bigger and with more pads not much scoring. Baseball who are the players and how many drugs have they used. It also used to be there was one game on Saturdays with the very good teams. Also the pitchers have gotten taller so they throw closer to the plate. Most of the time less scoring.

Back to your local dirt track we have mist the 25 to 45 year olds. Most fans are 50 or older in the main stands and 25 and younger in the pits as drivers and pit crew.

Kids now driver for mom and dad then hit mid 20's and go off to collage and quit racing.



oswald
February 26, 2016 at 02:05:39 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on February 26 2016 at 10:43:47 AM

Listening to sports talk radio and watching nationally televised sports talk shows has made me realize what an ignorant bunch of selfish people "die hard" fans can be.  Two examples going on right now:  MLB and the NHL.  Both are suffering from very flat attendance figures and struggling TV numbers right now.  Even in years with growth it is only minor and is not keeping up with the directions that they need to be going. 

So now what?  I was told in business "Change or Die", weren't you?  The NHL needs to increase scoring which is at an all time low.  Goalies are more athletic than ever and defense is now priority number 1.  Many in the NHL are suggesting a slight increase in the size of the net.  Makes sense, doesn't it?  Maybe its not the answer but if the new generation--the generation that is going to be buying tickets and getting their kids and grandkids into hockey--want more scoring, then you had better get off your ass and figure out how to get more scoring.   How do you think this is going over with the "die hard" crowd?  Not good from my observations.  Constant phone calls and interviews from old school fans that cannot believe that they may have to deal with change.

MLB is going through the same crisis on their problem is the fact that fans are starting to get turned off by the length of the games.  There is a combination of both increase in game time and decrease in attention span.  You know what the number 1 message I received from "die-hard" baseball fans that didn't want anything changed was?  "If they don't like how long the games are, let them stay home".  Do you think that is really what the MLB wants?  People to stay home?

So, there is a parallel between these two sports and what is going on in sprint car racing.  I see constant change going on and it seems to really offend people who are used to seeing the same old thing since they started going to the races decades ago.  Well, I have news for all of the "die-hard" sprint car fans:  change is needed for your sport each and every year--or it will die, hard!   The regulating bodies of every sport (including sprint car racing) should have two things on their mind every year at the very top of their lists:  1.  Safety of the fans and athletes    2.  Putting the maximum number of butts in the seats every year.   When either one of those two issues needs attention, everything possible should be done to address those two issues-period.  Regardless of those who hate change and think they (the governing bodies) are out to ruin things for you.

Everyone picks on NASCAR--even me--but at least they are trying by making changes every single year!  Trying-not necessarily making everyone happy but trying by implementing changes constantly.  Everyone quit being so worried about how something is not like it was last year and realize that they are just TRYING to make things better in all cases.  Some may work, some may not.  Quit being a "DIE HARD"!



Not too smart if you think "die hard" fans are used to seeing the same thing they saw decades ago! When I started going there were narrow tires, bolt on roll cages, no wings, etc. There have been massive changes in sprint car racing since " decades ago ". Just recently they mandated everyone use the same brand of tire. Then run only 1 rt rear all night. Did away with adjustable wickerbills. Limited the size of wickerbills. Changed the rules on the dish allowed in the top wings. I think the only cockpit adjustable thing legal now is the wing.

Us old die hards have seen a lot of change and are still die hard fans. None of the die hards that I have known over the years ever quit going to the races because some changes were made. Most new fans become fans because they were taken to a their first race by a "die hard" fan. Done it many times myself. My "die hard" buddy drives to Knoxville from Kansas City every Saturday. When he stops being a "die hard" he will stop making that drive every weekend. 

