Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

2007 - 1 Posse Win in 5 races so far - do you need an accountant? where did i claim more wins.?you people invent friction when you fail to find it in the first place. not sure how many Nelligans we really need, but the supply seems to be outpacing the demand!

Excuse? - it was an account that was NOT posted on this site until someone highlighted the 28th place finish...who could that be? i say that with a GRIN because the 35 coming from the back was lighting up the fans more so that the racing up front!

Tore Up? - tore up way less than in parts unknown (was it 14th?). you forget that Schatz also BEAT the entire Outlaw field for every race that week with the exception of the race Leppo won...which is nothing new either, look at the points.

Yes - many WoO teams hire crew members that make their home here...they draw on their experience to field a competitive team...nothing new under the sun.

come see a race and listen to the response when the tower says "are there any World of Outlaws Fans out there"...it is a very odd comment to fall into silence.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

No accountant needed here. 1 out of 5 in PA(20%) -- 1out of 2 in CA (50%). I went back as far as 2000 (25% win ratio) to help level the playing field a little in favor of PA. I even offered to go back further. So have you figured out the win ratio back to 2000 for PA yet?

Do you mean invent "friction" or was it fiction. That could go either way. Just playing along with the game if you meant friction. If you don't want me to play, say so and I will absolve myself from posting on Posse topics in the future. Not a Nelligan here, in fact (and you can ask him) his opinion differs from mine on many subjects. If you meant fiction you will have to let me know what part of my post was fiction. Remember I am not talking midwest here, just PA vs. CA and the WOO.

So are we now longer talking number of wins (or even top 10s) and have changed the subject to hiring of crew members? Or are we talking about the sheer number of folks in PA that just hate the WOO? Or the masses that bought tickets to an event they would hate? I would rather stick to numerical data if that is okay with you. Personal feelings are too complicated to portray on a message board. Just as peer pressure will keep some from speaking their mind.

Come on, I know you can do better than that>

dang, i don't have an answer for that last line because from where I sit I hear Posse fans and WoO fans cheering. Why heck, I even hear Posse fans cheering for WoO's and WoO fans cheering for the Posse. Are we at the same race track? (I'm scratching my head here)

Must be undercover fans there

dear john - some people work for a living, busy here...stats can be figured, re-configured to say what you are aiming to say...so have at it, tell us all the stats you can come up with! its not a race night, so a little entertainment might even benfit Cisco & Ebert.

in the grand scope, they mean less to fans than the quality of racing. we had a pretty poor racing "product" this past week in spite of the crowds appreciation of a local winner. "best results on the planet" is a reference to the performance of more than one driver on a given night. it is the collective of our teams efforts that have built our racing scene to what it is today. appreciated by many and challenging enough to the competition for Schatz to run his "Kville engine" - his words in VL. the qualifying races had some intense battles, much more going on than 2 laps of scrambling and follow the leader that we saw at Eldora last week. i wish the track would not have rubbered out on Friday and Saturday - but that is not the norm here. funny how the conditions change when the track pays a sanction fee!

come here sometime...you will notice a marked difference in the reaction. in fact, it has been documented by other traveling photographers.

the subject of crew memeber was brought up by others, yes you are not the only person alive...next!

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

BigRightRead, Just to give our friends from other states, who've never been to the grove, a good look at the Posse fans, let me start off by saying my family has been around the grove for years. My father is 84, i'm 59 and my husband is 61 so we've been around the grove for a lot of years. My father has some wonderful memories of the grove. I do too as a little girl.

I probably should whisper this but I've sat right next to Posse fans who who boo other Posse drivers at the grove. Gee, I've even been there when it seemed like everyone boos Steve Kinser. I don't think this is only in racing, I think it's in all sports.

I always tell my husband if you want to tell a story, tell both sides. Fair enough?

To really get the truth why not go to the Grove and find out for yourself not you BRR (I mean other). I know we seem to complain at lot but we're there every week. Figure that one out

p.s. You really should be getting some work done today, BigRightRear. I know my husband's going to come home and ask me what I did all day. I have supper ready, so that should help until he reads the posts. (giggle)

lol...thanks...im still here, working late!

someone on here compared the Grove WoO/Grove races to a college football rivalry...last week was not an exception.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I agree. I didn't get any of this done today!

