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Topic: Note to USAC
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October 31, 2012 at
11:09:07 AM
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In particular Kevin Miller. I'm starting to hear that you assholes are back in at Belleville. IF this is the case I hope you had to BEG. Get on your KNEES. After you got in back in 1996 on a looooong list of empty promises none of which were ever fulfilled leading up to the point when you were so rightfully booted from their historic premier event then giving it a year before doing your best to try and drive it into the ground you had better get it effing right from here moving forward. The idea that you got back in after 1. Screwing things up so bad then 2. Using strong arm tactics to slither your way back in sickens me to the core. This next year was supposed to be the 20 year anniversary of my first trip there but I am going to have to think LONG and HARD about whether or not it will happen. The proposal (a big part of which I pitched at least 6 years ago to people involved with the track) to put on a Silver Crown event leading up to the Midget Nationals was pitched to you at least 4 years ago and before you got booted. If this is part of how you got back in and it turns out to be a success how dumb does that make you look? You had the opportunity to do this BEFORE you were shown the door and had you had the sense to take it (I really believe it's a no brainer and always has been) could have had at least 3 years of success with the event. You could have actually DONE SOMETHING to HELP make the event a success instead of the pathetic events that led to your departure. Effing brilliant work. I still maintain that you are little more than a parasite that for whatever reason cannot be eradicated.
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October 31, 2012 at
04:34:49 PM
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Feel better now ?
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October 31, 2012 at
04:37:47 PM
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WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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October 31, 2012 at
07:56:11 PM
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bville was dying without usac. not that i agree with everything they do but this should help get the car counts back up.
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October 31, 2012 at
09:05:50 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: threadkillllllller on October 31 2012 at 11:09:07 AM
In particular Kevin Miller. I'm starting to hear that you assholes are back in at Belleville. IF this is the case I hope you had to BEG. Get on your KNEES. After you got in back in 1996 on a looooong list of empty promises none of which were ever fulfilled leading up to the point when you were so rightfully booted from their historic premier event then giving it a year before doing your best to try and drive it into the ground you had better get it effing right from here moving forward. The idea that you got back in after 1. Screwing things up so bad then 2. Using strong arm tactics to slither your way back in sickens me to the core. This next year was supposed to be the 20 year anniversary of my first trip there but I am going to have to think LONG and HARD about whether or not it will happen. The proposal (a big part of which I pitched at least 6 years ago to people involved with the track) to put on a Silver Crown event leading up to the Midget Nationals was pitched to you at least 4 years ago and before you got booted. If this is part of how you got back in and it turns out to be a success how dumb does that make you look? You had the opportunity to do this BEFORE you were shown the door and had you had the sense to take it (I really believe it's a no brainer and always has been) could have had at least 3 years of success with the event. You could have actually DONE SOMETHING to HELP make the event a success instead of the pathetic events that led to your departure. Effing brilliant work. I still maintain that you are little more than a parasite that for whatever reason cannot be eradicated.
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I would say that you are more than a little jealous and full of yourself.
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October 31, 2012 at
10:21:52 PM
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I went to the Belleville nats in 2009. Had a blast the racing was awesome but the All
Star sprints were the support class. If it wasn't for them I wouldn't of had as much fun. The
midgets only brought 23 cars. USAC or not the midget teams have to commit to burning up an
engine when they make the trip. Seems like the only way to come out of there making $$ is to win
the thing.
-Austin Rankin
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October 31, 2012 at
10:37:54 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: lasoskifan on October 31 2012 at 09:05:50 PM
I would say that you are more than a little jealous and full of yourself.
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Oh absolutely! I have no fucking clue what I am talking about and so green with envy I was able to go trick or treating tonight as the Green Lantern without having to apply any green makeup. I've only been going since 1993 having only missed three since, have friends in the community, and am involved in the Highbanks Hall of Fame and Museum having been so since damned near it's inception. Even with my late start in 1993 I'm very familiar with the history of this race and this race track as well as the city to the point that I can confidently say that I have forgotten more than you will ever know about any of those three things. If that is full of myself then so be it. Jealous of what? The fair and amusements committee having the "wisdom" to see the "error" of their ways and let USAC back in ("wisdom" and fair and amusements committee have never before and never will again outside of this example be used in the same sentence btw)? Hardly. This is the same group of people for the most part that let the fox in the henhouse in the first place. Me jealous of USAC? The word USAC and jealousy in reference to me are another thing that will never happen outside of this post.
