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Topic: Top 10 most prestigious Sprint Car races in the country (slideshow) Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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gators0849
March 24, 2015 at 05:40:41 PM
Joined: 05/07/2013
Posts: 1991
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This message was edited on March 24, 2015 at 05:41:40 PM by gators0849

Slideshow of the top 10 most prestigious Sprint Car races in the country




staggerman
March 24, 2015 at 06:44:58 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 636
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Guess this list must only be 410 sprint races, some big 360 events, East Bay Winter Nationals, STN, 360 Knoxville Nationals, Canadian Natonals. JMO



Charles Nungester
March 24, 2015 at 08:25:27 PM
Joined: 06/01/2014
Posts: 255
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1 Oval nationals
2. 3 crown
3 -9   Indiana Sprint week
10 Indiana Midget week with sprints




dsc1600
March 24, 2015 at 09:53:34 PM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4373
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Posted By: Charles Nungester on March 24 2015 at 08:25:27 PM

1 Oval nationals
2. 3 crown
3 -9   Indiana Sprint week
10 Indiana Midget week with sprints



And the IOW crowd has been heard from Smile



gators0849
March 24, 2015 at 10:25:59 PM
Joined: 05/07/2013
Posts: 1991
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Posted By: staggerman on March 24 2015 at 06:44:58 PM

Guess this list must only be 410 sprint races, some big 360 events, East Bay Winter Nationals, STN, 360 Knoxville Nationals, Canadian Natonals. JMO



To me, wingless and 410 Sprint Car races are different animals. As for 360 races, I did consider them. Probably the most prestigious is the 360 nationals at Knoxville, and I just can't bring myself to put that event ahead of the ones on my list. That isn't a bias against them, I actually enjoy the 360 events I've been to. Thinking a couple of them — Trophy Cup, 360 Nationals — would be in that 11-20 range. 



dsc1600
March 24, 2015 at 10:26:52 PM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4373
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I think trophy cup is probably 8-10.




Dryslick Willie
March 25, 2015 at 05:46:47 AM
Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 2234
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This is strictly a matter of perspective once you get past the top three, which IMO the top three cannot be denied at all.   Personally I think the 360 Nationals and the Short Track Nationals are easily in the top ten, certainly more so than the Texas Outlaw Nationals and the current #10.   To me if no history is established then there is no real prestige. 



gators0849
March 25, 2015 at 09:39:29 AM
Joined: 05/07/2013
Posts: 1991
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Posted By: Dryslick Willie on March 25 2015 at 05:46:47 AM

This is strictly a matter of perspective once you get past the top three, which IMO the top three cannot be denied at all.   Personally I think the 360 Nationals and the Short Track Nationals are easily in the top ten, certainly more so than the Texas Outlaw Nationals and the current #10.   To me if no history is established then there is no real prestige. 



I struggled with the history of the Dirt Classic. The considerations were the Tuscarora 50 and the Trophy Cup. But, I went with the DC because of the drivers that show up, the direction the race is going and the positioning on the schedule. Tough call though.

As for the Texas deal at Devil's Bowl, I took into account the history at that speedway and what it has meant to Sprint Car racing.



Oakland Sprint Fan
March 25, 2015 at 10:02:26 AM
Joined: 04/14/2007
Posts: 1573
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This message was edited on March 25, 2015 at 10:24:46 AM by Oakland Sprint Fan

Here is my top 10 for all classes of sprint cars;

1) Kville Nationals

2) Kings Royal

3) National Open

4) Gold Cup

5) 67th annual Little 500

6) World Finals

7) Tulare Trophy Cup

8) Short Track Nationals

9) Don Martin Silver Cup

10) Ironman

* I did not include speedweeks due to races being held at a variety of tracks 

 


 

 

  


vande77
March 25, 2015 at 10:24:08 AM
Joined: 01/20/2005
Posts: 2079
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Maybe I just have a different view, but any race that has only existed 1 season doesn't even deserve mention (The Historical Big One at Eldora was a Huge Race, but if failed to gain traction (ie: fans in the stands) and Earl gave up on it after a while.  No one knows if the Texas Outlaw Nationals will see more than 5 years (and until it does, it doesn't even deserve mention in a Top 10 list IMO).