 

 

I'm sure the NHL could widen the goal by a few inches and some folks would say they did nothing because they wanted it widened by a foot & a half and blame the die hard fans for the NHL not doing enough.




blazer00
February 26, 2016 at 02:30:42 PM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
Reply

Anytime a sport, or any business for that matter sees a downward trend, the key to reversing that trend is to properly identify the primary problem. In sprint car racing I think it's pretty obvious...the cost involved for the participant. In all other professional sports the athlete is paid upfront and paid well. In sprint car racing the team survives on the dollars generated from sponsors and purses, the driver primarily survives on purses won, and some of the top drivers of course attract their own sponsors, also. But the grass roots drivers that own their own cars or the small individual car owners face a more severe uphill battle in both regards...sponsorship and earning a decent purse. In all sports those that rise to the top have a background in their sport...but most athletes in other sports can make it without much personal investment. They are all competing in an arena that stays the same size wherever they participate as they develop, so it is talent alone that gets them to the highest level in their sport. It's simple, a baseball glove is a baseball glove regardless what level of play. Not so in racing. It takes a lot of money to make it in racing today. And the more success that is achieved, the higher the investment escalates. That being said, what opportunity really exists for the local driver today that doesn't have the silver spoon to advance to the next level? That's where the growth in sprint car racing has to come from. Maybe the IMCA RaceSaver 305's will make a difference but it's too early to tell. I do know this, the racing is less competitive today than it has ever been and it's a hell of a lot more costly. Way to costly! That can be managed. Sorry, but todays $60,000.00-900 HP engines is definately one of the culprits, and is actually adding to the fact that today's sprint car racing is less competitive and entertaining. I'm a long time fan and live with it, but what about a new fan? 



Neisteadt
February 26, 2016 at 03:21:05 PM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 78
Reply

I don't like posting here a whole lot but I like this topic, so here it goes.

What I really can't stand when at a track and they're obviously trying something new, you'll have that pocket of fans that just can't help but shout something derogatory or filled with obscenities. 

The NSL, for example, tried in 2015 to put a face and personality with the cars on the track.  The drivers would work with kids in front of the crowd, do a short interview, then there was a draw and the night went on.  Yes, some nights the draw took a little longer than I think the planners wanted, but usually there was track prep to be done at the same time, so draw/interviews or not, there was going to be a 20 minute break.

But as this happened and kids were meeting drivers and developing potentially favorite drivers, it was almost guaranteed you’d hear something like “Shut the *$^#* up and just race!”

One, that fan isn’t going to change the time of that night’s activities. Two, he likely just made some potentially new fan around him/her feel alienated and uncomfortable and decreased the likelihood of that fan attending in the future.

We’re all in this together.  We have to take the good with the bad.  We can’t just take to social media and cause a stir when the track takes rubber but say nothing when they bang the wall and exchange the lead on the final lap. 

I know it’s been said many times, but many times those who think they’re the biggest fan are truly the worst enemy of the sport. 



JCWRacing10
February 26, 2016 at 03:56:10 PM
Joined: 12/03/2009
Posts: 69
Reply

Alot of it isn't about "making it more exciting"  the races are just as exciting as ever.  Yes there are some nights that are better than others, but thats with anything.  What needs to be focused on is making it easier to follow, and a priority to people.  Make them want to be there every week.  What is going on these days is there are so many things to do as compared to 20+ years ago, that each track needs to compete with.  Making changes sometimes chases away the core fans that helped build it to what it is today.

Everybody involved needs to do their best do market it to new audiences and let those new fans know they are not going to find anything else as exciting. 




fiXXXer
February 26, 2016 at 05:33:46 PM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
Reply
This message was edited on February 26, 2016 at 05:36:23 PM by fiXXXer
Reply to:
Posted By: JCWRacing10 on February 26 2016 at 03:56:10 PM

Alot of it isn't about "making it more exciting"  the races are just as exciting as ever.  Yes there are some nights that are better than others, but thats with anything.  What needs to be focused on is making it easier to follow, and a priority to people.  Make them want to be there every week.  What is going on these days is there are so many things to do as compared to 20+ years ago, that each track needs to compete with.  Making changes sometimes chases away the core fans that helped build it to what it is today.

Everybody involved needs to do their best do market it to new audiences and let those new fans know they are not going to find anything else as exciting. 



