Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Hawker ... the hand out of MSD boxes is a great idea .....can't work out why they haven't done it already..........I agree with that 100%

you are assuming the t/c is in the msd. that still does nothing to the fact that slipping sliding spinning cars that can't go forward are no fun to watch. especially when a couple of teams will figure out how to set up better and dominate. you guys talk about the good ol days. then you wan't a bunch of goofy freakin rules to try to make things "equal". HA. then you bash on nascar for being follow the leader cause all the cars are so equal. HA. in the good ol days they had no goofy freakin rules and you guys think that was the best racin ever. the outlaws put a 410 limit in place because they run all over the place and in the early days they had to carry so many different engine sizes cause in different parts of the country different engine sizes were used by the tracks. that was the first step in trying to cut engine costs. the local racer is not going to be able to compete in expieriance with the outlaws. if you don't race 100 times a year at 50 fifferent tracks how can you? and then you talk of putting everyone on hard tires. who do you think is going to figure that out better, the local guy or the guy who races 100 times a year on 50 tracks? hell the outlaws love slick freakin tracks as it is. then you go and put hard tires on them? HA. the local guy will really get his but kicked then. the thing that makes the outlaws unique in motor sports is the local racer can race his car against the heros of his sport. you can't do that in any other major motor sport. a weekly pavement stock car guy can't race against the cup guys. a local sprint racer can take the same car he runs every week and race against the same cars the top names in sprint cars race every week. the reason that the outlaws kick the locals butt most of the time is the same reason that teams like schatz, saldana,and kinser kick the other outlaws butts. they are better.

Make no mistake the Outlaw driver is pretty much superior to many local drivers all across the country but a person can not tell me that money and equipment dont play a major role in this very situation. Its just an argument that can go on till hell freezes over.

So...I am still trying to figure out how every sprint car race is a freight train. Rubber down dustbowl freight train racing and then wet tacky freight train racing. sounds like we would be better off racing locomotives!!! As far as the ignitions, not all cars run MSD either. A few years back they were selling a harness and switch for MSD ignitions that would run your timing off of either the cam or a crank trigger. set the cam timing about 4-6 degrees less than the crank timing and TADA!!!! easy, and legal traction control. As far as I know this setup is still available...

not to be a stick in the mud but you guys are looking in the wrong place here. it is not so much the cars that the outlaw teams have as it is the teams that are fielding the cars. sure some teams do different things to their cars. but it is not so much a matter of money as it is a matter of know how. most teams get the same car anyone else can get. the only thing some teams do is make sure the same welder welds all their cars just to try to keep some consistency. as far as motors go i'm sure that motor builders have their pet customers. but they still have to give all their customers their moneys worth. that is why some teams are building their own motors, to keep what they know from being used against them. you have to remember the traveling teams do this for a LIVING. even if it is just a hobby to some of the owners, to the guys that run the teams it is their JOB. some are saying that paulie mac is doing better since ricky warner has been helping. so do you think the cars have changed or the motors too? we have a team on the outlaws. we have one of the best drivers out there. we have good motors and cars. hell we even have bonzai lol. but we still get our butts kicked half the time.that is by no means a slap to our guys on the road. they work hard and they do the best they can. right now some teams just have it figured out better. these guys that are fast WANT you to look everywhere EXCEPT in the right place to find out why they are fast. and since most teams on the local level think it has to be the car or the motor that is beating them (most local drivers and crew chiefs think they are just as good as the outlaws! just ask them!) that is just fine with the outlaw teams. hell karl kinser would sometimes take his bars out of the car, let it set for a while , then put the SAME bars right back in the car just to watch everyone dial themselves out. monkey see monkey do. ever wonder how come your local racer that goes out on the outlaw tour for a while and pays attention gets better when they come back home?

I've watched IMCA modified drivers sell $3000 motors for a $300 claim. If a guy with money wants to spend it to win claim rules will not stop them.

you want to have the tracks or promoters hand out MSD boxes to try and keep TC out of the equation what is going to happen when one of those boxes takes a shit and someone drops out is the track or promoter going to " pay " them for their box being junk it is a different story when it is your box that takes you out of a race

I agree with you team wright-one. With one particular crew chief, I can only laugh at some of the tactics he uses to distract the opposition. Karl Kinser was a master at it. He would come up with something and next week the other teams would have the same thing on their car. What was so funny was, the thing that he changed was not the thing that he changed. LOL

I liked your line, "You guys are looking in the wrong place."

It does take money and good equipment but it takes more than those things.
You hit the nail on the head when you said, "It's takes know how."

You can have all the money and good equipment in the world but if you don't have the know how, well, you just have money and good equipment but no championships!

Some crew chiefs out there today learned from the master crew chief himself, Karl Kinser. That's how he won championships, with his know how. I miss him giving interviews too don't you?

i don't pretend to know everything. i just do know that i have been involved at all levels of the sport and it seems the higher up you go is where you find the people who seem to "get it" with respect to understanding how things work. they know there are no magic secrets (well there are a few) just the basic knowlage of the cars and how to read tracks and set up for them. you are correct when you say that some of the younger set up guys have learned from the masters. karl, leonard mc carl, kenny woodruff, those guys knew what to do.they knew how to use their heads as well as their wallets to make a car go fast. give some credit to the drivers too. you have to have a driver that can run the car like it should be ran. you can't expect a person who bowls once a week to do as well as one who does it for a living. same for playing pool or golf or baseball. so why do people expect it to be different in sprint cars? that is just how i have come to see it.

What do you do now when your box takes a dump? You lick your wounds and move on.

It seems to many of those on this thread that everything is just fine, the racing and track prep is better than it ever has been and no change is needed.

Well, I guess I just grew up in a different place and time, because the racing and track prep is about as bad as I have seen for the last 6 or 7 years.

As far as the difference in the local racer and the guys running with national or even regional sanctions go... Yes, experience does count, there is no denying that. Also, no matter what you do to the cars, tire, engine, wing or weight wise, the cream will always rise to the top.

My point is this. How in the hell do you ever expect to attract new fans to the sport when a first timer shows up and gets "tared & feathered". I can tell you what happens. Every year, I usually expose 3 to 4 people to the sport and 99% of the time, the track conditions have been the deciding factor on whether they return. Walk out of the pits once in a while and take a close look at the folks in the stands. 90% of them are not Spring chickens. When they are gone, what's next?

Member of this message board since 1997

i thought this thread was about comparing outlaws to locals and how to make it more even. not about the renovation of the whole freakin sport. as far as the the ignition box deal the poster does have a point. if it's your box and you are responsible for it's reliability and it takes a dump that is one thing. but don't tell me there would not be words and hard feelings if schatz was leading the nats and his msd box supplied by woo failed.or any other part that was mandated and supplied by woo. and again i say you are assuming the t/c is in the msd box. the folks who make t/c are figuring ways to put chips in places you would never dream of looking. and with wireless t/c there is not even any tell-tale connection points. if they start supplying boxes the folks will just figure a way around it. i have been reading up on that stuff to try to figure out if we are getting beat by it lol. if you start artificially making everyone too competitive you will get even more follow the leader stuff. and by trying to even things out with too many rules is creating artificial competition. your remarks about track prep, while however valid they may be, have no bearing on the local racer vs. the outlaws when it comes to follow the leader racing. but i do feel your frustration lol. i still think most 1/2 mile tracks are just follow the leader waiting to happen. give me a good 1/4 or 3/8 any day.