 

My Top 10 (no particular order)

Knoxville Nationals

King's Royal

WG National Open

4 Crown Nationals

Tropy Cup

World Finals (only because it's an event, the purses sure don't make it great for the competitors)

360 Nationals (again, because it's an event, the purses aren't great)

Short Track Nationals (ditto to above)

Perris Oval Nationals

Don Raper Memorial Dirt Cup

 

I miss the days when we actually had BIG RACES for sprint cars (at one time, the Silver Cup ($35,000 to win), Fram Dash ($65,000 to win), Historical Big One ($100,000 to win), Knoxville Nationals ($100,000 to win at that time), and King's Royal ($50,000 to win) all paid $35,000 or more to win and the Gold Cup and WG National Open were also Big Races backt then and had good purses.  I even remember Wolfgang winning $39,000 at Selingsgrove one year too - I think they have a photo in Lone Wolf. 

What happened?  Some of the races on Jeremy's top 10 list pay $12,000 to win and $800 to start.

 



gators0849
March 25, 2015 at 10:57:53 AM
Joined: 05/07/2013
Posts: 1991
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Posted By: vande77 on March 25 2015 at 10:24:08 AM

Maybe I just have a different view, but any race that has only existed 1 season doesn't even deserve mention (The Historical Big One at Eldora was a Huge Race, but if failed to gain traction (ie: fans in the stands) and Earl gave up on it after a while.  No one knows if the Texas Outlaw Nationals will see more than 5 years (and until it does, it doesn't even deserve mention in a Top 10 list IMO).

 

My Top 10 (no particular order)

Knoxville Nationals

King's Royal

WG National Open

4 Crown Nationals

Tropy Cup

World Finals (only because it's an event, the purses sure don't make it great for the competitors)

360 Nationals (again, because it's an event, the purses aren't great)

Short Track Nationals (ditto to above)

Perris Oval Nationals

Don Raper Memorial Dirt Cup

 

I miss the days when we actually had BIG RACES for sprint cars (at one time, the Silver Cup ($35,000 to win), Fram Dash ($65,000 to win), Historical Big One ($100,000 to win), Knoxville Nationals ($100,000 to win at that time), and King's Royal ($50,000 to win) all paid $35,000 or more to win and the Gold Cup and WG National Open were also Big Races backt then and had good purses.  I even remember Wolfgang winning $39,000 at Selingsgrove one year too - I think they have a photo in Lone Wolf. 

What happened?  Some of the races on Jeremy's top 10 list pay $12,000 to win and $800 to start.

 



I think a variety of things happened. The economy for one, but it isn't exclusive to that. Sponsors left (Fram). The Outlaws took over the Silver Cup and ruined it. 

Another reason is business related (Not that I agree with it): Why pay a big purse for a race when guys are going to show up anyway? This applies to weekly shows. Why up the winner's share or back through when you draw the same amount of cars with a smaller purse? Promoters aren't stupid. They see they can get 30-40 cars with a $4,000 to win show, the same as if it was $10K. 

As for my list, I didn't include wingless races. That last spot came down to the Trophy Cup, Tuscarora 50, Dirt Classic and 4-crown Nationals. Talked to a few drivers and went with what the race will develop into. Probably took a little bit of a liberty with that one.



dsc1600
March 25, 2015 at 10:59:40 AM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4373
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I don't think we've fallen off a cliff. Knoxville pays double (in total purse) what it did back in the early 90s.

Lernerville pays about what it did in total purse when it was 35k to win, just spread out.

National Open pays way more than it did in the 90s.

World Finals pays a total $250k+ purse, albeit only a portion for sprint cars.

We need the Gold Cup to come back to prominence. I wish it could be moved to a facility that can support it. Chico is a dump and is too small a grandstand to support such an event.




vande77
March 25, 2015 at 11:25:16 AM
Joined: 01/20/2005
Posts: 2079
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Posted By: gators0849 on March 25 2015 at 10:57:53 AM

I think a variety of things happened. The economy for one, but it isn't exclusive to that. Sponsors left (Fram). The Outlaws took over the Silver Cup and ruined it. 

Another reason is business related (Not that I agree with it): Why pay a big purse for a race when guys are going to show up anyway? This applies to weekly shows. Why up the winner's share or back through when you draw the same amount of cars with a smaller purse? Promoters aren't stupid. They see they can get 30-40 cars with a $4,000 to win show, the same as if it was $10K. 

As for my list, I didn't include wingless races. That last spot came down to the Trophy Cup, Tuscarora 50, Dirt Classic and 4-crown Nationals. Talked to a few drivers and went with what the race will develop into. Probably took a little bit of a liberty with that one.



I love how the "economy" is the go to reason.  Most of these races disappeared when the economy was going gangbusters in the early to mid-90's and things were great.  That excuse doesn't hold water for me, it's just that, an excuse.

Business related decisions I can believe, however most of these tracks that held those events have increased ticket prices during that same time when they were decreasing purses (and use the excuse of "less people are coming to the races".  Again, an excuse IMO. 