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October 31, 2012 at
10:50:22 PM
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This message was edited on
October 31, 2012 at
10:55:43 PM by threadkillllllller
Reply to:
Posted By: cubfan07 on October 31 2012 at 10:21:52 PM
I went to the Belleville nats in 2009. Had a blast the racing was awesome but the All
Star sprints were the support class. If it wasn't for them I wouldn't of had as much fun. The
midgets only brought 23 cars. USAC or not the midget teams have to commit to burning up an
engine when they make the trip. Seems like the only way to come out of there making $$ is to win
the thing.
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And everyone participating in the Chili Bowl leaves with boatloads of cash every time they go (not). Outside of T-shirt sales the only way to come out ahead at that event is to win the thing so while I do see your point about the motors there aren't that many midget races that a team can come out ahead without winning the event. Where has the leadership been to help address the cost of motors in midget racing? The fact is that for far too long people have been looking to USAC for leadership in this area with none having come and I would wager none on the horizon. Belleville magnifies everything that is a problem with midget racing nobody would argue against that. When the answer from so many is "USAC" this and "USAC" that what measurable thing have they done EVER to address the problem that everyone is so aware of? I'm not saying that anyone else really has but if the solution to the problem with the Belleville Midget Nationals is bringing USAC back they need to demonstrate how it is that they are the solution to what is wrong with midget racing too because to me and many others the two issues are attached like inseparable siamese twins. If USAC isn't part of the solution OR part of the problem tell me just what it is that truly justifies their existence at this event? Because their guys will be back? They bring prestige and credibility to the event that would not be there without them? (the event had both before they came along btw) They bring more money to the event? Seriously. I'd like to know
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October 31, 2012 at
11:43:19 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: threadkillllllller on October 31 2012 at 10:50:22 PM
And everyone participating in the Chili Bowl leaves with boatloads of cash every time they go (not). Outside of T-shirt sales the only way to come out ahead at that event is to win the thing so while I do see your point about the motors there aren't that many midget races that a team can come out ahead without winning the event. Where has the leadership been to help address the cost of motors in midget racing? The fact is that for far too long people have been looking to USAC for leadership in this area with none having come and I would wager none on the horizon. Belleville magnifies everything that is a problem with midget racing nobody would argue against that. When the answer from so many is "USAC" this and "USAC" that what measurable thing have they done EVER to address the problem that everyone is so aware of? I'm not saying that anyone else really has but if the solution to the problem with the Belleville Midget Nationals is bringing USAC back they need to demonstrate how it is that they are the solution to what is wrong with midget racing too because to me and many others the two issues are attached like inseparable siamese twins. If USAC isn't part of the solution OR part of the problem tell me just what it is that truly justifies their existence at this event? Because their guys will be back? They bring prestige and credibility to the event that would not be there without them? (the event had both before they came along btw) They bring more money to the event? Seriously. I'd like to know
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The 1/5 mile bullring that is the Chili bowl doesnt burn up engines like a 5/8 high banks oval. The media coverage and atmosphere alone makes most decisions pretty easy. (Tulsa>Belleville) Are you saying it was your idea to have Silver Crown cars at Belleville? Wouldn't really take credit for that. Id rather sit through the Belleville 100 (modifieds)
Want to get back at USAC?
1. Sneak into the races (pretty easy Belleville is a shithole)
2. Brag about it on hoseheads how they didnt get a dime of your money.
-Austin Rankin
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November 01, 2012 at
12:20:57 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubfan07 on October 31 2012 at 11:43:19 PM
The 1/5 mile bullring that is the Chili bowl doesnt burn up engines like a 5/8 high banks oval. The media coverage and atmosphere alone makes most decisions pretty easy. (Tulsa>Belleville) Are you saying it was your idea to have Silver Crown cars at Belleville? Wouldn't really take credit for that. Id rather sit through the Belleville 100 (modifieds)
Want to get back at USAC?
