Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I feel the cost of the PPV events online are way to high.  Each event runs $15 to $20 per race.  This would cost $150+ each month if your purchased all of them.

I bet if you charged half the amount ($10 per race) you would triple your audience and drive more sales & profit. 

JMO.

Agree!

http://gph.is/XMLGff

Completely agree, due to their greed on pricing I am saving a lot of money this year.  All I see is a lot of complaining by those who did buy the video with the normal non stop buffering and low grade picture quality.  If they honestly would have offered an annual membership under $200 I would have purchased but every weekend $40 doesn't work for the current quality of programming.

I agree!

I did purchase the Dirt Vision coverage last night, but the buffering was terrible. Dirt Vision's picture quality is also poor when compared to others, yet their price is ultimately the highest.

Dear Dirt Vision, I won't be back anytime soon!

I have verizon FIOS (super fast internet service) and a fresh up-to-date computer. My guess is, the buffering is associated with the race track's connection, but I'm not an IT guy. With that said, why can't Dirt Vision or other setup early and test the integrity of their connection. If the connnection is poor and they can't deliver as promised, perhaps they could discount the rate or in some extreme situations, opt out, in order to save face.

Sincerely,

Disappointed!

seems ok for price to me. 

99% of PPV broadcasts are seen by more than the purchaser (probably closer to 4 people per PPV buy).  And IMO, no one sitting at home in front of their TV or computer should be getting by cheaper than the paying audience (hate to break this to you, but if you have cable, DirecTV, or Dish you PAY for every channel, and they in-turn pay for the rights to broadcast their programming (whether that be basketball, hockey, racing, etc.). 

The difference is that EVERY subscriber they have pays for that channel whether or not they ever tune in.  PPV only those that WANT to tune in do and have to pay for it.

Now, when it comes to their video quality that is completely different.  heck, they have a hard time with audio quality.

The bottom line is that they are a BUSINESS, not a charity.  They charge what they feel they can get people to pay.  There must be people out there paying it or they wouldn't offer it.

If you don't like the price, don't purchase it and instead actually go ATTEND a race in person instead (If you don't want to spend $20 on PPV to a race all the way across the country you should find out what it costs those that travel to attend and maybe you'll realize that $20 to watch from your couch is pretty miniscule in comparison.

I don't think there would be as many complaints ot the price if they had a quality product. There were times last year when I thought 69.99 was to high. Sounds like the only change from last year is a big jump in price!

The free audio would also play, and just stop playing after a while, showing the 'play button'. I literally had to press the 'play button' 8 times to turn the audio back on, until I was fed up and turned it off... 

Hopefully all of this can be fixed. 

vande- I would have to disagree with you.  I frequently purchase PPV for various sporting events.  The only PPV events that charge more than $10-$15 per event are your ' Special Event' sports, like boxing, MMA, etc...Weekly racing is NOT a 'Special Event'.  A 'seasoned' sport like racing, basketball, hockey, etc should not charge what the spectator pays at the gate.  When you go to an event, you pay not only to see the event but you also pay for the experience (intangibles)... 

Hannity, It's not the Track's connection if you look at the video they put on You tube of last night it is very good. It's when they run it out to the Server they are using online some where. It looked almost like there were running it as DSL. That is why you get all Buffering it can't upload the info fast enough to keep up with all the demand. If it is over Phone lines when it leaves the track that is where you get all the problems. The bandwidth is to small on DSL to have 30 or more Computers needing info.

I know they have tried a Modem, DSL, Satellight, Microwave. I'm thinking Knoxville is on a Trunk (T1) Line to the server they are using. USAC has no Buffering problem either when the put a live video feed on.

When I have watch live videos off of you tube, my DSL Modem is just flying on download, last night it went download then waited the download then waited etc...

As you wrote, to test this out they need to connect to a computer in Charlotte and have them look at it on T1 and DSL.

