Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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John Westbrook testifies in lawsuit against Williams Grove Speedway, calls sign-in process, "Kind of like controlled chaos"

John Westbrook will be cross-examined by the defense on Thursday morning.

Wow.

Wait...does he still sign the same release every Friday the 1W turns up to race?

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I cant believe he said he wouldnt race there now if he could because things need to be addressed, the track is the same now as it was when he raced there and got injured, what a hypocrit. and then pretend you didnt know what you were signing when you entered the track, BS. I guess he thought he was signing an autograph. I sign evertime i enter the pits and i know why Im signing and no one had to read it ti me. This is so weak.

I have heard about this law suit for a while now, talked with a few people that knew the situation and most have a very similiar descriptions of what happened.  I think everyone, everywhere feels horrible for what happened to John but this is really getting out of control.  He said in his testimony that he offered to bring in back fill and grade the drop off, I'm not a lawyer but wouldn't that mean that he knew there was a possible issue and continued to race there anyway?  If he was concerned why did he race there?  This is Central PA, he has options - lots of options other then the Grove.  He also claims it was controlled kaos in the pit line???  I have signed into the pits hundreds of times, I can't remember ever being pressured or rushed through except for my own excitement to get in, which is my own problem not the tracks.  There is fine print on anything you sign - that is why you sign it; if it didn't mean anything then they wouldn't require a signature. 

Now the catch fence issue, a Hall of Fame type driver still active in Central PA posted on facebook that he would rather leave the ballpark then be a sitting duck to get drilled.  Knoxville has a big catch fence (and it is neccessary there because of a road being behind it), look up crash videos at Knoxville, how many cars flip up into that fence come down and get drilled by another car?  I may be incorrect on this because I did not see the crash but didn't Jeff Shepherd flip into the catchh fence there, come down and get drilled by another car in turn one and that ended his career.  Adding a catch fence doesn't mean it will make everything good.  Now do I think they should grade that back area, hell yes!  He however choose to race there knowing the conditions and and now he blames the track, the sign in both, the promoter, I can't believe the seat compnay and chassis maker hasn't been called into this suit.  Everyone is to blame here except he choose to race there knowing the conditions, continues to field a car there but yet can't make his drivers not race there - your the owner of the car - you can make them race where ever you want - its your car.

In my recollection, jeff Shepard never hit any fence @ Knoxville in the crash that effectively ended his career, he was in the middle of hte track and some cars got together on the opening lap of a heat race and they never even made it to turn #1, his car stopped just past the flagstand (I don't think anyone in that crash actually ever hit the fence).

OK, my apologies then.  I thought someone told me that it was up in turn one.  I guess it can still be an example of what happens when a car becomes a sitting duck back on the track. 

If anybody needs to be held liable, it's the EMT who let her personal emotions get in the way of properly removing him from the wreckage and yanked him out of there screaming about how she was his friend and needed taken out and never took the time to stabilize him or use a backboard. Like many have said...they are going after the wrong people. The guy doesnt like the hand he was dealt and seems to be pointing the finger at just about everyone but himself.

If what you say is fact, this needs to be brought up at the trial.  Is it too late for the defense to secure witnesses to testify about the actions of her or other EMT's?

WOW...did not hear this before.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I did hear this about the EMT but I did not hear that she took him out of the car.  I just know that one of the EMT's was a friend and very scared for John.

Loet's say for a moment that this is true (who knows, but for arguements sake).  That puts WG Speedway in a worse position.  They are liable for the actions of their employees and contacted workers (and the EMT's are employees or contracted workers).  That would definetely qualify as negligence.

When it comes down to it, you can't just sue the little people, you have to sue EVERYONE, top down.  You may elect to settle out of court with some of the parties (for example, if he had been burned instead and there was a faulty fuel shut off, he could have sued the track (for improperly or untrained fire personnel, but would also have to sue the maker of teh fuel shut-off.  The company may elect to settle out of court for a minimal amount of $$ (let's say $50,000) as when it comes down to it, if a properly trained fire crew were on site, the fuel shut off is a moot point, the fire would have been extenguished.  The fire crew (or track) would be liable for the remainder of the lawsuit (whether that was another $50,000 or $3 million) as the fact that the fire wasn't contained/extenguished would be the issue in the eyes of the law/court.

