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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Topic: Couple of random questions Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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StockKarKid
December 13, 2012 at 10:12:03 PM
Joined: 10/20/2012
Posts: 52
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It is the off season so my mind wanders a bit, and i figured we could use the conversation material, which leads me to my questions: To anyone's knowledge thru the course of history, has there ever been any "experimenting" with different engine layouts in sprintcars/midgets? I.E flat 4's, straight 6, etc. I have heard of V-6's in sprint cars anything else? Also do Silver crown cars have clutches? Reason I ask, I saw a video where the car slowed to a stop and then took off on it's own, so it appears it has a clutch of some sort just curious as to the specifics. Any and all responses are appreciated.


Jake B.
December 13, 2012 at 11:25:40 PM
Joined: 10/21/2005
Posts: 526
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This message was edited on December 13, 2012 at 11:26:23 PM by Jake B.

Way back in the day, before the Chevy V8 took over in the mid 60s the Offenhauser engine (aka "Offy" ) was the top-line engine for sprint cars, champ cars, and midgets. It was a straight 4 setup of some sort (sorry, don't know the exact details on it). There was also a lot more experimentation back then as to types of engines because most of the cars were homemade so the owners used whatever they could.

Regarding the Silver Crown cars, they do have clutches. The cars are turned over with an external starter (similar to an Indy car, only it's started from the front of the car instead of the rear). Because they're not generally push started, they need the clutch to get going.


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motorhead748
December 14, 2012 at 04:36:03 AM
Joined: 08/05/2010
Posts: 605
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Not that far back Glenn Niebel had a chevy V6 pavement sprinter that was quite successful.. Also the Hoffmans had a Buick V6 sprint than ran usac with several prominent drivers that was also quite successful. Both of these cars were around in the late 80`s early 90`s.

Ben Cook had a chevy V6 winged sprint that ran on dirt against 410`s. It typically wouldnt qualify up front but once they made it too the feature where it was a little drier and slicker it usually went to the front. I believe Steve Siegal was the driver, i couldnt say if it ever won but I sure wouldnt be surprised as fast as he went by me one nite.

Go back a little further in history and you can find numerous engine combinations.




BIGFISH
MyWebsite
December 14, 2012 at 05:46:58 AM
Joined: 01/02/2007
Posts: 5252
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This message was edited on December 14, 2012 at 05:49:33 AM by BIGFISH
Reply to:
Posted By: Jake B. on December 13 2012 at 11:25:40 PM

Way back in the day, before the Chevy V8 took over in the mid 60s the Offenhauser engine (aka "Offy" ) was the top-line engine for sprint cars, champ cars, and midgets. It was a straight 4 setup of some sort (sorry, don't know the exact details on it). There was also a lot more experimentation back then as to types of engines because most of the cars were homemade so the owners used whatever they could.

Regarding the Silver Crown cars, they do have clutches. The cars are turned over with an external starter (similar to an Indy car, only it's started from the front of the car instead of the rear). Because they're not generally push started, they need the clutch to get going.



You left out Indy cars, though some champ "dirt" cars ran Indy and the fairgrounds.

In 1935, Miller's former employees, Fred Offenhauser and Leo Goosen, had already achieved their first win with the soon-to-become famous 4-cylinder Offenhauser or "Offy" engine. This motor was forever connected with the Brickyard's history with a to-date record total of 27 wins, in both naturally aspirated and supercharged form, and winning a likewise record-holding 18 consecutive years between 1947 and 1964.


Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
December 14, 2012 at 06:01:01 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5584
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This message was edited on December 14, 2012 at 06:01:37 AM by StanM
I saw some when I was a kid with Ranger aircraft engines and Offies but they were both giving way to the V8's. They used to run a class called Semimodifieds in the early 60's with straight 6's that were a step down from the Supermodifieds.
Stan Meissner

Humpin2please
December 14, 2012 at 07:20:47 AM
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 226
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Reply to:
Posted By: StockKarKid on December 13 2012 at 10:12:03 PM
It is the off season so my mind wanders a bit, and i figured we could use the conversation material, which leads me to my questions: To anyone's knowledge thru the course of history, has there ever been any "experimenting" with different engine layouts in sprintcars/midgets? I.E flat 4's, straight 6, etc. I have heard of V-6's in sprint cars anything else? Also do Silver crown cars have clutches? Reason I ask, I saw a video where the car slowed to a stop and then took off on it's own, so it appears it has a clutch of some sort just curious as to the specifics. Any and all responses are appreciated.


