Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

While sprint car racing is as healthy as ever, with talent from Pennsylvania to California, I believe for sprint car racing to reach the next level we could and should see a new business model front the WoO. With regional series like the NSL, ASCoC, the Posse, and California more teams can now make money or break even staying close to home. In my opinion the WoO could cut their schedule to around 70 and make their product more like events. Making stops for 2 or 3 day shows, maybe co sanction events for show up points. Kind of like the approach with the 3 day kings royal, badlands, national open, and knoxville... Higher ticket prices equals higher purses, more quality cars, higher car counts and maybe some more corporate money. Anyone else have thoughts.

That's an interesting concept you have there. If done correctly, (the purse, travel etc. would have to jive together perfectly) that could be a hell of a good idea. I'm not sure though. I basically only attend races in Central Pa so I can't really speak for other areas but from what I see, the current schedule meets the demand that's out there. But like I said, that's just looking at it from a distance. Not sure what kind of crowds they pull in other parts of the country but any WoO race I've been to always had a good crowd but I do think they may be getting to the point where they have too many races in Central Pa. They now have 9 races in Central Pa. I think that's the limit as far as how many we can support. Due to the weather we've yet to see if the 3 day National Open will pull "Outlaw" crowds each night (I don't personally think it will. I think Thursday night will be at least somewhat of a bust, just not sure how bad until it actually happens). Lincoln and Port Royal each have 1 show and then Williams Grove has 7. Outlaw races are significantly more expensive to attend and I know I for one, won't be able to afford to go to the National Open all 3 nights. Next year if the weather cooperates, I'll likely miss my first WoO show in Central Pa in many years and that will be the Thursday night race on National Open weekend. I'm sure there's many people just like me as well. Also, aside from the financial aspect of it, you never want something like WoO shows to become just another big race which I think may be starting to happen in Central Pa. To me its kinda like McDonalds and how they give people small doses of the McRib. They probably sell 3 times as many just by having them for a limited time once and awhile than they would if they put them on the menu all the time. I don't know what's in them and I don't care to know but I love the damn things so when they bring them back, they get my money. The Outlaws are kinda the same deal. When they come to town, it should ALWAYS feel like something special even in a sprint car rich region like Central Pa. so its in their best interests to keep it that way.

I agree with both comments on here , I still believe that teams can't continue to go with a long demanding schedule and racing more regionalized is the new trend , to cut costs and earn more money .

The only way to make any sport a viable, money making business venture these days is with a TV contract.  I don't know how hard WRG has looked for TV partners or whether sprint car racing makes any money on TV.  It would almost have to be purchased and used as an undercard either for NASCAR, IndyCar, or some other racing series.

I put together a business model for a national sprint car league with a national touring division and 4 regional divisions about a year ago.  (the only way I think you could make a national league work is to also have regional divisions).  16 full time members per division = 80 total members.

To be viable would have taken $3 Million a year in either series sponsors or TV money for the national tour (above and beyond operating revenues) and $2 M a year for each regional series.  So that's roughly $9M in corporate sponsors and/or TV money.  And honestly, even if you had the corporate dollars, I think you still need some sort of TV contract that covers both the national and regional divisions to attract and keep corporate sponsors happy and grow interest in sport.  Not to mention the exposure needed to find sponsors for the 80 team operating within the league.

I think it could be done, but honestly would take the right person or people, able to attract sponsors and TV in order to get it off the ground.  I think if Tony or a group, maybe Tony, Kyle, Kasey, Tod bought WoO and "united" 410 racing under a single sanctioning body it could be done.

I agree with what I'm reading here but I think your forgetting one thing, The WoO continues to be the most prestigious, highest level series in 410 sprint car racing. Bullshit you say, Well could Donny Schatz really be considered the best in the world without being the Outlaw champ. You talk to any driver in any division of sprint racing and ask them what their ultimate goal is and they will say racing with WoO.  As long as the drivers, owners, and fans recognize the WoO as the best in the business the WoO has nothing to worry about.  BTW Greg Wilson is the newest full time member, congrats!

I am as much a sprint car fan as anybody but from my perspective the WoO does not have the appeal it used to because it doesn't have have the marque names of Kinser, Wolfgang and Swindell. When the WoO was at it's height it was because people were flocking to see these legends. 

Alright! 

The yearly "the WoO business model has to change" thread!

They have 93 dates, tracks paying them $25k+ for them to sanction the races. 

The NSL and All Star deals are great, but they are not yet self sustaining business models. The business model there is "rich guy puts up a ton of money" Great for the sport, but the Woo is a bonafide business model that seems to be doing pretty well even without Steve.

Not everyone is as old as you, have you been to a WoO race lately? Fans are still flocking without Kinser, Swindell, and Wolfgang. Today folks are flocking to see future legends like, Schatz, Stewart, Pittman, and believe it or not underdogs like the Shark team. No matter how you slice it the WoO is still the top of the heap.