Exactly. The key is getting people to the track. Sprint car racing sells itself. I've seen it happen countless times over the years. Just about everyone I've ever taken to a sprint car race has become a fan. Sure there's some things that could possibly be done better but as a whole, our sport is just fine the way it is. The old saying goes: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." The last thing we need to do is change shit just for the sake of change. When everything is always changing, it's hard to keep up with. Making potential fans chase a moving target isn't smart and won't do a thing to build a fan base. Like you said, there's a lot of other things to do and people will just go spend their money elsewhere. Also, that will chase off the die hards. NASCAR has done just that and look at where its got them. Sure they still are the biggest Motorsport in America but they're not growing at all nowadays, they're headed the other way and its because they're always changing things that don't need changed and it just keeps getting more an more boring over time. Their die hards are all but gone and people as a whole are following it less and less. There's a reason why there's bleachers being installed at a couple of Central PA dirt tracks that used to be at NASCAR tracks. The best thing we can do is, improve what needs to be improved and leave the rest alone but more importantly, we as fans need to continue to introduce people to sprint car racing as much as we can.



oswald
February 26, 2016 at 08:40:17 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
Reply

Just because you're a die hard fan does not mean you resist all change.

How about all those who post about lower attendance and fewer new fans take someone to the races that has never been to one before? A different person every week? Like fixxer says, the racing will sell itself.

Mr egras makes It sound like The Die Hard fans are a problem. Well, no sport survives without the die hard fans. 



revjimk
February 26, 2016 at 08:44:25 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on February 26 2016 at 10:43:47 AM

Listening to sports talk radio and watching nationally televised sports talk shows has made me realize what an ignorant bunch of selfish people "die hard" fans can be.  Two examples going on right now:  MLB and the NHL.  Both are suffering from very flat attendance figures and struggling TV numbers right now.  Even in years with growth it is only minor and is not keeping up with the directions that they need to be going. 

So now what?  I was told in business "Change or Die", weren't you?  The NHL needs to increase scoring which is at an all time low.  Goalies are more athletic than ever and defense is now priority number 1.  Many in the NHL are suggesting a slight increase in the size of the net.  Makes sense, doesn't it?  Maybe its not the answer but if the new generation--the generation that is going to be buying tickets and getting their kids and grandkids into hockey--want more scoring, then you had better get off your ass and figure out how to get more scoring.   How do you think this is going over with the "die hard" crowd?  Not good from my observations.  Constant phone calls and interviews from old school fans that cannot believe that they may have to deal with change.

MLB is going through the same crisis on their problem is the fact that fans are starting to get turned off by the length of the games.  There is a combination of both increase in game time and decrease in attention span.  You know what the number 1 message I received from "die-hard" baseball fans that didn't want anything changed was?  "If they don't like how long the games are, let them stay home".  Do you think that is really what the MLB wants?  People to stay home?

So, there is a parallel between these two sports and what is going on in sprint car racing.  I see constant change going on and it seems to really offend people who are used to seeing the same old thing since they started going to the races decades ago.  Well, I have news for all of the "die-hard" sprint car fans:  change is needed for your sport each and every year--or it will die, hard!   The regulating bodies of every sport (including sprint car racing) should have two things on their mind every year at the very top of their lists:  1.  Safety of the fans and athletes    2.  Putting the maximum number of butts in the seats every year.   When either one of those two issues needs attention, everything possible should be done to address those two issues-period.  Regardless of those who hate change and think they (the governing bodies) are out to ruin things for you.

Everyone picks on NASCAR--even me--but at least they are trying by making changes every single year!  Trying-not necessarily making everyone happy but trying by implementing changes constantly.  Everyone quit being so worried about how something is not like it was last year and realize that they are just TRYING to make things better in all cases.  Some may work, some may not.  Quit being a "DIE HARD"!



I hate to turn this into another "Altman" thing, but exactly what changes are you suggesting?

Its not about "Change vs. no change", but whether any specific change will help




maddog53
February 27, 2016 at 09:00:59 AM
Joined: 03/18/2008
Posts: 1474
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on February 26 2016 at 08:44:25 PM

I hate to turn this into another "Altman" thing, but exactly what changes are you suggesting?

Its not about "Change vs. no change", but whether any specific change will help



You had to mention that a$$ clown on a good topic.  Haven't heard from him in awhile and now you probably woke him up.    EGRAS......Good post.  I know of a great way to raise the scoring in the NHL........Have Brent Seabrook play every minute.      



egras
February 27, 2016 at 11:39:08 AM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3914
Reply

Great points by everyone--even the few that completely disagree with me!