I have a straight 6 that sat between the rails of the sprint car ..I bought the car back in the 70s ..it is sitting in the back of my shop its a mopar with tons of torque.The car was raced at the old Lakeside speedway in KC. I ran it a handfull of times at Midwest speedway in Lincoln Ne against the v8s. Did some research and the car was a old Pappy Weld car and it now rests along side the motor in the back of the shop,




Jake B.
December 14, 2012 at 07:24:35 AM
Joined: 10/21/2005
Posts: 526
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Reply to:
Posted By: BIGFISH on December 14 2012 at 05:46:58 AM

You left out Indy cars, though some champ "dirt" cars ran Indy and the fairgrounds.

In 1935, Miller's former employees, Fred Offenhauser and Leo Goosen, had already achieved their first win with the soon-to-become famous 4-cylinder Offenhauser or "Offy" engine. This motor was forever connected with the Brickyard's history with a to-date record total of 27 wins, in both naturally aspirated and supercharged form, and winning a likewise record-holding 18 consecutive years between 1947 and 1964.



I was going to go into the history of how Silver Crown cars are what used to be Indy cars until the roadsters came along for pavement racing and then the rear engine revolution, but I thought that might be more than the OP was looking for. I'm a relatively young guy but I used to read some of the history stuff in Open Wheel when I was a kid so I've got a good appreciation for the history of our beloved sport. Thanks for filling in the details on the Offy.


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BIGFISH
MyWebsite
December 14, 2012 at 09:51:10 AM
Joined: 01/02/2007
Posts: 5252
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This message was edited on December 14, 2012 at 09:56:31 AM by BIGFISH
Reply to:
Posted By: Jake B. on December 14 2012 at 07:24:35 AM

I was going to go into the history of how Silver Crown cars are what used to be Indy cars until the roadsters came along for pavement racing and then the rear engine revolution, but I thought that might be more than the OP was looking for. I'm a relatively young guy but I used to read some of the history stuff in Open Wheel when I was a kid so I've got a good appreciation for the history of our beloved sport. Thanks for filling in the details on the Offy.



There was a lot of inovation in the years after the war when Indy opened back up. There some good stuff here about Andy's bad ass Novi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novi_engine


Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

Jake B.
December 14, 2012 at 10:33:32 AM
Joined: 10/21/2005
Posts: 526
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Ok, now I'm officially hijacking the thread...my apologies to the OP.

Seeing that pic of Hurtubise made me wonder - does anyone have an pics of his Mallard that he tried to qualify at Indy near the end of his career? Don't think I've ever seen one (not that I've looked).


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Bubzilla
December 14, 2012 at 11:29:56 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 214
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This message was edited on December 14, 2012 at 11:32:08 AM by Bubzilla
Reply to:
Posted By: Jake B. on December 14 2012 at 10:33:32 AM

Ok, now I'm officially hijacking the thread...my apologies to the OP.

Seeing that pic of Hurtubise made me wonder - does anyone have an pics of his Mallard that he tried to qualify at Indy near the end of his career? Don't think I've ever seen one (not that I've looked).




* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

No matter where you go, there you are.

CRA91
December 14, 2012 at 12:44:42 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 428
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Silver Crown cars back in the day ran a V 8 dual overhead cam Ford motor,if my memory is correct I think A.J Foyt used to run one of those motors in the sixties.



