Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

My thought is that the upper Midwest already has a long established 410 series.  It's called the IRA and considering the challenges of today's economy and how racing fans are strapped for cash they do a great job.  Unless they were to co-sanction with Steve's guys or run somewhere like River Cities which is a long haul I see 15-20 cars max on week nights.  Sounds like they'd operate more south of IRA and NOSA and I'm not really familiar with many of the cars and drivers outside of Knoxville.  I do know that 360's seem to stand a bit better of a chance of drawing cars in some areas with pockets of 410 racing scattered here and there. 

I've seen some sanctions and touring groups come and go in my 50+ years of watching these cars.  My first memories of IMCA are back when it was something big.  I've seen promoters sneak out the back gate while 30 410's loaded up and refused to race and the stands came close to rioting.  I've seen big paying specials during the week in Late Models and Modifieds that drew what amounted to a weekly show.  Throwing money at a series isn't always the answer.  In those cases at the end of the season I've seen those promised points funds vanish. 

I wish them well but I think anyone getting into this kind of deal has to have a good undertstanding of how many cars and drivers are available.  Who is running for points at their home track.  Who works Monday through Friday and all those kinds of variables.  I'm always game for more racing options but I've seen a lot of wide eyed dreamers get beat up by reality over the years.

Stan Meissner

I have to wonder why none of the tracks who would seem to be the most likely to have this series run there have been contacted yet. It just seems rather strange to me.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

Love the IRA, I think it is a great series. But calling it an "upper midwest series" is quite a streatch. How many shows do they run outside of Wisc.? If the new MOSS does things right and makes a midweek show more of an event rather than just another race they may do ok. I  just like the idea of getting some more 410 races within decent driving distance.

Let's for a moment assume BGTS and other sponsors / investors are involved.  They could be looking at renting tracks and putting up the purses themselves.  This allows them to receive ticket sales and pit pass revenue.  The track owners typically keep the rental fee which covers electricity and staff costs and concessions.  Track owners typically like these deals.  If BGTS is involved, let's assume he has the $ to do this and not worry about making a profit.  I think the BGTS guy likes giving back to the sport and he may see this as an opportunity to spend his money and give back to more people than just his 2 teams previously.  I too am a bit skeptical it will be successful, but if the financial support is as deep as I'm thinking it is, that will help a lot.

An idea like this to help the racers in the Midwest and nothing but negatives from you. There are other race tracks outside of Knoxville (not knocking Knoxville, either) that support 410 racing.

I don't think this series stands a chance now, you guys. This board's know-it-all says it won't get the cars or the fans to show up. Damn you, Debbie.

Leave the non-Knoxville sprint car talk to guys that actually leave Marion County on here.

This is the best thing that could possibly happen to any sprint car driver/team around the area and there are enough teams that could and would travel the entire thing. A series wanting to work with local tracks to help the fans, the drivers, the owners, the promoters... everyone involved top to bottom.

BIG J

"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."

Since they will be running Sunday or weeknight shows I sure hope they don't let tracks have 4 or 5 back gate padder classes. Or they run the sprint car A first, since most fans that traveled the furthest would probably be there for the sprints.

Sure don't care to watch cars "race" at speeds slower than I drove to get to the track!

You mean guys like me that have attended races @ I-80, Eagle, Huset's, Eldora, Attica, Pleasanton Kansas, Sedalia, Lakeside, Jackson, Spencer, Burlington, etc..

I do HOPE this works, but you are only looking at this from one viewpoint (that as a fan), in order for this to work, it has to work for EVERYONE, the fans, the promotors, the team owners, the drivers, etc..

My fear is that this will be like a long line of other ventures, try to get too big too fast and then "pull the plug" because it didn't take off as fast as anticipated (The Late Model fans are well aware of this as they've seen countless organizations through the years (STARS, MARS, Extreme, Lucas, World of Outlaws (twice), Hav-A-Tampa, Big Johnson, NDRL (lasted less than a year with basically the same business model as proposed here), WDRL, etc., etc.).

You'be got to e a REALIST and look at the business aspect (if it doesn't make $$$ for the investors, odds are is it will have a short shelf life), and the fan aspect (if tickets are priced higher than a like show, the fans will usually pick the cheaper option), and the team owner aspect (if the purses are $3000 to win, only 1 car is going to turn a profit probably, so getting a large group of followers is going to be tough -- and even tougher when you consider the # of "full-time" racers in the area).

Can it work?  I think it can, but they've got to have a LONG TERM vision and business plan.  If their business plan is to make $$$ by year 2 or 3, I'd say this won't last very long (it will take time to build a fanbase, obtain additional sponsors, and bulid "brand awareness" that will help them sell more tickets).  If they are thinking by year 5 or 6, then it's got a great chance.