McRib supposedly contains 70 ingredients including something that keeps your tennis shoes white.  Another case of the stomach overruling the mind.  Enjoy the races.

Sprint car racing never has and never will "go to the next level".   The only thing we need now is the annual "why there isn't more sprint car racing on TV" thread...

Your  right but they have good drivers but there product is not what it should be , but fans are impressed by the speed of the cars .

This may happen with Lucas Oil expanding slowly , but TV  hasn't figured out how to bring it live entirely or maybe we would see more . Streaming is good but not the total answer  I think .

Your right but the fans are making this series I think because they pack the tracks .

Donny Schatz is a legend right now and he's still in his prime with many good years left to go. There's a good chance he'll eclipse Kinser's Knoxville record and he's going to put himself right up there with Kinser, Swindell and Wolfgang in pretty much every other meaningful category. He already has more championships than everyone other than Steve Kinser. I don't know when people are gonna start giving him the credit he deserves. He's going places we never thought anyone other than Kinser or Sammy would ever go and he isn't doing it against Troy Fraker every week either. He's out on the road with the best sprint car drivers in the world with Shane Stewart, Daryn Pittman, Joey Saldana, Brad Sweet etc. all trying as hard as ever to push him off the top of the mountain and yet he just keeps on winning like Kinser did back in the day. The big difference between Donny and Kinser is in the cars themselves. Steve always had the latest and greatest before anyone else did and the rule book was more like a magazine. Today, the rule book is about the size of the Bible and the cars are so close that it's almost ridiculous yet Schatz still manages to win 20+ races a year while everyone else considers just hitting double digits to be a great season. Steve and Sammy were great. Hell in my opinion, for their age, they still are but let's give today's drivers some credit. Especially Donny because like him or not, he's earned it.

trecraft,  Loved your comments concerning the McRib which I really enjoy.  Does  eating one or two automatically clean white tennis shoes or do you have to take them off and rub the sauce on them??   LOL  

The problem is sprint car racing in general does not get the money, sponsers, or respect that they deserve! I go to both local 360 and 410 races and World of Outlaw races for about 30 years. I live in Northern California and we have many tracks and races for most of the year and yet most people have no idea what a sprint car is or have never been to a race! I live 10 minutes near a track and my friends had no idea that there was racing every Saturday night! I think the most insulting thing is that Nascar gets all the money with sponsers and TV time, yet it is very boring to watch! Shoot Sprint should be the main sponser of the WoO, not Nascar! We all know how great sprint car racing is we just need to tell and show everone else by having races on TV, commercials, advertising, or any other means of promoting! Things are so bad that a friend thought my sprint car sticker was a space ship- true story! She thought i was some kind of Treke! Oh yeah and i think my uncle drives one of those things, ha ha sure! You mean you like to watch a car drive around in a circle that makes lots of noise and you get really dirty with a bunch of rednecks! Yup pretty much, but going to a race is soo much more and well its one of my favorite things to do on a Saturday night with my family! 

Looking forward to the new Golden State King of the 
West series schedule! 

Winged sprintcars = the fastest and most exciting 
racecars on dirt! 

Of course you're right,  but if nobody can challenge him consistently, its not so entertaining

I look at it a bit different. I like seeing history being made. I grew up hearing stories about Weld, Opperman, Mitch Smith, Smokey and all the guys who raced before I was born and I wish I could go back in time and watch those guys race just once. I grew up watching all the big names from the 90's and 2000's and even if it got a little predictable seeing Rahmer win all the time or watching Mark Kinser come into Pa and dominate like he did, I still appreciate the fact that I got to see them in their prime. I see Schatz the same way. He's doing things right now that will be talked about for as long as sprint cars exist and I'm glad to say I got to see some of that greatness in person. Don't get me wrong, when the WoO tow into Central Pa, I'm ALWAYS hoping to see a Posse guy take the money but I don't leave disappointed if Schatz wins because like I said, I feel fortunate to be able to see one of the top 3 greatest of all time do things with a sprint car that few others can or have ever been able to do. I do think we're going to see Shane Stewart put some heat on him and I have no doubt Pittman will return to form and depending on how things work out with the Roth 83, Saldana could become a real force again as well. He's certainly capable. I don't see any of them permanently dethroning Schatz but it definitely won't get any easier for him.

Well said MrFixxer  , yes the early days were special with Weld , Allen, Smith , Paxton,Opperman and more becuase there were not as many rules , more innovations and more reasons why it was a great time . But today is good as well and yes we could see better racing on the rise with Schatz,Saldana, Pittman and Stewart becoming more of a threat to Schatz.

Not sure about big tv deals. Tv can also kill track attendance etc.  You gotta be careful with that double edged sword.