Forum: SCRAFAN.COM Forum (go)
Moderators: ljennings

at one time the so-cal area was the racing meca of the world . its  sad that those days are long past . a lot of things have changed over time . one of the things here in so-cal that has not changed is the belief that 410 non-wing sprint cars is all thats necessary to keep the sport alive . the truth is that over time we are getting smaller , not bigger ! what will it take to start increasing 410 car counts ?

Drama , Controversy , Rivalry 

I don't have any answers....and I'm "just" a fan.  I was away for about 7 years, and was surprised to see how much it's changed in the time away as far as car counts, reduced number of races on the schedule and fans in the stands.

That said, I can tell you there are other parts of the country that are suffering as well.  It's not just the California economy.  Car counts and fan counts are down all over.   Where I just came from, if you got 14 modifieds at a dirt track where they were the headliner, you were lucky.  It was worse on the pavement side.  And, it seems nobody wanted or could afford to travel....even two hours.

To start off , we have plenty of Sprint Cars , they are just split into to many subdivisions, Open, 410,360,305 Spec etc,   if we can all agree on One set of rules, encompasing One Sprint Car Division ,then the car count potentail goes way up per race , if this can be agreed to by Sanctions , Promoters & Car Owners , then working out the details of how to do this becomes much easier !

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we dont have plenty of 410 sprint cars . at one time we did . right now it takes some 360s mixed in with the 410s to have a b-main . around here we have 360s aand 410s , no 305s and no spec sprints .  the 360 engine rules are all based on ascs rules , and the crazy thing is we are not racing ascs !! ascs is wing racing ! competitive  ascs engines used cost as much or more than the latest greatest 410s . thats wrong , sorry . if you paid attention to the last post , something very important was stated , most people cant afford to travel  right now . car owners have little voice in how rules packages are concieved . if the car owners were allowd to be involved , promoters would actually have a chance to coordinate rules packages from track to track .

Drama , Controversy , Rivalry 

Take the last Oval Nat.  IIRC you had about 35 360s on thursday  about 45 USAC/CRA  Cars fri & sat. that is about 80 ( that is a lot in my book ) Sprint Cars showed up a couple weeks ago , The problem I see is they are split in 2 divisions , It does not take a big leap to see 80 cars show up for the Oval Nats under current conditions running all three nights under One rules package ?

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gotta agree with Roy on this deal if Cal and Az.could get there shit together and come up with a unified rule package we could have decent car counts,as for teams not traveling; oh well guess they'll just have to leave the car in the shop and go fishin.

in my never to be humble opinion one of the biggest mistakes was cutting the scheduel down to once a month

ROB

BTW I have no dog in this fight so you can and probably will ignore anything I say

@ Rob- You will probably find out when U agree with me .... what U say will not be ignored  LOLLLL !!!!!

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One can find numerous things to blame for the car count, but it boils down to the most basic item, money.  The economy is in the dumps and until things improve you won't see great increases in car amounts.  A few years ago I was working on a 7 figure income, today we are only 20-30% of that, thus my 3 410 engines sit and collect dust.  Yes I have 2 each 360's, 2 midgets, and 1 410, with numerous spares, but they will set until times are better.  The house payments need to be made and the baby needs shoes.  Look back to the multicar teams, they aren't there anymore, we are all in the same boat.  

Racing is not a profitable sport, you need disposable income to compete.  Sorry

HOW CAN WE INCREASE NON-WING CAR COUNTS IN SO-CAL?

(I'm know I am broken record, but...) Flatten the grades on the 15 between V'ville & Perris, on the 5 and the 210 between B'field & Perris, on the 33 between B'field & Ventura, and (finally) on the 101 between Santa Maria & Ventura. That and move Phoenix 200 miles closer. 

ORRRRRRRRRRRR, leave your (actually the owners') egos in the garage and go to a 360-CI iron block motor with a three-year weight addition & rev-limiter accommodation for the 410 people to ease their way into 360s at the end thereof. Then we could have a "league" (of some sanctioned sort) that finessed workable racing at V'ville, Berdoo, Perris and Venura. 

Perris and Canyon have demonstrated that the big (national) boys in USAC =will= come out for 360 "nationals" here, so that (former) "barrier" is wearing down. 

ANNNNNNNNND, let's see what we can do to bring more midgets into SoCal to finesse some combo sprint car & midget teams for those who can afford to do both. Add the winged buzz bombs, and the promoters might have shows with a lot of front =and= back gate potential.

So far it seems everyones answer is a standard motor rule. So lets cure low car counts that are caused mostly by costs by making car owners spend even more on different engines? There is an easier way. Why don't the fans who are crying for more cars each adopt an owner who can't afford to run their car and pay all their expenses. Problem solved.

Sounds great, want my phone #?

well if you are a "car owner"and can't afford to race why the hell are you a car owner,quit whinning and sell your shit to someone who can afford it.

ROB

I'm not a car owner, just an ex racer who finds it amusing how people who do nothing but sit on their butts in the stands can continually come up with ways for other people to spend more money. And sell shit to people who can afford it? Pray tell where are these potential car owners just waiting for someone to sell them a car? 

I'm not whining, I am telling you like it is.  I would be interested in selling out, but who wants to pay a fair value of the 500K I have invested, are you interested????