1.  Yes all sports need die hards--but they also need new blood or you die

2.  Time trials don't bother me.  I like a long night of racing.  However, I can think of two reasons many hate it.  First, some older fans and very young fans can't make a 6 hour show!  Second, I cannot tell you how many new fans I bring to their first ever sprint car race and they are totally turned off in the first hour because they keep asking "How many cars are there left to qualify?" or "how long til they start racing?"  This isn't all about what I like.

3.  I have said forever-don't change what ain't broken.  But I may be wrong.  For years, NASCAR did almost nothing.  Why?  Fastest growing sport in the nation for 10 years plus!  5-10 years ago?  It was identified (too late mind you) that a change was needed--NOW! 

4.  Oswald--every point you made was spot on.  But in the end, you actually verified everything I was trying to point out.  Every change was made.  Every change helped in one way or another to make the sport better and if it didn't I'm sure it was discontinued.  But along the entire way was almost certainly a group of die hard fans bitching the whole way. 

5. For anyone to argue my points with the argument that too many of these sanctioning bodies worry nothing about money and then have it followed up by someone else stating that the costs of racing are the problem.  ???   (Insert Crickets here)  Without the promotors, tracks and sanctioning bodies worried about the bottom line, YOU HAVE NOTHING!!!!!!!  So you'd better hope they are worried about their bottom line is number 2 on the list (see my above post--butts in the seats) right behind driver and fan safety!

 

Are the races as exciting as ever?  Hell yes, to me they are!  I love 'em.  I don't sit there and bitch when tweeks are make  though.  It's all for the good.  Let the WOO sort out the pill draw and invert.  Are they not allowed to experiment within their business?  Let the NSL bring the drivers to the crowd and to the kids if they think they are brining up their next generation of fans.  Too many times the answer to "why can't we do that" is "because this is the way we always did it". 



oswald
February 27, 2016 at 03:08:45 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on February 27 2016 at 11:39:08 AM

Great points by everyone--even the few that completely disagree with me!

1.  Yes all sports need die hards--but they also need new blood or you die

2.  Time trials don't bother me.  I like a long night of racing.  However, I can think of two reasons many hate it.  First, some older fans and very young fans can't make a 6 hour show!  Second, I cannot tell you how many new fans I bring to their first ever sprint car race and they are totally turned off in the first hour because they keep asking "How many cars are there left to qualify?" or "how long til they start racing?"  This isn't all about what I like.

3.  I have said forever-don't change what ain't broken.  But I may be wrong.  For years, NASCAR did almost nothing.  Why?  Fastest growing sport in the nation for 10 years plus!  5-10 years ago?  It was identified (too late mind you) that a change was needed--NOW! 

4.  Oswald--every point you made was spot on.  But in the end, you actually verified everything I was trying to point out.  Every change was made.  Every change helped in one way or another to make the sport better and if it didn't I'm sure it was discontinued.  But along the entire way was almost certainly a group of die hard fans bitching the whole way. 

5. For anyone to argue my points with the argument that too many of these sanctioning bodies worry nothing about money and then have it followed up by someone else stating that the costs of racing are the problem.  ???   (Insert Crickets here)  Without the promotors, tracks and sanctioning bodies worried about the bottom line, YOU HAVE NOTHING!!!!!!!  So you'd better hope they are worried about their bottom line is number 2 on the list (see my above post--butts in the seats) right behind driver and fan safety!

 

Are the races as exciting as ever?  Hell yes, to me they are!  I love 'em.  I don't sit there and bitch when tweeks are make  though.  It's all for the good.  Let the WOO sort out the pill draw and invert.  Are they not allowed to experiment within their business?  Let the NSL bring the drivers to the crowd and to the kids if they think they are brining up their next generation of fans.  Too many times the answer to "why can't we do that" is "because this is the way we always did it". 



Sorry dude, but I  have heard many new fans bitch when changes are made too! It's not just the die hard, long time fans that do. Everyone has an opinion. And they all think they are right whether anyone else agrees or not. No matter what is done, some people will be against it. 