I wouldn't mind paying the money to see the broadcast if they could actually put out a good product. And the fact that they offered a season pass for $69.99 the last couple of years and have now just dropped it would also be fine if they actually made adjustments to their product, but it seems nothing has been changed to better the viewing for the customer. IMO XSAN is way better in video quality and it doesn't buffer. Hopefully dirtvision will either fix their problems or maybe some other broadcasting service will come along and take on the task. Until any of that happens I will continue to listen to the free audio offered. I do appreciate all that dirtvision does to bring this option to the people that can't attend every Outlaw race, but it doesn't seem like they're very interested in fixing their problems just interested in taking people's money for continued crappy service.

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But Dirtvision isn't a "weekly" event.  Each event is billed as an "EVENT" to it's audience in market (no different than WWE, MMA, NASCAR, etc.).

Major League Basketball, Hockey, Baseball and NASCAR all have television partners that PAY THEM for the rights to broadcast their product, yet they also still have a PPV option for out of market games (because their partners aren't putting the Boston Bruins on TV in Los Angeles or putting the Kings on TV in Boston).  Since they are already getting paid by their partner (ESPN in most cases), ESPN is broadcasting one game to the east coast and another game to the west coast at the same time.  If you live on the west coast and and want to watch the broadcast from the east coast you have to PURCHASE a package for that product (NFL Sunday Ticket, MLB Extra Innings, not sure what NHL's is called, there is also one for College Basketball).

You are trying to compare the World of Outlaws to what??  weekly racing from Podunk speedway, KY??

PPV for weekly events at tracks costs $10-15, why wouldn't a traveling series cost more than that?  Becuase you don't think it should?  It's economics 101 and supply and demand.  Their must be enough demand for the programming @ $20 for the WRG to charge that amount.  Once they hit a certain $$ figure that will no longer be the case, but only they and their accountants will decide when they've hit that $$ amount.

No different than race tickets to attend in person.  10 years ago you could go see a WoO race for $20 in MOST markets.  Now, MOST markets are over $35 and some are @ $50 and there are ZERO at $20.  Heck, some tracks charge $20 to go see IMCA Modifieds run a "special" for $1500 to win and $50 to start.

Like it or not, the WRG considers ALL of their races to be EVENTS, and charge the $$$ amount on PPV that they feel is appropriate.  Like I stated before, they must get people to purchase it or they wouldn't offer it.

Just a thought but is it possible that they didn't offer the season package this year in hopes that they would actually have less viewers so that the over crowding effect may be solved. I have nothing to base this off of but just a thought when I was thinking about why they wouldnt want to lower the cost so they would get more viewers, maybe they don't want more viewers? My thoughts go to the sponsorship and advertising then if that was the case. They always want to have a big named title sponsor and to me, if you are showing online and can show that company that you have X amount of online viewers as well each race that is a big selling point. That would also help racers/car owners as well if they could tell those potential sponsors of the large amount of online views from all over the world that their name on the side of that car would get.

I can watch a Nascar race or NFL game on Sundays for free if I just use the antenna and that isn't because of cable revenues for the organization, it is because they actually pay for that broadcast through advertising sales. Those sports know that in the end the more people they have watching, the better they can sell advertising spots. They also know that by making the game or race available for anyone to watch for free, they are creating a fan base. I know even if it was free, the internet isn't the place you'll get a casual viewer but you would get way more views than I'm sure they are now and like I said before, that number of viewers is what they could take to potential advertisers and sponsors and sell.

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i paid $35 for xsan in hd from east bay they had no problems and the quality was great i felt the price was ok for the quality of coverage

i watched 2 nights from volusha and though the $22 was overpriced for constant buffering and freezing

but the absolute worst is usac $20 for one night at ocala missed 2 heats while it was buffering then missed the consi after i was booted off site and had to log back on which took a good 10 min as their website itself was slow

I don't know what the production costs are. but the price is too much for me, except maybe in special cases

The biggest thing I have found is when I am streaming races whether it is Xsan, Dirtvision or USAC you have to have your wireless dedicated to the stream. I have found if I am streaming then the wife tries to do something on the IPad then it starts freezing and buffering. If I am on solo on the wireless it will work fine. Just a tip.