Those were not statistics but cold hard facts as you say. But i digress. You seem to want to use the statistics to further your cause when they suit you. But the bottom line is PA = 1 of 5 and CA = 1 of 2. PA had 50 top ten spots and PA drivers/cars filled 14(28%). CA had 20 top ten spots of which CA drivers filled 8 (40%). If I were to turn them into statistical representations, you are correct in that I could make the PA teams look like crap compared to even Ohio

No one is doubting your tracks fans or the ability of your teams to run them. Just don't fool yourself into thinking that it is the only place in the country with competition. Lets wait and see what the rest of the season brings. CA has 7 more nights of outlaw racing. We can compare then.

I had planned on coming there last weekend. When the Brownfield memorial came up I changed my plans. I should have stuck with PA because it rained the entire weekend. I will be making a trip to PA in the next year or two. I do look forward to meeting you and the rest of your group. You all sound like fun as long as you can take a bit of good natured rivalry from one coast to another. I know I can and it is fun to barb back and forth as long as it does not become personal. I would like to invite you to come to CA sometime for an Outlaw show.

I too have a day job, and a weekend job. Most times though I am far enough ahead of the computer to get a post or two read.

You guys have way too much time on your hands to be arguing like this so let me settle the debate here for ya. The Outlaws have the best racers in the nation and no one on here or from PA can dispute that. However, to say that PA doesnt have the best locals is just dumb and pointless. Steve Kinser's quote from victory lane on Saturday night, "This is toughest field we race against in the whole United States." Who can argue with the King? But lets take a look at the stats shall we? Since 1979 which is roughly 30 years ago, there have been 155 World of Outlaws events completed at Williams Grove Speedway. That's counting prelims and the recent 3 day show. The Posse has recorded 44 wins over that span and 16 different PA drivers have recorded victories. That means the Posse is winning 30% of the races completed there. If I would have counted Wolfgang and Bobby Davis Jr. wins in the Weikert car, then the number jumps up to 36%. Please tell me what other locals in the country are beating the Outlaws at a 30% clip over a 30 year span? Looks like the King and the stats speak for themselves. Just think what the percentage would be if not for the dominance of 3 drivers who have 66 of the 111 Outlaw wins? Go Brian!

71fan game on. I will do some research this weekend and see how many CA cars/drivers have won WOO events at Chico since 1979. Since 2000 it is 6/21 for 28%. While I am at it I will see what I can find out about Calistoga as well. Sorry but my personal data only goes back to 2000 so you will have to wait for the rest.

john we could mess with them for eternity. the posse people must have A.D.D. because they can't seem to stay on point with out changing the subject entirely. and with that i think now it is your turn john.

business is booming so much here that i am 7 days behind on a good day!

spirited debate is no problem here John...you might even take a seat in the coveted VIP section after you snap a gig or 2 of the action. if you think i root hard for locals when they race the outlaws...wait to you meet fans from my dad's generation, if they even bother to show up...YIKES!

i do have to warn you...if you are coming to deliver a sermon = wrong time - wrong station...and don't look to me to bail you out when you piss them off...i will be laughing way to hard! (insert BRR Report - melligan meltdown edition here).

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

California VS WoO through 2002 (sorry, that's all I have)...

1978

Jun 10 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 50 Lealand McSpadden Stanton #75a

Jun 10 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 25 Rick Ferkel Daugherty #0 Rick Ferkel

Jun 11 West Capital, Sacramento CA 0.25 D 50 Rick Ferkel Daugherty #0

Sep 23 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 40 Johnny Anderson Woodruff #21

Sep 29 West Capital, Sacramento, CA 0.25 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser Bros #11

Sep 30 West Capital, Sacramento, CA 0.25 D 50 Steve Kinser Kinser Bros #11

Oct 6 Santa Jose, CA 0.50 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser Bros #11 Bobby Allen

Oct 7 Santa Jose, CA 0.50 D 50 Steve Kinser Kinser Bros #11

Oct 19 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 15 Dean Thompson Bromme #3

Oct 20 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 20 Rick Goudy Moralees Bros. #2

Oct 21 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 50 Buster Venard Venard #7 Not run

Oct 22 Spdwy 117, Chula Vista, CA 0.25 D 30 Rick Goudy Morales Bros #2

1979

Jun 9 West Capital, Sacramento. CA 0.25 D 50 Steve Kinser Kinser Bros #11

Jun 10 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 40 Steve Kinser Kinser Bros #11

Sep 21 Spdwy 117, Chula Vista, CA 0.25 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser Bros #11