But it is totally wrong to say it is always the die hard fans that bitch when changes are made.

Lose the "die hard" fans and the sport will "die easy" and FAST! If a very unpopular change is made that drives away the die hards there will not be new fans made fast enough to replace them and then "you die"! Ask around. Most fans were either brought to the races by their parents as children or by a friend when they were older. You don't find many who just saw an ad for racing and decided to go and got hooked. Mostly 1 generation of die hards create the next generation of fans.

You ended your post saying quit being a die hard. Well, if I do that that means I quit making all the long drives to races. How does that help the sport? How many non die hard fans drive 5 hours to watch a race, 5 hours home, get 2 hours sleep & get up and go to work?

 

 




egras
February 27, 2016 at 07:58:55 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3914
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on February 27 2016 at 03:08:45 PM

Sorry dude, but I  have heard many new fans bitch when changes are made too! It's not just the die hard, long time fans that do. Everyone has an opinion. And they all think they are right whether anyone else agrees or not. No matter what is done, some people will be against it. 

But it is totally wrong to say it is always the die hard fans that bitch when changes are made.

Lose the "die hard" fans and the sport will "die easy" and FAST! If a very unpopular change is made that drives away the die hards there will not be new fans made fast enough to replace them and then "you die"! Ask around. Most fans were either brought to the races by their parents as children or by a friend when they were older. You don't find many who just saw an ad for racing and decided to go and got hooked. Mostly 1 generation of die hards create the next generation of fans.

You ended your post saying quit being a die hard. Well, if I do that that means I quit making all the long drives to races. How does that help the sport? How many non die hard fans drive 5 hours to watch a race, 5 hours home, get 2 hours sleep & get up and go to work?

 

 



Oswald--thank you for pointing that out for me.  I did not mean die hard in the sense that you mean.  By your denition, I am also a die hard fan.  And not just in racing but many other sports and many other teams.  Die hard fans are a huge part of their respective sports.

My issue is with--for lack of better words--the "leave my sport alone and go back to your sport" fans.   I have met these arrogant fans at every venue I have attended for every type of sport I have attended.  You know them--you start talking to them and the first thing they have to do is let you know how long they have been coming to this or that event and how dedicated they are and blah blah blah blah blah.  Then the next move is to begin the bitch fest about all of the changes that have taken place and why they can't leave this or that alone.  WHy are you here then?   I have had a lot of friends attend races with me that are just completely turned off by the whiny pricks they meet in the stands that claim to be "die hard" fans. 

Once again--what brought this on?  Listening to talk radio when discussing the NHL changing the width of the goal to help increase scoring and generate more interest in hockey from young fans who may not have the attention span of older fans.  All I heard all afternoon on this show was "I'm a purest--leave it alone", "we can't change that, it's the way its always been", "I like low scoring games better leave it alone", "the past records will be in jeopardy", and the list goes on.  Know what it reminds me of?  "We can't do open reds in sprint car racing, that's not what we do"    "I hate the new WOO qualifying system that's not the way its always been"     "Change is scary".  

My point was this--who is making these complaints?  I can tell you this, no casual fan is sitting on a sprint car forum making complaints about qualifying order, heats and dashes.  DIe hards are.

So, if you are a die hard that enjoys going to the races and trusts that the higher powers will continue to tweek to approach perfection, my thoughts we not meant to offend you.  And by all means, express your opinion. 

But if you are one of those that can do nothing but find fault in every single move  made by organizations like the NSL, the ALL-STARS or the WOO, like there is some kind of conspiracy going on, then maybe all involved would be better off if you took up golf and left the races to those that actually enjoyed their night out!

Oswald--see you at the races!  Not meant to be aimed at you!

 



oswald
February 27, 2016 at 11:17:12 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
Reply

Thank you! Most folks hear the term "die hard fan" and thinks of those that are there in the same seat every night early enough to see the water truck water the track. That is who I thought you were talking about. But you were really meaning the "lets stick with the 1985 rules" gang.

