Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Fast Freddie retiring and the 20s may not be back next year. Now the Trone 39 not likely to be back next year and possible retirement of Donnie Kreitz. The Shark and Jacob Allen going on the WoO tour and rumblings that Brent Marks is running low on funding. Add all the 410 teams that have folded over the past two years and we could be witnessing the demise of 410 sprint car racing in central Penna!!! Could this happen?? Tell me it ain't so!!!

My business has been stable since the start of the Great Depression however, inflation is taking a toll on the bottom line....

While the grizzled vets are seamingly getting the shits of it, there is allot of talent coming up through the ranks of carts, micros, and 358's that are ready, willing and able to fill the void...

Opinions may vary...

Yes there is a great bunch of young ones from Pa. to Ca. and other places.

But Nascar will steal most of them.

Wow, you just listed 4 of the top 5 in points at the grove so far this year... Hasnt there also been some talk/rumors about the possibility of LD not returning to the 27 car next year as well?  Should be interesting to see what happens this offseason.

You're bumming me out...

Stan points out thats there's lots of willing talent, but thats NOT the issue. Obviously its $$$

Bumming you out??? I couldn't even sleep last night just thinking about the quality and quantity of cars lost over the past couple of years. You're correct, doesn't matter if there is good young talent available, but no owners fielding quality 410 rides. It's very disheartening. Hopefully I'm over reacting!!

& I don't even live there! But I've been going to Speedweek & some other stuff when I spend time back East with Mom. Sprint cars vanished from here in Colorado long ago, Nebraska, Kansas & N. Mexico are LONG drives

The Posse has been dying slowly but surely lately over the past few years. The days of the 9 race, 2 year win streak against the world's best are long gone and now just a dream. The days of 15+ car owners competiting against each other is simply a thing of the past and won't return in this decade. Mike Heffner is gold for the sport right now and we need him to continue to field a team. For those that don't know he has even been fielding 2 cars for a majority of the season!

We will all have to realize it at some point but Fred Rahmer is done. Lance, Stevie and Greg aren't getting any younger. Greg is a top-notch driver and I hope things fall together for him on the track and his ill car owner John Trone off the track next season. He has enjoyed a fine year in what appears to be his last in the Trone 39. Luckily for us and him, Stevie Smith seems to have somewhat of a stable ride for the near feature in the local edition of the CJB car. Lance Dewease has 0 wins in Central Pennsylvania this year in the Heffner 27. He said at Knoxville, he would like to be racing 5 more years. 

There is still a chunk of talent within the helmets of the next generation. Danny Dietrich and Brent Marks seem to be the front runners in carrying the Posse flag for the next few years. Adam Wilt has had a hit or miss 1 win season this year and could turn into something with the right $$$ behind him. And if Kreitz continues to field a car for Ryan Smith he could be very, very, very good down the road.  I hope to see both little Rahmer's in 410's next year. Dylan Cisney could be a name to keep an eye on, hopefully he starts running the Grove a little more. And there is a ton of talent in the 358 division especially Austin Hogue who is having a HUGE season. Hopefully some of those names have some extra $$$ lying around and can field competitive teams. 

The true hidden gold of the Posse still lies in the 30+ year olds that do this for fun but are ultra competitive. Chad Layton, Brian Leppo, Brian Montieth, Doug Esh, Blane Heimbach, Alan Krimes, Cory Haas, Ryan Taylor, Pat Cannon the list goes on and on of guys that come to the track week in and week out and can flat out drive. Will any of these drivers ever be a significant player outside the confines of Central PA? Probably not, maybe a flash in the pan here and there, but most of these guys have jobs and work for a living and go to the races just like the rest of us, for fun. It's a special treat for us fans. It really is. 

Much thanks to anyone and everyone who fields or supports a sprint car these days. We're keeping it going one day at a time. 

Gotta be concerned about the car counts....I was at the Grove in June and there were 21 cars as I recall and it was the same just a few weeks ago.