Sep 27 West Capital, Sacramento, CA 0.25 D 30 Tim Green Seroce #55

Sep 28 West Capital, Sacramento, CA 0.25 D 30 Jimmy Sills Flammer #83

Sep 29 West Capital, Sacramento, CA 0.25 D 50 Steve Kinser Kinser Bros #11

Oct 5 Santa Jose, CA 20 Doug Wolfgang Speedway Motors #4X

Oct 6 Santa Jose, CA 40 Shane Carson Trostle #20

1980

Jun 7 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser Bros #11

Jun 8 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 50 Steve Kinser Kinser Bros #11

Jun 13 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 20 Dean Thompson Bromme #2

Jun 14 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 50 Steve Kinser Kinser Bros #11

Jun 15 Spdwy 117, Chula Vista, CA 0.25 D 30 Doug Wolfgang Howells #4

Sep 25 Silver Dollar Speedway, CA 0.25 D 30 Wayne Sue Lovell Bros 71

Sep26 Silver Dollar Speedway, CA 0.25 D 30 Johnny Anderson Starr 18

Sep 27 Silver Dollar Speedway, CA 0.25 D 50 Johnny Anderson Starr 18

1981

Sep 19 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 40 Sammy Swindell Nance #1n

Sep 20 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Sammy Swindell Nance #1n

Sep 25 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 30 Sammy Swindell Nance #1n

Sep 26 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 50 Sammy Swindell Nance #1n

1982

Sep 16 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser Bros #11

Sep 17 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 20 Ron Shuman Stevens #21X

Sep 18 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 32 Doug Wolfgang Stanton #75

Sep 19 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Jack Hewitt Howells Inc. #4

Sep 25 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Doug Wolfgang Stanton #75

1983

Sep 9 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 25 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 10 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Sep 11 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 15 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 16 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 20 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Sep 17 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 30 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Sep 22 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 30 Ron Shuman Stevens #21x

Sep 23 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 30 Shane Carson Garrett #123

Sep 24 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 50 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

1984

Sep 6 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 9 Petaluma, CA 0.37 D 30 Bobby Davis, Jr. Suiter #18

Sep 14 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 20 Bobby Davis, Jr. Suiter #18

Sep 15 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 30 Brad Doty Stanton #75

Sep 20 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 20 Tim Green Watson #78

Sep 21 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 20 Chuck Gurney Bammer #11m

Sep 22 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 50 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 23 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 40 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Oct 5 New York State Fgds., NY 1.00 D 63 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

1985

Sep 4 Placerville, CA 0.25 D 30 Jac Haudenschild Watson #78

Sep 7 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 30 Ron Shuman Stephens #21x

Sep 8 Petaluma, CA 0.37 D 30 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Sep 13 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 20 Jeff Swindell DSR #1st

Sep 14 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 15 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 30 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Sep 21 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Danny Smith Trigueiro #1t

Sept 22 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 40 Sammy Swindell Beadle #4

Sep 25 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Jeff Swindell DSR #1^st

1986

Feb 22 Ascot, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 20 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1 l

Feb 23 Ascot, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 30 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Feb 26 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 40 Brad Doty Woodruff #18

Sep 3 Placerville Speedway, CA 0.25 D 28@ Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Sep 4 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 20 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Sep 5 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 20 Mark Kinser Kinser #51

Sep 6 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 35 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Sep 12 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 25 Bobby Davis, Jr Morgan #6

Sep 13 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Sep 19 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 25 Steve Kinser Kinser #11 S

Sep 20 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 25 Brad Doty Marks/Kepler #18

Sep 21 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 40 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 26 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 20 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Sep 27 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 35 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Oct 16 San Jose, CA 0.50 D N/A

Oct 17 San Jose, CA 0.50 D N/A

Oct 18 San Jose, CA 0.50 D Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Oct 19 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D Doug Wolfgang

Oct 23 Ascot, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 20 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Oct 24 Ascot, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 20 Doug Wolfgang Weikert #29

Oct 25 Ascot, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 30 Brad Doty Marks/Kepler #18

1987

Feb 22 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 30 Brad Doty Marks-Kepler #18

Feb 25 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 35 Bobby Davis, Jr. Morgan #6

Feb 27 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Feb 28 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Mar 7 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Jac Haudenschild Lee #2

Sep 2 Placerville Speedway, CA 0.25 D 30 Sammy Swindell Beadle #1

Sep 5 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 9 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 11 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 20 Bobby Davis, Jr. Morgan #6

Sep 12 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 19 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Steve Kinser

Sep 20 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Oct 16 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Oct 17 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Oct 23 #Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Oct 24 #Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