1. Sneak into the races (pretty easy Belleville is a shithole)
2. Brag about it on hoseheads how they didnt get a dime of your money.
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It still costs quite a bit of money to run the Chili Bowl and FAR MORE then there is on the line for those that finish second on back. So, again, your point was? As I understood it in order to come out ahead you have to win the race. The winner of Belleville Midget Nationals has never burned up a motor IN that race (the championship finale) because - well - unless it happened after the checkered fell - they would, well, not have won it. I have friends who were at the Belleville 100 and despite any number of serious issues the event had they all said the racing was pretty damned good. Had I been independently wealthy at the time I would have flown out for that race but of course I had no idea what was about to unfold and how serious a situation it would end up being. I proposed the idea between six and eight years ago to anyone who would listen which included then president Rollie Helmling the idea of a Silver Crown race on the highbanks the Wednesday before the Midget Nationals with the thinking (flawed as you may think it is) that the cars were fast enough yet not as fast as a non-winged sprint car and that the racing might actually be quite good on that track with those cars. Additionally with the history of Belleville there would likely be a large number of people with Silver Crown cars gathering dust that they might actually bring their cars out of retirement just to say that they had their car run on the historic high banks. Furthermore all of the cars and drivers needed to run the Midget Nationals would actually ALREADY be there (what an odd concept, huh?). In any event I told everyone I told this idea to "I don't care who gets credit for the idea - just go make it happen." None of them told me I was nuts and I can assure you that not all of them were friends of mine. Most of them thought it was a "no brainer". People far better positioned within the decision making process of that racetrack have pitched the proceeding idea to USAC. Based on the fact that it didn't come to pass during that period of time obviously USAC passed on it. As for your theory of getting back at USAC you are flawed there as well. USAC doesn't get any part of the front gate from what I understand. They get paid whatever their negotiated sanctioning fee is and the track does the rest. If I were to do what you propose I would be screwing the racetrack and USAC has been doing a fine job of that on their own. As for your opinion of the race track I just consider the source and move on.
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November 01, 2012 at
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I never have been to Belleville, have wanted to go, but way long drive for me. Not trying to get in the argument here, just wanted to stat that the chili bowl has a lot going for it in that its more than a race, its a yearly reunion of everybody that loves open wheel (and other forms) of racing, its in the middle of winter, there is nothing else going on.
Belleville is in the middle of the summer, its hot, there are races going on all over, including that little thing they call Knoxville. It has been on the same weekend as the 360 nationals for the past few years if I remember right. If it wasn't for the chili bowl, nobody would be building midgest anymore, they would be dead.
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November 01, 2012 at
09:40:54 AM
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this is good stuff...USAC has been known to ruin a one car parade..givem' rope!
Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better
weather." Van May
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November 01, 2012 at
11:05:22 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: threadkillllllller on November 01 2012 at 12:20:57 AM
It still costs quite a bit of money to run the Chili Bowl and FAR MORE then there is on the line for those that finish second on back. So, again, your point was? As I understood it in order to come out ahead you have to win the race. The winner of Belleville Midget Nationals has never burned up a motor IN that race (the championship finale) because - well - unless it happened after the checkered fell - they would, well, not have won it. I have friends who were at the Belleville 100 and despite any number of serious issues the event had they all said the racing was pretty damned good. Had I been independently wealthy at the time I would have flown out for that race but of course I had no idea what was about to unfold and how serious a situation it would end up being. I proposed the idea between six and eight years ago to anyone who would listen which included then president Rollie Helmling the idea of a Silver Crown race on the highbanks the Wednesday before the Midget Nationals with the thinking (flawed as you may think it is) that the cars were fast enough yet not as fast as a non-winged sprint car and that the racing might actually be quite good on that track with those cars. Additionally with the history of Belleville there would likely be a large number of people with Silver Crown cars gathering dust that they might actually bring their cars out of retirement just to say that they had their car run on the historic high banks. Furthermore all of the cars and drivers needed to run the Midget Nationals would actually ALREADY be there (what an odd concept, huh?). In any event I told everyone I told this idea to "I don't care who gets credit for the idea - just go make it happen." None of them told me I was nuts and I can assure you that not all of them were friends of mine. Most of them thought it was a "no brainer". People far better positioned within the decision making process of that racetrack have pitched the proceeding idea to USAC. Based on the fact that it didn't come to pass during that period of time obviously USAC passed on it. As for your theory of getting back at USAC you are flawed there as well. USAC doesn't get any part of the front gate from what I understand. They get paid whatever their negotiated sanctioning fee is and the track does the rest. If I were to do what you propose I would be screwing the racetrack and USAC has been doing a fine job of that on their own. As for your opinion of the race track I just consider the source and move on.