I sort of agree about car count and why pay more when you can get the same # of cars and pay out less, but what about FAN COUNT?  Once those races became "just another race", there are less fans coming to those events too (I attended all of the Fram Dashes held and at one time had the Lernerville Silver Cup on my bucket list (not anymore, it's just another stop on the WoO tour since they went to the current format)  Have been to the King's Royal (and plan on going again here in a couple years with my son), and have The World Finals on my bucket list now after they have PROVEN that they plan on doing it for the long haul. 

We have a severe LACK OF PROMOTION in sprint car racing.  Track Operators want to open the gates and expect people to flood in to watch.  If the track operators were PROMOTORS, they'd more than likely see their front gate increase instead of decrease yearly.  Instead, they raise ticket prices, complain because there are less people in the stands, and then cut the purses for teh competitors and then see car counts go down (which causes the cycle to repeat itself).  Sadly, they haven't learned that all those things are related to the fact that they don't PROMOTE their business.

I think you used flawed logic when going with what something "may" develop into in the future (I'd throw the Texas Outlaw Nationals into that as well, they had a great first year, but they haven't ran it a 2nd time yet, what will the WRG do if fan count decreases?  kill it off after a couple more years?  go to a different track?  try something at Vegas instead?  There are no guarantees that these events will thrive in future years, therefore iMO, they can't be a "top event" as they don't have a track record yet. 

I've seen this lots of times.  Remember, The Dirt Track at Texas Motor Speedway was going to sanction Outlaw races AGAINST the Knoxville Nationals and take it over (back when Ted Johnson was still in charge of the Outlaws).  Didn't happen, and now they don't even hold a standard Outlaw show there and haven't for years.  The Fram Dash disappeared after a few years (even though it was well attended fan-wise and competitor wise?  Why, just becuase Frame dropped their sponsorship?  If the promotor of those events (at 3 different speedways as I recall) wanted it to keep going, it would have (they would have searched for another sponsor instead of just the "Fram dropped out, we're not having anymore").

What happens if Kasey Kahne becomes dis-interested?  Does the Dirt Classic dis-appear?  Probably.  I hope not, but what happened in the past usually shows you what will happen in the future.

 



gators0849
March 25, 2015 at 01:51:54 PM
Joined: 05/07/2013
Posts: 1991
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Posted By: dsc1600 on March 25 2015 at 10:59:40 AM

I don't think we've fallen off a cliff. Knoxville pays double (in total purse) what it did back in the early 90s.

Lernerville pays about what it did in total purse when it was 35k to win, just spread out.

National Open pays way more than it did in the 90s.

World Finals pays a total $250k+ purse, albeit only a portion for sprint cars.

We need the Gold Cup to come back to prominence. I wish it could be moved to a facility that can support it. Chico is a dump and is too small a grandstand to support such an event.



I agree with what your saying except for the Silver Cup. That race is a shell of its formal self. There is more prestige under the old format.



sprintcarfan101
March 25, 2015 at 01:57:09 PM
Joined: 06/19/2014
Posts: 62
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My top 10:

little 500

cappy classic

knoxville nationals

360 nationals

 front row Challenge

knoxville weekly is the rest  

 




gators0849
March 25, 2015 at 02:06:59 PM
Joined: 05/07/2013
Posts: 1991
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Posted By: vande77 on March 25 2015 at 11:25:16 AM

I love how the "economy" is the go to reason.  Most of these races disappeared when the economy was going gangbusters in the early to mid-90's and things were great.  That excuse doesn't hold water for me, it's just that, an excuse.

Business related decisions I can believe, however most of these tracks that held those events have increased ticket prices during that same time when they were decreasing purses (and use the excuse of "less people are coming to the races".  Again, an excuse IMO. 

I sort of agree about car count and why pay more when you can get the same # of cars and pay out less, but what about FAN COUNT?  Once those races became "just another race", there are less fans coming to those events too (I attended all of the Fram Dashes held and at one time had the Lernerville Silver Cup on my bucket list (not anymore, it's just another stop on the WoO tour since they went to the current format)  Have been to the King's Royal (and plan on going again here in a couple years with my son), and have The World Finals on my bucket list now after they have PROVEN that they plan on doing it for the long haul. 

We have a severe LACK OF PROMOTION in sprint car racing.  Track Operators want to open the gates and expect people to flood in to watch.  If the track operators were PROMOTORS, they'd more than likely see their front gate increase instead of decrease yearly.  Instead, they raise ticket prices, complain because there are less people in the stands, and then cut the purses for teh competitors and then see car counts go down (which causes the cycle to repeat itself).  Sadly, they haven't learned that all those things are related to the fact that they don't PROMOTE their business.