1988

Feb 19 Ascot Park. Gardena, CA 0.50 D 20 Jack Hewitt

Feb 20 Ascot Park. Gardena, CA 0.50 D 30 Mark Kinser Reid#6r

Feb. 24 King's, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Doug Wolfgang Stanton #40

Feb. 27- Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 30 Bobby Davis, Jr. Morgan #6

March 4 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D Jac Haudenschild Chupp #7c

March 5 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 40 Jimmy Sills Lamar #3c

Sept. 9 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sept. 10 Baylands, Fremont, CA 0.37 D 35 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sept. 15 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 25 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sept. 16 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 20 Tim Green Owen #14

Sept. 17 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 40 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sept. 20 King's, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sept. 23 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 20 Mark Kinser Reid #6j

Sept. 24 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Oct. 13 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Oct. 14 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Oct. 15 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

1989

Feb. 24 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 20 Andy Hillenburg Hillenburg #2

Feb. 25 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 30 Bobby Davis, Jr. Luna #10

Mar 1 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D Rain delayed to March 8th

Mar 3 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 20 Jac Haudenschild Nott #48

Mar 4 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Brent Kaeding Miller #69

Mar 8 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Joe Gaerte Wimmer #7tw

Mar 10 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 30 Bobby Davis, Jr. Luna #10

Mar 11 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 30 Jac Haudenschild Nott #48

Sep 1 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 25 Tim Green Owen #14

Sep 2 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Jimmy Sills DaneIl #5

Sep 3 Bakersfield, CA 0.25 D 30 Bobby Davis, Jr. Luna #10

Sep 7 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 25 Bobby Davis, Jr. Luna #10

Sep 8 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 25 Jeff Swindell Williams #11x

Sep 9 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 25 Keith Kauffman Noft #48

Sep 10 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Jac Haudenschild Powell #32u

Sep 14 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Jeff Swindell Williams #11x

Sep 15 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Jimmy Sills DaneIl #5

Sep 19 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Bobby Davis, Jr. Luna #10

Sep 20 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Darrell Hanestad Bailey #17

Sep 22 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 20 Jeff Swindell Williams #11x

Sep 23 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 30 Bobby Davis, Jr. Luna #10

1990

Feb 16 Bakersfield, CA 0.25 D 10* Dave Blaney Chupp #7C

Feb 23 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D Steve Kinser Kinser #11.

Feb 24 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D Dave Blaney Chupp #7C

Feb 28 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Mar 3 San Jose, CA 0.50 D Danny Lasoski Dave Blaney

Mar 10 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 19 Brent Kaeding Miller #69

Mar 11 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Bobby Davis, Jr. Luna #10

Aug 31 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 25 Brent Kaeding Miller #69 .

Sep 1 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Sammy Swindell Annett #1

Sep 2 Bakersfield, CA 0.25 D 30 Doug Wolfgang Williams #8

Sep 7 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 8 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Joe Gaerte Wimmer #7tw

Sep 9 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Sammy Swindell Annett #1

Sep 13 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 25 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 14 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 20 Chuck Miller Berry #7

Sep 15 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 40 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 19 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 21 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 20 Sammy Swindell Annett #1

Sep 22 Ascot Park, Gardena, CA 0.50 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

1991

Feb. 23 Imperial, El Centro, CA 0.37 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Mar 1 Bakersfield, CA 0.25 D Rained out

Mar 2 Bakersfield, CA 0.25 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Mar 8 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 20 Craig Keel Campbell #4

Mar 9 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Mar 15 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Dave Blaney Chupp 7#c

Mar 16 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Brent Kaeding Miller #69

Aug 30 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 1 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 6 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 7 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 14 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Joe Gaerte Gaerte #7w

Sep 18 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Dave Blaney Chupp #7c

Sep 20 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 25 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 21 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 22 Bakersfield, CA 0.25 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

1992

Feb 29 Bakersfield, CA 0.33 D Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Mar 4 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Stevie Smith Hamilton #77

Mar 7 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Stevie Smith Hamilton #77

Mar 11 Placerville, CA 0.25 D 40 Jac Haudenschild Forbrook #5H

Mar 13 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Mar 14 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D Rained Out

Aug 28 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 25 Sammy Swindell Annett #1

Aug 29 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Sammy Swindell Annett #1

Sep 2 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Sammy Swindell Annett #1

Sep 5 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Stevie Smith Hamilton #77

Sep 6 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 11 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Sammy Swindell Annett #1

Sep 12 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Jac Haudenschild Luna #10