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You really are a threadkiller because I find it impossible to reply to your rants and cover every topic. Im nowhere near an expert for USAC or midget racing I'm just saying the problem with Belleville Midget Nats (racing wise) doesnt have much to do with USAC. As I said, Ive been to 1 midget nats. A higher car count would of made the event much better like it was in its glory days. How exactly is USAC screwing Belleville. I dont believe you've actually stated that.
-Austin Rankin
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November 01, 2012 at
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This message was edited on
November 01, 2012 at
12:16:30 PM by threadkillllllller
Reply to:
Posted By: cubfan07 on November 01 2012 at 11:05:22 AM
You really are a threadkiller because I find it impossible to reply to your rants and cover every topic. Im nowhere near an expert for USAC or midget racing I'm just saying the problem with Belleville Midget Nats (racing wise) doesnt have much to do with USAC. As I said, Ive been to 1 midget nats. A higher car count would of made the event much better like it was in its glory days. How exactly is USAC screwing Belleville. I dont believe you've actually stated that.
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It's complicated so I will do my best to keep it as brief as possible. The best car counts in the history of the Midget Nationals happened well before USAC was allowed to sanction the race starting in 1996. Once let in they did little to earn their position as the sanctioning body of the event and while the car count did increase marginally during the early part of their tenure it had nothing to do with their association with the event. It had far more to do with the efforts of people like Marty Boyer and Charlene Meents both of which are inductees in the High Banks Hall of Fame and Museum. Gradually over time and in particular starting with Kevin Miller's tenure as president USAC became less of a "partner" and more like a cheating spouse scheduling races in direct conflict with the event. The two lowest car counts in the history of the event before this year also accured under Miller's tenure right before the decision was made to kick USAC to the curb. USAC left the event alone for one year before scheduling National Sprint Series events in direct conflict to try and strong arm their way back in. Which leads us to today. Not brief but that's about as brief as anyone can accurately answer your question.
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November 01, 2012 at
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So I guessing in the drop in car counts is USAC's fault, correct? If you'll recall they had to move the historic Hut 100 Midget race to Haubstadt from the half-mile of Terre Haute because car owners didn't want to run on a half-mile. Care to explain why the Gold Crown Nationals in Granite City had over 50 entries for a 3 night show a month ago, who cars from 7 states? How come Indiana Midget Week gets over 50 cars for 5 straght nights in June every summer?
Maybe you should vent your frustrations with the powers that be at Belleville, or maybe all your buddies that own Midgets, for the problems they have had of recent years, and not neccessarily at USAC.
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November 01, 2012 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: hosedragger on November 01 2012 at 04:25:42 PM
So I guessing in the drop in car counts is USAC's fault, correct? If you'll recall they had to move the historic Hut 100 Midget race to Haubstadt from the half-mile of Terre Haute because car owners didn't want to run on a half-mile. Care to explain why the Gold Crown Nationals in Granite City had over 50 entries for a 3 night show a month ago, who cars from 7 states? How come Indiana Midget Week gets over 50 cars for 5 straght nights in June every summer?
Maybe you should vent your frustrations with the powers that be at Belleville, or maybe all your buddies that own Midgets, for the problems they have had of recent years, and not neccessarily at USAC.
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I've already said if they aren't the problem and they aren't the solution what justifies their existence in midget racing at all? Not just at Belleville where they were doing fine in the first place without them until they sweet talked their way in but anywhere they still sanction a midget race. It went up the year USAC left them alone then dropped again after they intentionally scheduled races on top of the event for their National Sprint series which anyone involved with the sport for more than a day knows that most of their top drivers run all three divisions. The drop in car counts the two years before they got booted was definitely USAC's fault and that is well documented. There is enough blame to go around and I've been pretty clear on that. They got booted then got back in. Shame on all parties that allowed either event to happen.
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November 01, 2012 at
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I do remember when USAC scheduled races against Belleville, even when it was a sanctioned USAC event. The question I had then and I guess I still have after reading all of these posts is what caused the fallout between USAC and Belleville which led to them scheduling races on top of their own Midget Nationals?
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November 01, 2012 at
05:34:48 PM
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This message was edited on
November 01, 2012 at
05:35:39 PM by BIGFISH
I've already said if they aren't the problem and they aren't the solution what justifies their existence in midget racing at all?
Maybe this knot head!
