Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

All,

I was reading the Devil's Bowl thread and saw folks mentioning lap times and such and I began to wonder what is the difference in downforce from a flat topped 5x5 wing vs say a 2.5" dished 5x5 wing?

I saw the same post, and I really think people are looking too far into the lap times arguement. The 410 guys were running qualifying on a very greasy track. Not a lot of grip in comparison to when the surface gets a little more rolled in. There is a visable speed difference between 410s and 360s. 

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The track at Devils Bowl was not "greasy" at all.  It had good grip in the groove, however not at all greasy. In fact some cars late in the quals, went up top to find more grip.

Someone on here 3 or 4 years ago did a post using an airplane wing to caculate the up lift of a wing and turned it upside down for down force. It was like 50 to 75 lbs more for a dish than a flat wing. But the big deal is the wicker bill - Gurney flap on the back of the wing. Causes a lot of air turbulance coming off the back of the wing compaired to a dished wing.

If you go to race monitor and look up WoO at Devil's Bowl, the last I would say 3 or 4 cars are 360's. There time was 1 to 1.2 seconds slower than a WoO 410 fast time car. Most of the races the WoO run the last 3 or 4 cars are 360's. Some are ASCS others are open 360's.

Beings Knoxville runs 410's, 360's and 305's each race. I go to that tracks web site and look for Quailying times. Or other track's that also runs 410's, 360's, and a spec head 360, is Skagit Speedway in Washington. So looking at there times you can see what the time difference is.

Agreed.   I was in the pits with my brothers limited mod that was competing on the same surface that night.   There was nothing remotely greasy about that track during qualifying.    It wasn't greasy last year either when Joey Saldana ran a 14.03 in qualifying.    For that matter, the track record is only about .4 seconds faster than those times.    Given that, how greasy could it have been?   I seriously doubt Dakota Kid was even there....

Basically, people can think whatever they want though.   If they are happy thinking the 410s are "visibly" faster at Devils Bowl, then fine.   I agree that they are "visibly faster" at Knoxville because I've seen it myself.    Like I said though, Devils Bowl ain't Knoxville.   If these 410s are so much faster at the Bowl I sure as hell can't tell it.

I would attend an Outlaw show with a 360 under your hood! Then you can tell me after qualifiying if there was a big difference.

agreed, i have tried multiple times to clear up any missconseption of lap times from door cars to a sprint in general, (seems the "grudge" in my area is always there)  say your fastest latemodel in your area lays down a 14.950 lap, the sprinter lays down a 14.450 lap, seemingly the times dont seem far off, fast forward ten laps and watch the window of interval grow. not many can try put thier head around what actually is going on. I would bet money on this grudge match anyday, once the sprint is in free air, its basically over, now a strong calculation of times and handicap may be a intresting debate to race on, then it comes down to who make less mistakes as a driver, but still intresting.  

Years ago, Boone Iowa ran a few races with sprint cars (early 360s with 4x4, 18" sideboard wings), modifieds and hobby stocks. The sprints started two laps down and the modifieds one lap down. Mark Wilson told me that he and Danny Young ran 1,2 at the finish (Danny won). Imagine late models vs 410s would be about the same.

And I can tell you right now that either way I don't really give a rat's ass.     Either way you slice it or dice it, the bigger issue is not lap times or whether the 410s look faster to some people.   The bigger issue is that the racing sucks.    I saw the same single file freight train heat races this past Saturday that I almost always see during ASCS shows.    Maybe I'm not as good at judging the speed of freight trains as I think I am, but I just don't see any big difference in the speeds between these two freight trains!

Just outta curiosity Mr. Herring, were you at the Bowl this past Saturday?   How many shows have you seen at Devils Bowl?