No one wins in this situation is my guess.  WG loses a big PR battle, John Westbrook has already lost, and even if he wins the $$, he lost more than the $$ is worth IMO, the fans may lose (as ticket prices may increase or worse yet, the track could close), and other tracks lose (their insurance rates will increase).

Will there be some potential positives?  Yes, racetracks all across the country will take a closer look at their safety procedures, equipment, fencing, etc. and will hopefully make changes that are needed (anyone that thinks safety changes aren't needed anywhere aren't looking very hard).

Just for the record --Jeff Shepherd's crash at Knoxville in '08 was during the start of the B-Main.  He started mid-pack (9th) ... and from what I remember, was shooting to the bottom of the track as he was entering turn 1.  He touched wheels with Brian Leppo (who started ahead of him in 7th), which sent him flipping across the track at pretty much a 45 degree angle towards the fence.  I remember the fence visibly shaking after he hit it, so I think he hit the fence a ton.  It was chaos after that with several cars hitting/running into him (Chad Meyer, Billy Balog, etc) that had nowhere to go.  That's what I remember...

yes...he smacked the wall and bounced back into the flipping field - there was video online at the time but its no longer on youtube when I searched today.

if the fence had no been there...the grocery store parking lot would have had 6-8 flipping sprint cars in it.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I must be thinking of a different year when a yellow car from NZ (starting on the pole of a heat) stacked up the entire field and no one made it turn 1.  Same timeline (maybe even the same Nationals)

I believe you're thinking of Carl Wilson of Aukland, NZ in the white 11NZ machine.  It was the same Nationals (2008, Wed night).  See the link below for the carnage he caused, skip to 1:06.  It's amazing everybody walked away from that one!  That was the major factor in going to the invert of 8 in the heats (instead of 10) the next year -- has remained at 8 ever since.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaNLg1v3vvk&list=UUwgPs-rrxtoW91epf3LLIwA

The Shepard flip was the next night in the B-Main.  The link to that crash is below, skip to :30.  It was as brutal as I remembered it - he was lucky to survive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x65zKF4MctQ&list=UUwgPs-rrxtoW91epf3LLIwA

This here summs up our legal system.  If he can win this case, I'm almost certain that John Westbrooke will win his.

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/nyc-jury-awards-shoplifter-dollar500k-for-broken-ankle?ocid=ansnews11

Keep in mind that case was a Brooklyn jury, I have a feeling they were able to fill the jury box with people that maybe had a dislike for the police, so they gave the plaintiff a bunch of money.

The outcome of this will be very interesting as I think Westbrooks attorney has a tall order to convince the jury that he didn't realize he signed a release and also didn't realize how dangerous the track and racing was. Yet he'd raced there many times before and other places as well. 

Even if the jury sides with him, they also get to choose how much he is awarded in the end, so they may very well award him a certain amount for medical expenses and give nothing for pain and suffering. This is the reason attorneys often demand outrageous amounts, because they know if they even get 1/4 of what there demand was they win.

http://gph.is/XMLGff

a lot has been said about the release that is signed. westbrook says he didn't know what it was. did the defense ask him what he thought he was signing?

westbrook says he was rushed through sign in and didn't have time to read what he was signing. so did he ever ask AFTER the races what it was? he had plenty of time to find out what he was signing.

also i would think the defense would bring in other racers to testify as to the common knowledge of what they were signing evey week. to me the defense just needs to show the jury that what the sign in sheet is for is common knowledge in the sport and that the potential for a person not to know what they are signing is very slim.

westbrook seems to be claiming ignorance. ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law, especially if it is something you have done for years and everyone around you seems to know what is going on.

westbrook seems to have had some concerns because he mentioned grading the drop off. also he has a friend killed at the track so he knew there were risks involved.

he can try to get what he thinks he can in this but claiming ignorance should be easy to disprove.

to indy and beyond!!