Bubzilla
December 14, 2012 at 04:28:58 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 214
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This message was edited on December 14, 2012 at 04:30:12 PM by Bubzilla
Reply to:
Posted By: CRA91 on December 14 2012 at 12:44:42 PM

Silver Crown cars back in the day ran a V 8 dual overhead cam Ford motor,if my memory is correct I think A.J Foyt used to run one of those motors in the sixties.



Foyt's 4-cam champ dirt car....

....which is this motor:


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

No matter where you go, there you are.


Bubzilla
December 14, 2012 at 04:35:27 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 214
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This message was edited on December 14, 2012 at 04:36:14 PM by Bubzilla

My apologies.

That's Leader Cards' sprint car with a 4-cammer in it.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

No matter where you go, there you are.

Brisco Darling
December 14, 2012 at 08:38:56 PM
Joined: 11/23/2012
Posts: 39
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I was involved with NARC all thru the 80's. I remember Dwayne Starr trying to run a blower on a 410. It was short lived. It seemed to have major heating problems. About that time Casey Luna came along with a Ford power sprinter. The car went thru many drivers. It became known as "The Penalty Box".



StockKarKid
December 14, 2012 at 11:35:40 PM
Joined: 10/20/2012
Posts: 52
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Awesome stuff, very informative. Thanks to everyone who has replied. On the Silver Crown cars, do they still use an in and out style gear box just with a clutch? or do they use something closer to like a Brinn or Bert that's used in modifieds/latemodels Again Thank you for all the contribution. helps the winter pass a little faster lol.


Hawker
December 15, 2012 at 01:13:04 AM
Joined: 11/23/2004
Posts: 2809
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Back in the day at Tulsa Speedway when I used to turn some wrenches, some of the Super Modifieds ran the old CrowerGlide clutch with an ARC in/out box. They also ran Modifieds, not like the doorbangers of today though. These were "Supers", but with a 6 cylinder engine. The Ford straight 6 was the "hot setup" for a long time, due to the cross flow head, but when the V6 engines came along, they dominated.
Member of this message board since 1997

Titus
December 15, 2012 at 12:11:49 PM
Joined: 12/22/2004
Posts: 70
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Reply to:
Posted By: Brisco Darling on December 14 2012 at 08:38:56 PM

I was involved with NARC all thru the 80's. I remember Dwayne Starr trying to run a blower on a 410. It was short lived. It seemed to have major heating problems. About that time Casey Luna came along with a Ford power sprinter. The car went thru many drivers. It became known as "The Penalty Box".



Didn't Bobby Davis jr win the World of Outlaw Championship in it, the year of the split? Or was it a different motor then?

BIGFISH
MyWebsite
December 15, 2012 at 01:58:12 PM
Joined: 01/02/2007
Posts: 5252
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Love him or hate him, Andy was always a inovator and good for our sport.."The Rocket car, driven by Antonio Granatelli, made the half-mile in 31.30 (seconds). Granatelli fired all the rockets in one big blast but matched the speed of the smaller racers for only about a quarter-lap after he had fired the rockets." – Hutchinson News-Herald....http://winfield.50megs.com/Hutch_Nationals/Fair/15Sep1946.htm


Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 


t-dub
MyWebsite
December 15, 2012 at 03:27:30 PM
Joined: 11/06/2005
Posts: 711
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Reply to:
Posted By: Titus on December 15 2012 at 12:11:49 PM
Didn't Bobby Davis jr win the World of Outlaw Championship in it, the year of the split? Or was it a different motor then?


Dave Blaney won the 1995 WoO title driving Casey's Ford powered Vivarin #10. Not sure on the Bobby Davis jr. thing..........


SUPPORT WILDLIFE, go to a sprint car race! 

Jake B.
December 15, 2012 at 04:52:04 PM
Joined: 10/21/2005
Posts: 526
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Reply to:
Posted By: t-dub on December 15 2012 at 03:27:30 PM

Dave Blaney won the 1995 WoO title driving Casey's Ford powered Vivarin #10. Not sure on the Bobby Davis jr. thing..........



Titus is correct. Davis won the WoO title for Luna in 1989 which was the only full season of the WoO/USA split. Davis also won the Kings Royal that year.
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