Sep 17 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Dave Blaney Vivarin #7c

Sep 18 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Jeff Swindell Elden #22

Sep 19 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

1993

Aug 28 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 20 Brent Kaeding Miller #69

Aug 28 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Stevie Smith Hamilton #77

Sep 1 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Stevie Smith Hamilton #77

Sep 3 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 4 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Hillenburg Hillenburg #2

Sep 5 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 10 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 20 Stevie Smith Hamilton #77

Sep 11 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Stevie Smith Hamilton #77

Sep 18 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Brent Kaeding Miller #69

Sep 18 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Randy Hannagan

Sep 18Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Stevie Smith Hamilton #77

1994

Sep 2 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Joe Gaerte Two Winners #9TW

Sep 3 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 4 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Jeff Swindell Two Winners #7TW

Sep 7 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Dave Blaney Luma #10

Sep 9 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 10 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Dave Blaney Luma #10

Set 15 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Sammy Swindell Gilliam #1

Set 16 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Andy Hillenburg Hillenburg #2

Set 17 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Andy Hillenburg Hillenburg #2

1995

Sep 1 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Dave Blaney Luna #10

Sep 2 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Dave Blaney Luna #10

Sep 3 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 6 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Danny Lasoski Hamilton #77

Sep 8 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 20 Stevie Smith Matter #71m

Sep 9 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Dave Blaney Luna #10

Sep 10 Bakersfield, CA 0.33 D 30 Dave Blaney Luna #10

Sep 14 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Danny Lasoski Hamilton #77

Sep 15 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 16 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Andy Hillenburg Hillenburg #2

Sep 22 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 25 Keith Kauffman

Sep 23 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

1996

Aug 30 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Mark Kinser Kinser #5M

Aug 31 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Stevie Smith Motter #71M

Sep 1 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Dave Blaney Luna #10

Sep 6 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 20 Mark Kinser Kinser #5M

Sep 7 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Mark Kinser Kinser #5M

Sep 11 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Sammy Swindell Swindell #1

Sep 13 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 25 Dave Blaney Luna #10

Sep 14 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Dave Blaney Luna #10

Sep 19 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Brent Kaeding Kaeding #69

Sep 20 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Sammy Swindell Swindell #1

Sep 21 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Sammy Swindell Swindell #1

Nov 1 Perris, CA 0.50 D 20 Mark Kinser Kinser #5M

Nov 2 Perris, CA 0.50 D 20 Mark Kinser Kinser #5M

1997

Feb 14 Perris, CA 0.50 D 30 Mark Kinser Kinser #5m

Feb 15 Perris, CA 0.50 D 30 Mark Kinser Kinser #5m

Aug 29 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Sammy Swindell Swindell 1

Aug 30 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Sammy Swindell Swindell 1

Aug 31 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Sammy Swindell Swindell 1

Sep 5 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Dave Blaney Blaney/Hylton 10

Sep 6 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Mark Kinser Kinser #5m

Sep 12 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Sammy Swindell Swindell 1

Sep 13 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Brent Kaeding Kaeding 2m

Sep 18 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Mark Kinser Kinser #5m

Sep 19 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Dave Blaney Blaney/Hylton 10

Sep 20 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Dave Blaney Blaney/Hylton 10

Oct 25 Perris, CA 0.50 D 30 Mark Kinser Kinser #5m

Oct 26 Perris, CA 0.50 D 30 Mark Kinser Kinser #5m

1998

Feb 13 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D Cancelled, rained out

Feb 14 Perris, CA 0.50 D Cancelled, rained out

Oct 31 Perris, CA 0.50 D 30 Mark Kinser Kinser #5M

Aug 28 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 20 Sammy Swindell Swindell #1

Aug 29 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Sammy Swindell Swindell #1

Sep 4 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Jac Haudenschild Elden #22

Sep 5 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 5 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Stevie Smith Smith #19

Sep 11 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 12 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Danny Lasoski Roth #83

Sep 17 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Randy Tinder Tiner #83T

Sep 18 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Jac Haudenschild Elden #22

Sep 19 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Jac Haudenschild Elden #22

1999

Feb 19 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Danny Lasoski Roth #83

Feb 20 Perris, CA 0.50 D 30 Johnny Herrera DOCC Mtrspt #1BK

Aug 27 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 20 Danny Lasoski Roth #83

Aug 28 San Jose, CA 0.50 D 30 Jac Haudenschild Elden #22

Sep 3 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Sammy Swindell Swindell #1

Sep 4 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Danny Lasoski Roth #83