 

I have had many conversations with older long time fans like myself that start out just remembering days gone by then they start with how this and that change ruined the sport. I am a die hard fan, but not against progress. That said, I am not a fan of the WoO's new heat race format. If there is no passing in the heat with the fastest qualifiers starting in the second row I don't see how puting them in the first row is going to make heat races better. But I will say, if it turns out to be better or leads to better A mains I will gladly accept it.

 

Lets GOOOOO racing!!!!!!



revjimk
February 27, 2016 at 11:43:16 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on February 27 2016 at 11:17:12 PM

Thank you! Most folks hear the term "die hard fan" and thinks of those that are there in the same seat every night early enough to see the water truck water the track. That is who I thought you were talking about. But you were really meaning the "lets stick with the 1985 rules" gang.

 

I have had many conversations with older long time fans like myself that start out just remembering days gone by then they start with how this and that change ruined the sport. I am a die hard fan, but not against progress. That said, I am not a fan of the WoO's new heat race format. If there is no passing in the heat with the fastest qualifiers starting in the second row I don't see how puting them in the first row is going to make heat races better. But I will say, if it turns out to be better or leads to better A mains I will gladly accept it.

 

Lets GOOOOO racing!!!!!!



Right. Some changes are good & some are bad, & discussing it doesn't = "whining"

I'm a relatively new fan (5 yrs.), but becoming "diehard", travel to a lot of races, & my perspective is as soon as I start figuring it out (like formats) they change it, which can get confusing.

Like Oswald, I don't see how putting fast cars on the pole helps...

We'll see. I think we all have too much time on our hands & not enough "methanol fragrance".....




cubicdollars
February 28, 2016 at 08:00:39 AM
Joined: 02/27/2005
Posts: 4443
Reply

ASCS has done alright over the years. They have 1500 race teams, 5 or 6 regional series, a national series with a national sponsor Lucas Oil, a TV deal.

Can you imagine if the Outlaws would have just policed their own costs and wouldn't have split sprint car racing a part? Sprint car racing would be as big, if not bigger than late models.

The wrong people, the big race teams on all the deals, were calling the shots instead though. They are the ones who are causing Outlaw sprint car racing to "die hard" instead of prosper.

Now we find ourselves in an era of $70,000 race engines (according to Alan Krimes) even though our fans and sponsors are grassroots. Not a very good space to be in long term.

 


 

 

 

They don't even know how to spell sprint car much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com


egras
February 28, 2016 at 08:25:50 AM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3914
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on February 27 2016 at 11:17:12 PM

Thank you! Most folks hear the term "die hard fan" and thinks of those that are there in the same seat every night early enough to see the water truck water the track. That is who I thought you were talking about. But you were really meaning the "lets stick with the 1985 rules" gang.

 

I have had many conversations with older long time fans like myself that start out just remembering days gone by then they start with how this and that change ruined the sport. I am a die hard fan, but not against progress. That said, I am not a fan of the WoO's new heat race format. If there is no passing in the heat with the fastest qualifiers starting in the second row I don't see how puting them in the first row is going to make heat races better. But I will say, if it turns out to be better or leads to better A mains I will gladly accept it.

 

Lets GOOOOO racing!!!!!!



Correct--not liking something is different than running for the exits.  I have not witnessed a WOO show since this new format was implemented.  However, from what I have read, I don't like the sound of it either.  But, I will not alter my plans and I have faith that in the end, the right decision will be made with the heat race format.  That format will be a format that will give the fans the best show in the end so they keep buy tickets, bring their kids, etc. etc. etc.  Not questioning if you should or shouldn't like it--doesn't sound appealing to me.  Its the crowd that thinks they are doing it just to piss them off and change their sport for no reason but to piss them off.  Just like the wider hockey net.  Just like the time clock on the pitcher in MLB.  All ideas to improve their product that may or may not work. At least they aren't sitting on their hands cause lets face it, as each generation passes, the attention span gets less and less and less.  And I don't mean that as a negative.  The attention span of each generation has been getting less and less and less since the industrial revolution.  YOu were part of that negativity from your elders as well--keep that in mind.  Get in a time machine and take a teenager from 2016 back to a race in 1960 and I will guarantee you they will never step foot at a racetrack again.  A teenager from 1960 thought it was the most awesome thing he had ever seen!   Smile





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