Anyone remember the SCRA?  Yes, I know times were different then, but....

At this point I don"t think sanctioning bodies would make much difference. Costs would still be the same. Yes it would be nice if there were uniform rules but at this point the cost of changing motors would probably be enough to put more cars in the garage. And it's not just racers. If the PAS was still running sprints 3 times a month I bet the crowds would thin out because people just can't afford to go that often. And the crowds are not all that great as it is.

Exactly!!!  Scra had 40+ at every race before USAc. Stepped in and made empty promises and split west coast into 4 divisions.  And as a fan,  me buying a ticket all I'm obligated to do..  I'm tired hearing owners complaining about fans.  Remember we are who makes the races coming

we need local racing ! the usac deals are great , but not everyone can afford to travel .   we need track champions , local heros .  ventura crowns champions each year , we need this at more tracks . this is how its done in the mid west . we need transition classes to get to the 410 cars . there are lots of young kids coming up in racing and there is nothing to softly transition into sprintcars . parents wont go from legends to 410 cars !

roy you are way off on the 80 car deal , its 40 . if it wasnt for the allcoast money for the 360s we would have had a car count in the 40s for the ovals . same count the last 3 yrs . if your idea of big time sprint car racing is to combine 410s and 360s we all will lose ! we need more 360 racing that is more affordable .

Drama , Controversy , Rivalry 

Only 1 car owner has commented here and he didn't complain about the fans at all. People just have to realize that the days of stand alone sprint car races with 40 plus 410s are probably not coming back. It's unfortunate but what happened to midget racing in the late 80s has caught up to the sprints, it just costs to much to compete. And I'm not saying fans should have to do more then buy a ticket, all I was pointing out was that calling for changes that cost the owners more is crazy. I'm not an owner but my parents fielded a midget in so-cal for 18 years, and a tq before that and a micro before that, so I know what it takes. And I saw escalating costs drive them out of racing in the 80s. 

If you think back to the "glory days of racing, you had sprints, midgets and tqs. Then as numbers started to decline a little the "low cost" entry level classes started. Now you have legends, dwarfs, mini sprints etc. These are the places where the people who used to be field fillers in the sprint car ranks are because they can have more fun for less money. And I say field filler with all due respect because that's what I was when I raced.

Anyways, I've wasted too much of my weekend here so I'm done. Just remember if it wasn't for the owners you fans wouldn't have a race to go to. 

Wow.

It is amazing to me how short everyone's memory is on here.  This EXACT SAME conversation was being held a year and a half ago.  Scotty Burns was listening as everyone,  both fans and teams, cried "We need more tracks!" and "We need more races!" and "We need more options!" and "We need big purses" and most importantly..."We need less rules and restrictions!".  They all swore over the off-season that "If he built it, they will come!". 

Bullshit.

The URA was built to answer ALL of the above complaints.  The new series offered two (2) more race tracks, a full schedule of races during "dark" nights at other local tracks, more options for fans and teams (both local and traveling), very competitive purses, and NO ENGINE RULES!

Unfortunately, that formula didn't work out too well.  We averaged under 20 sprint cars (combined 410 and 360) and about 5 midgets (all Focus).  Our first 2 races had full midgets on the bill...2 showed up.

In my opinion, 'Gargoyle bluffs' is the closest to correct...it was all about money.  Not how much one could earn, but more importantly who was willing to part with it and in what way.  We learned too quickly that those who spoke the most about wanting "change" suddenly realized that it really wasn't change that they wanted, they just wanted to be heard.  The teams that rallied for more races really couldn't afford more racing in their budgets.  A lot of them tried to add some URA shows to their schedules.  The fact is, they just couldn't justify it.  Plain and simple. 

I'm sure I will be attacked for this post.  Many will chime in with their their own personal tales of how crappy the track surface was, and how poorly managed the series was, and blah, blah, blah.  Many of them are completely legit and justified.  However, no one expected this deal to be perfect out of the gate.  And quite frankly, if the money from potential (later to be determined untruthful) sponsors and benefactors had been there, a lot of those problems would have been corrected via adequate staffing and track preparation.  But that does NOT solve the problem that we had about 1,500 people in the audience on our best night (300 paid on our worst) and less than 30 cars on Opening Night.

John...I respect your opinion and think very highly of you and your team...you know that.  This is NOT aimed at you in any way, shape or form and is NOT intended to be all negative.  Just my 2 cents worth on answering the original quetion posted in this thread and the responses and other questions that some have posted. 

I do appreciate each and every one of the fans, teams, drivers, sponsors, donators, and crew that did show their support for this new venture and made it worth every minute of it.  You know who you are.  Like I've always said, there were NEVER any "lines drawn" or "walls built" to be on either side of.  Teams and fans were NEVER told that they should choose "Us" over "Them" and stick to their decision.  This was all about trying to BUILD THE SPORT UP.  Unfortunately, there are some people in this world that can't see how working together helps us ALL!

Am I bitter?  Hell yes!  Does that matter?  Hell no!  Will I continue to support this sport 100%?  Absolutely!

Doug Bushey

Passionate Fan / Announcer / Media & Public Relations 
Agent