Sep 5 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Sammy Swindell Swindell #1

Sep 10 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 11 Santa Maria, CA 0.33 D 40 Jason Statler ATM/Rios #00

Sep 16 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Tim Kaeding McMillen #10T

Sep 17 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Andy Hillenburg Hillenburg #2

Sep 18 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 40 Jac Haudenschild Elden #22

Oct 30 Perris, CA 0.50 D 30 Craig Dollansky Dollansky #7

2000

Feb 25 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Johnny Herrera DOCC Motorsports #20

Feb 26 Lake Perris, CA 0.50 D 30 Danny Lasoski Roth Racing #83

Sep 1 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D Preliminary Feature Rained Out

Sep 2 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 20 Jac Haudenschild Elden #22

Sep 3 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Danny Lasoski Roth Racing #83

Sep 8 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Joey Saldana Saldana #17

Sep 9 Watsonville, CA 0.25 D 30 Joey Saldana Saldana #17

Sep 14 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Tim Shaffer Helm #11H

Sep 15 Silver Dollar, Chino, CA 0.25 D 25 Daryn Pittman Pittman #3

2001

Feb 23 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Andy Hillenburg Hillenburg #2

Feb 24 Perris, CA 0.50 D Rained Out

Aug 28 Kings, Hanford, CA 0.33 D 30 Stevie Smith Smith #19

Aug 29 Watsonville, CA 0.25 D 40 Andy Hillenburg Hillenburg #2

Aug 31 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 25 Jeff Shepard Forbrook #5

Sep 1 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 25 Andy Hillenburg Hillenburg #2

Sep 2 Calistoga, CA 0.50 D 30 Jeff Shepard Forbrook #5

Sep 6 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 30 Jeff Shepard Forbrook #5

Sep 7 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 30 Stevie Smith Smith #19

Sep 8 Silver Dollar, Chico, CA 0.25 D 40 Mark Kinser Kinser #5M

2002

Feb 22 Kings Speedway, Calif. 0.33 D 30 Danny Lasoski Stewart #20

Feb 23 Perris, CA 0.50 D 30 Daryn Pittman Seer-Don #21

Aug 30 Calistoga Speedway, CA 0.50 D 25 Mark Kinser Kinser #5m

Aug 31 Calistoga Speedway, CA 0.50 D 25 Tim Shaffer Roth #83

Sep 1 Calistoga Speedway, CA 0.50 D 30 Daryn Pittman Sher-Don #21

Sep 2 Watsonville Speedway, CA 0.25 D 30 Brad Furr Furr #2

Sep 5 Silver Dollar Speedway, CA 0.25 D 25 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Sep 7 Silver Dollar Speedway, CA 0.25 D 25 Tim Kaeding Cowan #7T S

Sep 7 Silver Dollar Speedway, CA 0.25 D 40 Steve Kinser Kinser #11

Member of this message board since 1997

Williams Grove VS WoO through 2005 (all I have). I will post VS all of PA later...

Sep 24 1978 - Kramer Williamson - Apple House #41

Jul 27 1979 - Lynn Paxton

May 16 1980 - Sammy Swindell - Jeffrey #91

Jul 25 1980 - Bill Stief - Lloyd #461

Jul 26 1980 - Ketih Kauffman - Weikert #29

Jun 5 1981 - Steve Kinser - Kinser Bros #11

Jun 12 1981 - Steve Kinser - Kinser Bros #11

May 13 1982 - Sammy Swindell - Nance #1N

May 14 1982 - Bobby Allen - Allen #1a

May 21 1982 - Bobby Allen - Allen #1a

May 26 1983 - Bobby Davis, Jr. - Weikert #29

May 27 1983 - Bobby Davis, Jr. - Weikert #29

Aug 4 1983 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Aug 5 1983 -Sammy Swindell - Beadle #1

May 24 1984 -Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

May 25 1984 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Aug 1 1984 - Sammy Swindell - Beadle #1

Aug 2 1984 - Brad Doty - Stanton 75

Aug 3 1984 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

May 24 1985 - Keith Kauffman - Hamilton #77

May 31 1985 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Aug 1 1985 - Sammy Swindell - Beadle #1

Aug 2 1985 - Doug Wolfgang - Weikert #29

May 22 1986 - Doug Wolfgang - Weikert #29

May 23 1986 - Doug Wolfgang - Weikert #29

May 30 1986 - Bobby Allen - Allen #1a

Jul 31 1986 - Jac Haudenschild - Saucier #1ST

Aug 1 1986 - Bobby Allen - Allen #1a

May 22 1987 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

May 29 1987 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Jul 30 1987 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Jul 31 1987 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