To me $20-25 a night is still a bargin compared if I had to load up and go to the races.

I'm on highspeed internet, watching Xsan, through wireless laptop hooked up to the flatscreen in living room Beautiful quality, no buffering, can play wireless Xbox online on TV next to the races inbetween heat races and mains, never buffers, quality never degrades, DirtwannabeVision just needs to spend the money and get better equiptment if they want to continue charging the prices they do, otherwise, they are spending the money to do live video for people to listen to their free audio. 

If i cant be there I dont want to watch!!!

Vande normally I agree with what you say but on this one I just see too much of an opportunity being wasted. I get that most buys for the PPV are being watched by more than one person and that should be put into consideration but what is one thing that everyone agrees with in theory that sprint car racing needs in order to grow/survive, exposure. I have always felt that using the PPV tool that the sport could expand in terms of sponsorship/more dollars into the market. Especially on the local market and I know there is always the threat of people not showing because they can watch it online but would you honestly rather watch the race for $5-$10 online or pay $15-$20 to go. Personally if I am local I would much rather go everytime because you are getting the excitment.

Plus, some hardcore fans that live in other areas that do not have race tracks within a 2hr radius may want to buy a couple of ppv's and watch a race like Knoxville or Willams Grove. I think you would have more fans across the country that would purchase tracks like that if they had the opportunity as well without it effecting attendance and it probably would make it more profittable. Might be a risk but I actually think people would like to see a weekly race at the Grove or Lincoln that live outside of PA, same with Knoxville. Same goes for the WoO in general but yes they probably would be more expensive than just a local show, but the quality of the presentation has to be good.

I agree with what you are saying, but the problem is this.  Currently the only fans willing to spend $$$ to watch online are the EXTREME HARDCORE fanbase - not the hardcore fanbase, just the EXTREME HARDCORE FANBASE and there aren't enough of those to make PPV turn a profit in my estimation. 

To make a business successful, you have to have cashflow and my guess is that the current model has probably LOST $$$$ the last few years and they raised the price this year to try to either not lose so much, or break even.

PPV will NEVER grow the fanbase.  PPV works for things like MMA, boxing, NHL, NBA, NFL, etc. because the fanbase is there already and clamoring for more (you can watch all of those on broadcast or cable TV multiple days a week). 

The NFL is on broadcast TV (3 channels) and 2 cable networks every week, so they have grown their fanbase through the broadcast channels and then a % of them are willing to spend the $$$ on the NFL Sunday Ticket. 

Sprint Car racing has pretty much ZERO broadcast being done (MavTV does some, but it's cable and not live), so the beginning pool of fans is already Mucy, MUCH, MUCH smaller than that of everything else.

Let's say NFL has 40,000,000 people every week watch a game, out of those, maybe 3% are willing to buy the NFL Sunday ticket, so that's 1,200,000 people.

Now, on the other hand, Sprint Car racing at its PEAK in teh 1990's had less than 1,000,000 viewers for their live events on Cable TV (today it's less than 500,000).  so that same 3% that might be willing to buy PPV is only 30,000 if there are 1,000,000 viewers and 15,000 if there are 500,000 viewers.  Now you break that down farther as to out of those, how many ACTUALLY PURCHASE a PPV event.  probably far less than 10% of that #.

Therein lies the rub.  You have to sell a certain # at a certain $$ amount to recoup your costs.  Lowering the price doesn't necessarrily increase your sells by the same % either.  Reduce cost by 50% and you need AT LEAST DOUBLE the amount of PPV buys to bring in the same revenue, problem is that you have increased costs as you are using more bandwidth.

I was a subscription holder the last two seasons for dirtvision. The price was OK . They dropped itin favore of race to race. It's too expensive so I will not be buying any this season . Even the better ones like xsdan and others I think overcharge. A lower price would get more buyers. When I talk with other racing friends the answer is always,  "its is too expensive , so we didn't get it."