The early silly season math does not equal any new teams-likely less at this point - and even one less team is a concern. And, the silly season hope of new teams doesn't seem to materialize - at least on an every week basis.

$1000 per night to run and that doesn't include motor costs, crashes, broken major components.  If you factor-in just the motor costs, it's no wonder John Trone has heart problems - and he appears to have more resources than many.

Hopefully 410 car counts are just another "lagging economic indicator" and they will come back.

Our teams tested and liked rock hard tires last fall, and the promoters waffled and decided to go with tires softer than the Goodyears over the winter instead. Lafferty went from winning several races at the Grove on used tires last fall to not running a lot of races this year. Our 358 car counts have also sucked since they did away with a lot of their engine rules. If the 410s would have just went with the tire they tested, everything was prime for a bunch of 358s to move up.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

I love the constant blame on tire deals when the real reason no one can afford to get in the game is motors. It's like going to a high end restaurant and bitching about the cost of a soda. 

Motor deal has been done to death over the last 15 years. 360s, 358s and 305s already run in Central PA. Right tire could bring them back together.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Drivers, teams, tracks, and series only have themselves to blame for the dwindling car counts and tracks closing.

Fact is dirt racing in general is in serious trouble and without major cost saving changes from the gocart racer to the WoO many more drivers and tracks will be nothing but a distant memory. 

Marks is fine not running low on funds. Kreitz isn't retireing don't know where that was heard. I've heard no such thing. Plenty of guys coming up in the near future. 410s in Pa will be fine for years to come. Don't see Schuchart and Allen lasting on the road all season. We are losing one car owner trone. Sell never said he was done when Fred leaves. I think your all worried about nothing.

I see Hodnett going to the heffner 27. Lance to the 20s and Leppo stays in the 1z for 2014. Rahmers boys moving out of 305 to 358 of 410s. Fred said the boys WILL BE racing Lincoln next year regularly. The only way that happens is if the move up to 358 or 410. 358 drivers Austin Hoage and Ryan Wilson will more and likey be moving from 358 to 410s. Again worried for nothing.

I've heard 410's. I also agree the most logical fit would be Hodnett - Heffner, Dewease - Sell, Leppo - Zemco. At least that's what I'm hoping for. There is A LOT of talent in the 358's right now. 

Don't worry.  Be happy.  Corinth, MS.  Five divisions.  Car counts of 9, 9, 8, 5 and 5.  Five heats and five features. $500 top in any division.  Why stick around PA and watch the demise.  Move and instantly become a part of the future.  Admission only $10.  Less is better.  Yea, right!  Should they get the U-Haul ready for you.

Keep in mind that when harz, Hamilton and Stewart got out a few years back, people said the same thing about posse demise. A few years later, the streak happened and the posse was never more relevent to the national scene. So let's not write the obituary just yet.

I am not so sure you are right.  The dirt tracks in the Midwest have been getting bigger crowds then ever.  The nationals had the biggest crowd in recent memory but even random WoO shows are drawing record numbers.  Huset's sold out for the only time in their history on July 3rd.  River Cities had their largest crowd ever 3 weeks ago when the Outlaws were in town.  You have Nascar drivers like Kahne, Stewart, Stenhouse, Gordon, and now more then likely Larson who are supporting 410 racing in a BIG way.  There are more Outlaws on the road this year then there has been in the past 10 years maybe more.  I can't speak for PA but I don't think dirt racing is in serious trouble.

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Skagit just had a huge crowd on Saturday for their Outlaw show.

In terms of popularity, 410 winged sprint cars have more than held their own, certainly PA is no different. I don't know that weekly shows are getting the crowds they once were, but certainly the specials I have attended have been very profitable (WoO shows, PA speedweeks at Grove, Weikert Memorial at Port etc...)

I think the worry is more on car count than fan count in this thread.