May 26 1988 - Bobby Davis, Jr. - Luna #10

May 27 1988 - Bobby Davis, Jr. - Luna #10

June 3 1988 - Mark Kinser - Reid #6r

July 28 1988 - Chris Eash - Eash #17e

July 29 1988 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

May 25 1989 - Bobby Allen - Allen #1a

May 26 1989 -Sammy Swindell - Annett #1

Jun 2 1989 - Bobby Allen - Allen #1a

Jul 27 1989 - Bobby Davis, Jr. - Luna #10

Jul 28 1989 - Bobby Davis, Jr. - Luna #10

Sep 29 1989 - Stevie Smith - Hamilton #77

Sep 30 1989 - Stevie Smith - Hamilton #77

May 24 1990 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

May 25 1990 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Jun 1 1990 - Sammy Swindell - Annett #1

Aug 2 1990 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Aug 3 1990 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Sep 28 1990 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Sep 29 1990 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

May 24 1991 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

May 31 1991 - Sammy Swindell - Annett #1

Aug 1 1991 -Mark Kinser - Williams #5m

Aug 2 1991 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Oct 5 1991 - Sammy Swindell - Annett #1

Oct 6 1991 - Stevie Smith - Hamilton #77

May 21 1992 - Mark Kinser - Williams #5M

May 22 1992 - Donnie Kreitz, Jr - Kreitz #69K

May 29 1992 - Donnie Kreitz, Jr - Kreitz #69K

Jul 30 1992 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Jul 31 1992 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Oct 2 1992 - Keith Kauffman - Wintermyer #1W

Oct 3 1992 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

May 27 1993 - Dave Blaney - Luna #10

May 28 1993 - Don Kreitz, Jr. - Knelt #69k

Jun 4 1993 - Dave Blaney - Luna #10

Aug 5 1993 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Oct 1 1993 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Oct 3 1993 - Don Kreitz, Jr. - Kreitz 69

May 26 1994 - Dave Blaney - Luna #10

May 27 1994 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Jun 3 1994 - Andy Hillenburg - Hillenburg #2

Aug 4 1994 - Sammy Swindell - Gilliam #1

Aug 5 1994 - Sammy Swindell - Gilliam #1

Sep 30 1994 - Lance Dewease - Dyer #461

Oct 1 1994 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

May 26 1995 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Aug 3 1995 - Dave Blaney - Luna #10

Aug 4 1995 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5m

Sep 29 1995 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5m

Sep 30 1995 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5m

May 24 1996 - Johnny Herrera - Sonner #47

May 25 1996 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5M

May 31 1996 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Aug 1 1996 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Aug 2 1996 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5M

Oct 4 1996 - Lance Dewease - Dyer #461

Oct 5 1996 - Lance Dewease - Dyer #461

May 22 1997 - Sammy Swindell - Swindell #1

May 23 1997 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5m

May 30 1997 - Jac Haudenschild - Elden #22

Jul 31 1997 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5m

Aug 1 1997 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5m

Oct 3 1997 - Sammy Swindell - Swindell #1

Oct 4 1997 - Sammy Swindell - Swindell #1

May 21 1998 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5M

May 22 1998 - Johnny Herrera - Sonner #47

May 29 1998 - Stevie Smith - Smith #19

Jul 30 1998 - Cancelled, rain

Jul 31 1998 - Kevin Gobrecht - Zemaitis #1Z

Oct 2 1998 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5M

Oct 3 1998 - Cancelled, rain

May 27 1999 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5M

May 28 1999 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Jul 29 1999 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5M

