Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I know some guys run them and some guys don't.  Why do those who do, do; and why do those who don't, don't? 

I have some theories, but given my newness, and relative cluelessness, I'll wait and see what the experienced guys say.

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Loads the right-hand birdcage to tighten the car

Binds the right-hand birdcage to loosen the car

Makes the car loose/tight when you use the brakes.

please circle one

Here is the conclusion I have come to when using a RR brake.....I am no expert but can tell you what I've felt in the car.

Both loose and tight answers are correct....depends on how you're using the brake.  If you run in the corner and stomp the brakes to set the car, with a RR brake, the car tends to stop better and will therefore allow you to set the car later.  You can run it deeper into the corner and set the car later knowing that it will stop when you hit the brakes.

If you're dragging the brakes through the corner, to me, it feels like it plants the RR into the track harder and keeps the car under you better, especially through the slick.

Again, these are my opinions on it, I'm no WoO champ or anything but I run a RR brake because of what I feel above.  Take it for what it's worth.

If it is a solid axle, can you tell me how running a brake on either corner will allow the car to free up or tighten?

The only thing that I can see is the confidence factor, you feel better having more brake so you drive the car differently.

I have put tremendous amount of time into this catagorie, why?, the first time i used a RR brake i absolutly loved it, and i coundnt explain why, other than the braking surface of the rear had multiplied its resistance, (note these cars are light) depending on track conditions and where your looking to run it can be a benifit it just simply relies on driver taste and input from the highlights that the brakes are performing to his style... this can go both ways, my second night with using the RR I hated it. it was too agressive, i was forced to drive the car in harder and only a mild margin of error was disastorous, the trak took a top condition mid race, i was trying to drive in hooked to the entry of the top, i could catch cars there but bottled up on the apex of the turn, so passing was difficult, a quicker car was forced into the slick, upon throttle "pickup" the car would loose traction and the pass wasnt complete. now when aiming for this portion of the track on entry i would drag the brake   (drag- light to moderate pressure) the car would want to stay strait because of the RR Brake is the dominant fixture on the wheel with the most inertia and force (you remember the old science trick with the bicycle wheel and the axle, spun and hung from a string)  Thanks Mr Wizzard!... anyway. this can also add "dive" into your chassis,  have you ever held the brake thro a corner with your foot on the Happy gas , the brakes get hot, but in my experiance the car will "hug" the track expessially on slick, you can manipulate the car going into a washout and drifting loosely in the slick, (just keeps the rear under your rear,if you know what I mean) I often find this too late ,but our settup was less than desireable , slicks are harder to setup for,  SO ! with some of this in mind i came up with a problem solver and maybe just another thing to monkey with, just depends how comfortable you are and experianced, Speedway sells a shuttoff valve, like less than 60 bucks, I installed one going to my RR brake line i plumbed seperate lines to all three corners to the MC at the MC location near the front of my seat area I installed the shuttoff, this is old school stockcar type stuff, I came from IMCA mortifieds, Now i have the best of both worlds, the brake can be Bias one way or the other or just simply shuttoff, Lastly, within the past year I have grown to like the old system of inboard and one good LF, the versatility of the RR is still on the car and i just keep lugging the caliper and rotor around with me , try install the shuttoff in the off season, besides of the RR brake system gets damaged due to incident you can just remove the parts shut the valve completly and keep on truckn.. goodluck.

Because the right rear caliper is attached to the birdcage, not the live axle. The birdcage floates on the axle. When you apply brake, it tries to roll the birdcage forward...loading the right rear. 

brakes are for pussies

It's great that we have actual drivers on this forum.  Thanks!   

Lawlessness + liberalism = HELL -  NYC, Detroit, Chicago, 
Seattle, LA  Who the H runs those cities. 

Thanks for input everyone.  I drive a sprint car.  It has brakes.  I use them.  I am a pussy.  However, not just an ordinary pussy.  But rather a pussy who realizes that I'm new and I've learned almost 1% of what there is to know about racing a sprint car.  So, I sometimes ask questions I have to the masses who are clearly more experienced and intelligent than I am.  This particular inquiry is about making sure I have the appropriate braking capability on my car and which brake setup would likely best suit me and the tracks we race on locally. 

Due to some of the responses here, I feel that I better understand and have some ideas to try, and will ultimately be faster next year.  So thanks for that.

Due to some other responses on here, I now feel much more intelligent than I did, and am happy that I was present when the evolution train came by, now that I see what happened to those who missed it.  So thanks for that as well.

Carry on.  More input on my question is certainly welcome.  Now I'm going to try to change my screen name to PUSSY.

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too funney Eric,  noted.. I have had several conversations with a World Of Outlaws champion about the specifics of making a better braking system, AND without breaking the bank, titanium is nice, BUT not nessassarly the golden ticket either,  I have led lap lafter lap on some nights and spent the next two days limping around on my left leg, WHY? because I could enter the corners HARD, and faster than other cars that were setting up premature for the corner, this is a delicate balance, sometimes it can destroy your corner completely, but, if not, you will have your competitors standing there, with thier balls in hand, wondering how you riffled by them on a tricky portion of the track?,  RELY ON YOUR BRAKES, THEY MUST BE GOOD! DAM GOOD!, anybody else that begs to differ can buy you your next car...

another effect of the "dive " theory is it puts negative (rotation towards ground)  load into your tourque tube, (the largest mass of wieght  is the motor-midplate area) the pressure per sqft on the footprint of your tires will increase, if you have understood the effects of your roll centers and torque of your chassis you will start to find the resemblance of the torque tube acting as a lever..we can argue weather this unloads or loads your rear tires, it kinda depends how and when your using the brakes, there is several different theories, all have a considerable amout of truth IMO. your just going to have to try it, your adding more braking power into your car regardless, and for what ? like, less than $400 bucks?  like i stated earlier, if you try it a few different nights and decide its not productive , put the shuttoff valve in line prior to plumbing it in completly,if you  remove it completely you can keep the pieces for LF spares, with the valve you can tinker with it from time to time and beings your much like me, wondering if this is something worthy of having, you just looking for speed, speed in the name of Braking.. you might find it has its time and place, depending on what time of year it is, where you run frequently, or just your prefferance..  if you start to win, Keep it under your hat.