Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Please read BillW's post about TKS motorsports first season. Troy Renfro has some things to say about wing angle rules, new tire rules, etc. He says all those things will just cost owners money. Very interesting indeed.

So how is a wing angle rule that costs all teams more money and tire rules that cost all teams more money going to help the sport? They may help the teams that can handle the extra expense after putting a bunch of low buck teams out of business. Then the resulting lower car counts will lower attendance leading to lower purses. 

Making every team in the country spend more will not help anything.

You talk like a wing angle rule is easy and cost free. But it is not.

Renfro'sRenfro's quote is from a few days ago. You post quotes from 12 years ago.

Renfro'sRenfro's is a good read. Funny the only thing he complains about is SHOCKS. It shows where the biggest problem is shocks. We have gone to such a personalised shock package that only one car runs this shock and if we make a change for the better it costs money. It used to be if you ran a PRO, AFCO, PENSKE, etc. You could go to any team that ran that type shock and the dampening was real close on the same valving of shock.

Wing angle is about as free as it gets. Most teams have adj. shocks. The ones that don't have alot of shocks in the trailer. I'm for a rev chip but anything that helps would be a step in the right direction. and before you ask I own part of a local 410 team. thanks

Was not complaining about shocks, sorry if you took it that way didn't think it sounded that way when I first heard about the less wing angle thing the first thing that I thought of was  I would have to change some things on my shocks to make that work    so that cost's money

Roy

Do you have off the self shock's or custom ones? Most of the WoO, All Stars, Knoxville regulars have very custom shocks.

All have a shock dyno in the trailer. 

Thanks Otto

I guess I am not to bright, how does a wing  angle rule cost you more money????  I can see tires if you have to buy all new narrower rims.

According to Troy Renfro the first thing he thinks when someone says wing angle rule is that means he'll need a new shock package.

I think I will believe a former WoO crew chief for several successfully teams & current team owner over an anonymous message board poster. Keep cutting and pasting decade old quotes to back up you ideas.

Please list your credentials. You own a 410  team? Crew chief for any winning  WoO teams? I'm just quoting a man that has done both of those things. He is paying the bills for a 410 team, not just an Internet connection.

And late models have limited lates, crate motor lates, 2 barrel lates, etc.

Please answer my question. Have you done it or are you just a cut and paste keyboard commando! 

Brad Doty "At one time the late models had wedge bodies and plexiglas wings and sideboards all over them and they also used a big soft floppy right rear tire. When they finally outlawed the wedge bodies and went to the harder and smaller tire, the racing arguably got a whole lot better."

Having crewed on Super Late Model that ran both as a board car and a Late Model. You needed the big right rear to get of of the right rear in entry or the car was to tight. One week it would be the board car next week the Late Model. change sprints and weight placement. The big right rear made the car loose with out the side board.

Been around Sprint cars from the late 70's early 80's. Cars had  302 and a 410 ci engine.the 302 cars had small 4' x 5' wings and no front wing... The wings had small side boards. Then bigger side boards up to todays 5' x 5' high left side low right side board wings.

What did the two car have that are the same? High left side boards.

Funny, you take a drive that won the week before with a wing ( Not the 2 Car ). And most of the time they run off the turn or almost or do hit the wall. Even with below changes. My RUDDER was missing. lol

Most people know the changes from wing to non-wing. Move right rear out from 16" to 20". Lower rear ride height down 1/2 to 1". Raise the front 1 to 1 1/2 " on ride height to start. Take stagger out from 16" to 12". Maybe change shocks.

So why do you need more stagger with a wing car than a non-wing car?  Car is tight on exit. And loose on entry.

Have to laugh when someone mentions complaining they might have to spend some money on some shocks for a change that might well make engines last longer.Theres a very good chance most racers already have the shocks they may need already,and shocks aren't a lasting part anyway,they need to be replaced or rebuilt often as they are,besides going thru some to to damage from accidents.A racer would make damn sure he would come up with 5 grand if a new part came out that gained you 15 hp.,but on the other hand will gripe about maybe having to buy some shocks,sounds pretty silly. 

So then the Late Model sanction time trials & puts the fast 1's right in front. So much for passing.

When I went to Attica last year & spent 30 bucks to watch the best of both worlds I couldn't believe it when they started a Bloomquist & others right up front in a 7 car heat. If I had known it was going to be like that I'd of ask to pay only 15 bucks for the sprints & walked round when the snoozers was out there & I like Late Models. I will not be back to that particular show.

The other thing was people were clapping for the heat that finished like they lined up & I said you people clap for that shit, the 2nd heat of sprints put on a fantastic show & I said now thats racing.

As for Doty's quote, I have seen tracks where late models can not pass but mods & hobby stocks put on a great show (if that's what you like). Sprints & late models like different kinds of tracks. Much like how non wing sprints are better on a heavier track while wing cars are better on a slick track. Brad is comparing apples to oranges.

And if anybody thinks the open Late Models are cheap they should ask Brian Birkhofer or Brady Smith what it costs to run one.  Oh, I'm sorry, they both got out of racing due to the costs.  Me bad! 

Stan Meissner

That's what I did. Quote a current owner and former WoO crew chief.

Sounds like Mr Slack wants teams to spend more money so he doesn't have to do good track prep. Who is going to pay the huge wind tunnel fee?

My point is...make the low budget teams spend too much money now to save money in the future and you will have less than 300 410's  in the country. And there is no reason to believe new owners will flock to the sport because it is a little cheaper.

Your experience is not evident but your cut & paste ability sure is. Was that 30 years spent sitting in the stands?

I wish you guys would point your energy towards improving the sport instead of deballing it. 

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

I have been to quite a few USA Nationals and trust me, these guys have spare power in their trailers and get on it pretty good for being bigger and heavier.  Our local Late Models are limited, think the difference is about the same as a 360 to a 410.  They have some pretty big specials in Minnesota, Wisconsin, North and South Dakota under the WISSOTA banner.  I believe that Schatz mostly runs WiSSOTA and whatever the club up by Grand Forks is escapes me but basically the same as WISSOTA and Cedar Lake's NASCAR dirt Late Models.  32 miles to weekly Late Models and we mostly have Sprint Specials so I still get to some fendered races. 

Actually got to know Brady Smith a little when I was heavier into the writing and he ran CLS pretty often in his WISSOTA days.  He emailed me one time trying to find out how to get ahold of someone for a Sprint Car shirt but can't recall what driver he was looking for.  Got a photo around here somewhere too of Scott Bloomquist from the early 2000's.  He had on jeans and a Stevie Smith shirt and offered to put on his driver suit because we were close to showtime but I said "don't bother, Scott in a Sprint shirt will be a classic." 

Stan Meissner