USAC National Midget Series Champions
- 1956: Shorty Templeman; Pueblo, CA
- 1957: Shorty Templeman; Pueblo, CA
- 1958: Shorty Templeman; Pueblo, CA
- 1959: Gene Hartley; Roanoke, IN
- 1960: Jimmy Davies; Glendale, CA
- 1961: Jimmy Davies; Glendale, CA
- 1962: Jimmy Davies; Glendale, CA
- 1963: Bob Wente; St. Louis, MO
- 1964: Mel Kenyon; Lacon, IL
- 1965: Mike McGreevy; Hoosick, NY
- 1966: Mike McGreevy; Hoosick, NY; #1
- 1967: Mel Kenyon; Lacon, IN; Kenyon #1
- 1968: Mel Kenyon; Lacon, IN; Kenyon #1
- 1969: Bob Tattersall; Pennsbury, PA; Stroud #3
- 1970: Jimmy Caruthers; Anaheim, CA; Caruthers #5
- 1971: Danny Caruthers; Anaheim, CA; Caruthers #5
- 1972: Pancho Carter; Racine, WI; Rieder #81
- 1973: Larry Rice; Crawfordsville, IN; Shannon #2
- 1974: Mel Kenyon; Lacon, IL; Kenyon #61
- 1975: Sleepy Tripp; Costa Mesa, CA; #5
- 1976: Sleepy Tripp; Costa Mesa, CA; #1
- 1977: Mel Kenyon; Lacon, IL; Armstrong #43
- 1978: Rich Vogler; Chicago, IL; Caruthers #2
- 1979: Steve Lotshaw,; Piascik #2
- 1980: Rich Vogler; Chicago, IL; Lockard #69
- 1981: Mel Kenyon; Lacon, IL; Kenyon #61
- 1982: Kevin Olson; Machesney Park, IL; Carey #5
- 1983: Rich Vogler; Chicago, IL; Streicher #4
- 1984: Tom Bigelow; Whitewater, WI; Sandy #16
- 1985: Mel Kenyon; Lacon, IL; Burns #66
- 1986: Rich Vogler; Chicago, IL; Byrd #2
- 1987: Kevin Olson; Machesney Park, IL; Wilke #11
- 1988: Rich Vogler; Chicago, IL ; Byrd #1
- 1989: Russ Gamester; Peru, IN ; Gamester #46
- 1990: Jeff Gordon; Vallejo, CA ; Helmling #4
- 1991: Mike Streicher; Findlay, OH; Streicher #8
- 1992: Stevie Reeves; Speedway, IN ; Wilke #11
- 1993: Stevie Reeves; Speedway, IN ; Lewis #9
- 1994: Tony Stewart; Columbus, IN ; Potter #6
- 1995: Tony Stewart; Columbus, IN ; Lewis #9
- 1996: Kenny Irwin, Jr.; Indianapolis, IN; Lewis #91
- 1997: Jason Leffler; Long Beach, CA; Willoughby #71
- 1998: Jason Leffler; Long Beach, CA; Lewis #9
- 1999: Jason Leffler; Long Beach, CA; Lewis #9
- 2000: Kasey Kahne; Enumclaw, WA ; Lewis #91
- 2001: Dave Darland; Lincoln, IN ; Lewis #9
- 2002: Dave Darland; Lincoln, IN ; Lewis #9
- 2003: J. J. Yeley; Phoenix, AZ; Lewis #9
- 2004: Bobby East; Torrance, CA ; Lewis #9
- 2005: Josh Wise; Riverside, CA ; Stewart #20w
- 2006: Jerry Coons Jr.; Tucson, AZ ; Wilke #11
- 2007: Jerry Coons Jr.; Tucson, AZ ; Wilke-Pak #11
- 2008: Cole Whitt; Alpine, CA; Kunz #71
- 2009: Brad Kuhn; Avon, IN; RW #17B
- 2010: Bryan Clauson; Noblesville, IN; Tucker/Kunz/BCI #39
- 2011: Bryan Clauson; Noblesville, IN; Tucker/Kunz/BCI #39
Half the lies they tell about me aren't true.
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November 01, 2012 at
05:45:17 PM
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I am thinking that somehow, just somehow, it is Danica's fault.......
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November 01, 2012 at
05:53:11 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: maddog53 on November 01 2012 at 05:45:17 PM
I am thinking that somehow, just somehow, it is Danica's fault.......
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Now that's funny!
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