Super Chuck thinks they are one cool logo away from a gold mine here.  The MOSS man.  Shirts, hats, fanny packs....gold.  Start with that and the rest just falls into place.

Super Chuck

If the 'they' in this deal is Tod with Big Game, he's probably not losing sleep on whether or not he's going to make money with the series in the forseeable future.  He's got a damn successful business that allows him to spend freely on whatever he wants and not worry about turning a profit to make ends meet (see the full-time WoO teams he has fielded the past few years).  Do you think his 'business plan' with those WoO teams was to turn a profit by year 2 or 3... or even 4, 5, or 6??  BTW, it's rhetorical -I don't need to read a 300 or 400 word response rebuttal...

no one knows who's behind it, it's all just rumors at this point.  If it is Tod and he's willing to lose $$$ for a few years it will probably be successful.

If it's Tod but he's got other investors, it will depend on how long they are willing to lose $$.

Like I stated before, I HOPE THIS DOES WORK, but I'm not gonna "bet the farm" that it will.

He might sell alot of tree stands on this deal.

I never knew the Hoseheads forum know more about business than Big Game! Maybe Buffet and Trump should come on here for tips 

Just a few things: 

1. He said MN owner, That could be Big Game,  Motter, or Buffalo Wild Wings just to name a few.

2. The Midwest needs more 410 shows, I like MOWA and the IRA but neither one have enough shows or any shows in IA, MO, or NE.

3. I pray that Webb has nothing to do with this!!!

4. Who cares how much sense business the purse and points fund make to us, If who ever this is will spend the right amount of $$$ to draw the cars it's a win win for everyone!

The real nationals are in Little Rock

Concur on #4. If “it has to make $” applied to this sport no one would load the dam cars up at noon, ingest fuel costs, risk lives, waste weekends & week nights, buy tires over and over, race fuel, etc. Same goes for take the chance running a  track or series, etc. Some guys with wealth buy $40M sailboat (Elision), etc. Why would we not rejoice in someone with some disposable $ willing to throw it into the wind at this sport that could sure benefit from it? I go to Husker home games and think for all the disposable income wrung out of people on game day/ weekend. Not a single person of the near 100k that puts on red cloths and heads down there can say it cash flows and makes financial sense. (unless selling beer, food, shirts) It gets in your blood to race and even to run races. If I had massive wealth a racing based financial dump would be on my top 5. But we race fans are fewer in numbers by massive magnatudes to say football fans or houses in the Hamptons types. I would bet a lot of weathly people yearn to do something with a % of their war chest that really makes little finacial sense. A few do it. Let it rip I say, and thank you.

No sense splitting hairs about the definition of what constitutes the upper Midwest.  I only see them when they make their northern swings and where I live in Minnesota is definately considered upper Midwest.  If you want to call it north, south, east, west or bum #@%# Egypt it don't matter to me, I'm not going to argue about split hairs.  I think we'd both agree that IRA races in a geographical area that consists of several states.  It sounds like this new series would operate south and west of IRA's home base.  If you want to define it another way I'm not going to consider your viewpoint "quite a stretch".  LOL 

The point is that the IRA is a great series and they fill the need for another 410 series at my home track Cedar Lake.  I don't travel much anymore and prefer to let the races come to me. 

Stan Meissner

How many tracks in the area that the new series is talking about running, run a 410 class on a weekly basis, and what is their average car count? Being from the Farmington, MO area, it would be nice to have that series come to this area, but it's pretty far south for them.

Another question might be what classes do the tracks in that area run on a weekly basis and how many of those promoters are Sprint Car friendly?  Up where I live most tracks are part of the WISSOTA promoters association and down in Iowa they're USRA and IMCA.  Many of these promoters wouldn't touch a Sprint Car show with a ten foot pole.  Places like Knoxville, Jackson and Husets are like Sprint Car islands in places where the majority of racing fans are Stock Car and Modified fanatics.  Any new series has to take that into consideration that every track located in the area they plan on operating in isn't going to jump on board.  Most of the places I'm thinking of are running six and seven class programs and probably can't afford a Sprint Car sanction fee.  Going into this they have to know that they'll be dealing with a limited number of promoters who are willing to give it a try. 

Stan Meissner

grand forks,minot, mandan in ND run sprint cars.

Man great question Stan, that was my point when asking how many tracks run 410's in that area. Doesn't sound like alot of car support in that area, hope i'm wrong about that, but most of the midwest is now 360 cars.

I'll be supprised if the Renegade series travels that far west. Maybe a western Ohio show, but I think Illinois and Indiana is a bit far for what that series is looking to do.