I think you used flawed logic when going with what something "may" develop into in the future (I'd throw the Texas Outlaw Nationals into that as well, they had a great first year, but they haven't ran it a 2nd time yet, what will the WRG do if fan count decreases?  kill it off after a couple more years?  go to a different track?  try something at Vegas instead?  There are no guarantees that these events will thrive in future years, therefore iMO, they can't be a "top event" as they don't have a track record yet. 

I've seen this lots of times.  Remember, The Dirt Track at Texas Motor Speedway was going to sanction Outlaw races AGAINST the Knoxville Nationals and take it over (back when Ted Johnson was still in charge of the Outlaws).  Didn't happen, and now they don't even hold a standard Outlaw show there and haven't for years.  The Fram Dash disappeared after a few years (even though it was well attended fan-wise and competitor wise?  Why, just becuase Frame dropped their sponsorship?  If the promotor of those events (at 3 different speedways as I recall) wanted it to keep going, it would have (they would have searched for another sponsor instead of just the "Fram dropped out, we're not having anymore").

What happens if Kasey Kahne becomes dis-interested?  Does the Dirt Classic dis-appear?  Probably.  I hope not, but what happened in the past usually shows you what will happen in the future.

 



I agree with you on the lack of promotion. That's a major problem. There just aren't many Earl Baltes' out there, guys willing to take a chance for the betterment of the sport. To work on the facility, etc., to optimize the fan experience as well as the bottom line.

However, I think it's easy to say "get another sponsor" when the nut is that big. Not saying you don't try, but it isn't that easy. Even back in the mid-90s. Especially for the effort it takes to have a show like the Fram Dash. And besides, we don't know if they tried or not.

As for the Dirt Track at Texas Motor Speedway taking over for Knoxville, that was never going to happen. There are a couple of places that have as much power as the World of Outlaws, and Knoxville is one of them. Drivers were never going to bypass Knoxville for a race in Texas.

The Texas Outlaw Nationals may be a new event, but the venue is not. Devil's Bowl is a track steeped in Sprint Car tradition and history. The World of Outlaws going back to that facility generated way more buzz then any race that wasn't on that list. I heard chatter about it in Pennsylvania about it. There was interest.

As for Kasey Kahne being disinterested in the Dirt Classic, I don't think that is the case. Really, he does very little with it. The program, everything falls with his family, including Jarrod Adams. After multiple conversations with him, he has indicated that he plans to keep it at Lincoln and wants to make it a premier event.

Should I have had the Dirt Classic on the list, it's debatable. The Trophy Cup, the Tuscarora 50 and 4-Crown Nationals were so close. I talked to some drivers and considered different things. It was a very tough call. 



dsc1600
March 25, 2015 at 02:22:14 PM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4373
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I think Jackson Nationals will be on this list in a few years if you believe what Quiring has to say.



cubfan07
March 25, 2015 at 02:37:57 PM
Joined: 06/01/2007
Posts: 586
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I dont disagree witht he original list of 410 races listed above but since the debate has started i might as well ask...Where

are the votes for the Chili Bowl and Belleville? They are full of prestige if we are throwing all types of sprints together. The

World Finals IMO is a cool event but is a far cry from being considered a prestigious event.


-Austin Rankin


HDsmoke20
March 25, 2015 at 02:57:59 PM
Joined: 07/25/2006
Posts: 405
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Reply to:
Posted By: dsc1600 on March 25 2015 at 10:59:40 AM

I don't think we've fallen off a cliff. Knoxville pays double (in total purse) what it did back in the early 90s.

Lernerville pays about what it did in total purse when it was 35k to win, just spread out.

National Open pays way more than it did in the 90s.

World Finals pays a total $250k+ purse, albeit only a portion for sprint cars.

We need the Gold Cup to come back to prominence. I wish it could be moved to a facility that can support it. Chico is a dump and is too small a grandstand to support such an event.



Chico is a dump and the Gold Cup is a shell of what it was back in the heyday. Gold Cup used to be one of the few races that could split the field into two qualifying nights and have 35-40 cars each night. Now, it's just a name attached to an otherwise normal format Outlaw show. The Trophy Cup is better (better track, more cars and the best format for the fans) and the Louie Vermeil Classic is getting close to bypassing the Gold Cup. The racing at the Louie is stout and there are few tracks more picturesque than Calistoga.



Oakland Sprint Fan
March 25, 2015 at 03:05:23 PM
Joined: 04/14/2007
Posts: 1573
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Chili bowl is midgets,  great to see another person add The Little 500, that should be in the top 5 for sure.


  



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