Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Saturday night at Devil's Bowl there was a sprint heat with several attempts at a start that looked horrible.  REALLY bad.  Front row way out of shape.

I was thinking... this is the end of the year.  Have you guys not figured out how to do this yet?  Is is so complicated?

Opinions will vary on what was happening but to me it was a case of the polesitter wanting to start the race from the high groove... which I have never seen in my 43 years of being at a race track in one form or the other.

We've all seen some cheat up or down a bit to get a run off the 4th corner on a start but this was ridiculous.  There was no way IMHO that the outside polesitter could start outside of Harli White... he would have been off the track.

Do the ASCS folks not use raceceiver radios?  Do the officials have no guts to make a tough call on a part-time participant in their series?  Can they not enforce what seemed common sense because it isn't in the rulebook?

If it isn't spelled out in rulebooks (I doubt it is)... make it so.  I personally think the polesitter should get the bottom half of the track & the outside polesitter gets the upper half of the track.  Each row... same rule.

Polesitter choice of inside/outside... I have zero issue with that.

Side by side in 4, start in 3, start in 4, single file at the finish line (which I don't like), single file, Delaware style, double file, lapped cars at back of field... what are your thoughts on restarts?

I don't know the specific incident you are referring to, but I have an opinion on starts/restarts.  I think every car with an odd numbered starting spot should get the choice of inside or outside on every double file start or restart to a race.  There is an obvious advantage sometimes for running the high side of the track.  The 3rd place car gets screwed a lot of the time much worse than the polesitter.

If they can't get the start right, then one warning and then to the back you go--not drop back one row.

I think everyone should get a trophy! They're all winners in there own special way.

Some Guy In Texas:

The below comments are not directed to the event you are describing, but directly addressing your question about a universal starting procedure.

Starting and restarting procedures have been one of my pet peeves for years as well. So...

At the 2011 LSN we wrote the start/restart procedures right into the rules - and enforced them - and we had 3 nights of sprint car racing (with in excess of 100 sprints in the pits each night) will no issues on starts/restarts.

At the 2012 LSN, the exact same rules package was executed and we had a grand total of 1 race in those three days that had to be called back, and that was when a driver on the pole jumped their start - and was sent back a row...and there were 117 sprints total at that race too.

And now at the 2013 Armadillo Nationals, we utilized the same rules. After two days and 39 races, we had a total of 2 start/restart penalties; one was for a pole sitter that jumped a restart, and one for a driver that wasn't nose-to-tail on a restart. (That finale got PPD to 11/2 due to heavy rain)

So, between two divisions of sprint cars, modifieds, limited modifieds and factory stocks; these procedures worked across the board to create fair starts/restarts.

I think it's important to note that in those two days of racing not one limited modified or factory stock race had a start that had to be called back. The restarts in those divisions can slow down the pace of a show as well.

We also went to this same start/restart procedure at TMS this September in the Mods/Ltds...and it worked great there too, as it's really easy to fan out there; which creates a whole subjective situation.

Here's an excerpt of the rules, but the full format/rules are at: http://www.darinshort.com/armrules.html (and it is basically the same between all of the events, other than the Delaware component didn't apply to the sprints, but it easily could).

It's also important to note that all cars in all divisions are required to have working RaceCeivers, and before each race the scorer was on the RaceCeiver reminding them of the below rules.

ALL RACES WILL BE STARTED BY A WHITE CHALK LINE IN CORNER 4.

THE FRONT ROW MUST BOTH HIT THE WHITE CHALK LINE AT THE SAME TIME & KEEP A STEADY PACE THROUGH CORNERS 3 & 4 AS WE WILL NOT TOLERATE DRIVERS THAT SPEED UP/SLOW DOWN, AS THAT CAUSES UNNECESSARY CRASHES AND DELAYS. YOU ARE SUBJECT TO BEING SENT TO THE BACK IF YOU DO NOT ADHERE TO THIS RULE!

You must also be side-by-side, nose to tail on starts, no 'fanning out.' All restarts will be Delaware style, with the leader out front and the rest of the field behind the leader, nose-to-tail, no passing until the leader hits the chalk line.

In my opinion, she was trying to make a statement,after the first, and second failed restart. I don't remember who was on the outside pole, but he jackassed her on the start, not once but twice.

Johnny:  I can see that point for sure.  The officials were flipping out on the outside polesitter... I'm sure for not being alongside the polesitter in 4.  They must have seen it as you did.

Personally... it seemed like she slowed down in 4/inconsistent speed but I could be mistaken.  I was so mad at her drifting way up the track surface and not allowing the outside polesitter to hold his line that my judgment may have been off.  And NO, I was drinking a Diet Coke lol.  Nothing else!

DMAN:  Good rules & good explanation.  I'd like to see something about holding your line/keeping on your half of the racing surface which was kind of the intent of my post in the first place.  I'm probably asking for a rule that wouldn't be useful often but on this case it sure would have been nice.

There once was a day when people just started where they were, held their line & went after the lead from wherever they ended up.  A LOT of the starts & restarts at the Bowl were interesting... people ducking behind the guy alongside them because of the preferred racing line, cheating up or down the track for line/momentum.  With locked down cars & not much passing... I guess the start is hypercritical now even more than in the past.  Those 2 spots you jump at the green may be all you pick up.

Brian Brown didn't think so, though.    Just fast!

Leave it the way it has always been , pole car starts on pole. if he  does not like it move him to secomd row or to rear on restart.  Takes a good flagman to do this.

I was there and in fact in that heat.  The problem was the pole sitter.  I'm not sure Seth Bergman, the 23 could have idled as slow as the pole sitter was going.  All the pole sitter did 3 times was completely mess up the entire inside row.  She was trying to play games and messed up the whole field Then after 3 attempts the ASCS official let a start that was as bad as the other 2 go.  That coupled with the promoters complete disrespect for the competitors made the weekend pretty disappointing.

i  understand the pole person sets the pace but it has to be a pace.