Jul 30 1999 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5M

Oct 1 1999 - Cris Eash - E&G Classics #17E

Oct 2 1999 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5M

May 18 2000 - Mark Kinser - Kinser #5M

May 19 2000 - Fred Rahmer - Hamilton #77

Jul 27 2000 - Lance Dewease - Harz #88H

Jul 29 2000 - Sammy Swindell - Swindell #1

Sep 29 2000 - Steve Kinser - Kinser #11

Sep 30 2000 - Donny Schatz - Schatz #15

May 18 2001 - Donny Schatz - Schatz #15

Jul 26 2001 - Donny Schatz - Schatz #15

Jul 27 2001 - Don Kreitz, Jr - Kreitz #69

Sep 28 2001 - Tim Shaffer - Helm #11H

Sep 29 2001 - Lance Dewease - Harz #88H

May 16 2002 – Steve Kinser – Kinser #11

Sep 27 2002 – Lance Dewease – Hamilton #77

Jul 24 2003 – Don Kreitz Jr. – Kreitz #69k

Jul 25 2003 – Donny Schatz –Schatz #15

Oct 3 2003 – Donny Schatz – Schatz #15

Oct 4 2003 – Steve Kinser – Kinser #11

May 27 2004 – Fred Rahmer – Hartz #88H

May 28 2004 – Don Kreitz Jr. – Kreitz #69k

Jul 23 2004 – Lance Dewease – Hamilton #77

Jul 24 2004 – Danny Lasoski – Stewart #20

Oct 1 2004 – Mark Smith – Zemco #1Z

Oct 2 2004 – Donny Schatz – Schatz #15

May 26 2005 – Craig Dollansky – Karavan #7

May 27 2005 – Steve Kinser – Kinser #11

Jul 21 2005 – Jason Johnson – Klien #22

Jul 22 2005 – Paul McMahan – Helm #11H

Jul 23 2005 – Fred Rahmer – Hartz #88H

Sep 30 2005 – Fred Rahmer – Hartz #88H

Oct 1 2005 – Donny Schatz – Schatz #15

Member of this message board since 1997

Someone help me out here. I do not know the local guys from either place prior to about 1990. I counted 51 total CA wins(out of 344), and 23 PA(out of 137) wins at Williams Grove for a total of 17% add the other races since 2005 plus the wins and recalculate. I added in the rest of the races from where Hawker left off to present for CA giving them an 18% win ratio overall. It will be interesting to see the figures for all of PA and the win percentage.

That may be wrong though as I may have missed some local guys. Such as I don't know were Bobby Allen or Bobby Davis Jr. are from. Likewise with Jack Hewitt. Same goes for Williams Grove. In both cases there may have been touring cars from one or the other state that won that I am not aware of.

Hawker you the man. Don't know were you get those stats from but thanks for saving me a bunch of time I could probably spend being constructive.

BRR I like debate. Not into personal attacks on people or drivers though like I have said. You have probably noticed that about my posting. No sermons here. I do believe you guys have great racing there just as I believe we have great racing here in CA. I think debates like these help to promote the sport. Everybody wants to the underdog to win and when they think their local underdog can do it they will show up to witness it first hand. I can't wait until I live closer and can visit on a regular basis. That goes for Indiana and Ohio too. And once I move to Iowa I will be a strong supporter of them as well.

Unfortunately I don't ussually sit down for a beer until an hour or two after the race. To many other commitments to honor first. But I am sure I can find you in camp afterwards.

TWO - I can't talk about ADD because I have it probably worse than anyone on this board.

No bone in this dog fight! but Were the early shows at Ascot winged or non winged I know it was a option then. I got a teeshirt that doesn't't fit now{it has the red sleaves} but it has a non wing car on it ? another question I hate to dig it out if I could find it what year did Bobby Allen have the track record at the two most famous tracks on the East and West coast? Hey Neligan howYa {as they say in Jersey }Doin? Listened to that CD lately

Bobby Allen = posse

Bobby Davis JR. = Tennessee (if memory serves me right)

Jack Hewitt = Ohio

...

FYI: when i attend races in Ohio and parts unknown, i STILL cheer for the locals / underdogs.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

Early Ascot races were non-wing. Dean Thompson, Rick Goudy, Buster Venard, and etc. were strictly non-wingers.

I really miss Ascot. After Ascot, Perris Auto Speedway was opened which is another great track too. I make it down every year for the Oval Nationals, a must on my list.

"Just the facts ma'am", Sgt. Joe Friday, Detective, 
LAPD

Baltimore you wild man, how in the health are ya'? I've played that tape a couple of times getting nothing but laughs and a few unfriendly looks from the politically correct bozos. I should have used it last weekend when I worked the motorcycle races sponsored by HOG, the Harley Owners Group, they woulda loved it.

As for the debate, whatever. The most renowned PA stats man (still living there) Bill Meyer once did a survey and came up with the number Outlaws 79%, I value his judgment most.

Bottom line, the CA drivers like Meyers and TK have gone out and won on the road and are heads above any current Posse driver. Last year TK won 15 A-Mains with the NST while Lucas ran mid-pack and this year he's the Posse's best, that tells me something.

More importantly, who cares, just go to the races and cheer these special humans putting their lives on the lines week after week, it's all good. Take It Easy....