Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

heard a rumor that knoxville is thinking about the racesaver engine rules! you know whats gonna happen after that? knoxville raceway 305 nationals are comin soon!

its about time knoxville stopped screwing around with racecar rules..they have already cost racers large ammounts of cash by allowing ,ported cylinder heads and dry sump engines. they promised to tech engines every week to stop the cheating and we all know that has not happened.now that other 305 clubs have adjusted their rules to suit knoxville, they now want to throw out the new rules and bring on another set ..with a bit of luck they will be able to destroy the 305 division the same way they have the 360 division

prolly be the same rules as the ascs 305 series which is pretty much racesaver rules. that would make for a few ascs 305 tour stops and ascs 305 knoxville nationals!

That would be great if they just ran it as a racesaver class and not followed anyone. Stop using light weight stuff for a cheap 305 class thats suppose to bring fun back into it.

Are there any sites that compare prices for racesaver and non racesaver engines ?

it would make sense in long run. Knoxville is not the only track in Iowa that has non racesaver rules. Burlington is another. If they do change to racesaver I think it would make sense to allow present 305 engines to be used for 1-2 years by restrictors in injectors, and it would not cost much to change dry sump to wet sump. Most cars at Knoxville are wet sump. I think IMCA just went to racesaver rules.

Just get 1 set of rules for the 305's. If we don't, it will die an expensive death!

Hey Mark you are soooo..right.if they start with another set of rules the people who have invested good money this year will most likley walk away

The "Racesaver" rule package actually makes a lot of sense.

Racesaver's zero-tolerance head rule not only helps control cost, but it eliminates the "grey" areas.

They also regulate the crankshaft, oiling system, and other key aspects of the engine build.

Even though there are racesaver teams who insist on outspending their competition, the engine rules make it more difficult to buy wins.

The Racesaver package features the most comprehensive set of controls that I have seen to date. I'm actually a little surprised that more race tracks haven't already adopted them.

I hope Knoxville has the courage to convert before its too late.

Totally agree. Simple rule run a 350 block just make sure it pumps 316 or less and have no titanium in motor. These stronger blocks would last way longer and parts are a dime a dozen. Every aftermarket part on a 305 block has to be custom made. How simple would that be to just have a rule that everyone could build a motor at affordable price.??

The racesaver engine may well be the answer,But please do not miss my point,there are 76 ,305 engines in use NOW in Iowa ,those guys should be given at least a 2 year phase in period.No way can they be told Bad luck guys from the start of next year you will need a racesaver.I am betting that at least half of them will walk then the 305 division will most likely fail

This response post is for info purposes only.

For those that haven't seen the RaceSaver Sprints race on a good sized momentum track (such as Knoxville), your fears of thinking they are just 'lawnmower sprints' because of the engine rules, will quickly evaporate as they put on a very good show.

Here's a quick example of a heat race at LoneStar Speedway (which is a 3/8 mile track) that I took last year...it's a low-res video that I shot from the scorers tower on my iPhone, so it's quite a distance away from the track (which makes it look like the cars are a mile away), but you'll get the feel of it:

http://youtu.be/jiFfq7Qu0Y4

...and BTW, there are 700 registered RaceSaver sprint teams in 2012.

And I just came across another from LoneStar taken from the grandstands, which helps with the fan perspective...if I recall, it was like 105 degrees that day, so conditions were less than perfect:

http://youtu.be/dAYpgFjmjUU

Hope these visuals help give you a clearer idea of the action the RaceSaver sprints provide.

I ALSO AGREE THE RACE SAVER IS THE WAY OF THE FUTURE..BUT IN THIS TOUGH ECONOMY WE CANNOT JUST THROW THE 70 OR SO GUYS THAT HAVE SPENT THEIR HARD EARNED DOLLARS.. UNDER THE BUS..THEY WILL NEED TIME TO CHANGE OVER TO THE RACESAVER PROGRAME...PERHAPS A 100 LB WEIGHT PENALTY FOR THE CURRENT MOTORS FOR THE NEXT 2 YEARS.. WHILE ANY NEW TEAMS THAT START CAN USE THE RACESAVER DEAL

I have a quick question, nothing to stir the pot, just to see how people are comparing the classes. I am trying to figure out how a $12-$15K 305 is not cheap compared to the other options (ex. $30K plus 360 or 410) That looks like a 50% motor cost to me, sounds like a cheap way to start. I am talking about race winning motors, not a home built 360, there are very few of them winning races anymore. The cars are the same, so they will cost the same, the only factor in cost saving is the motor. Like I said, how is a 305 that is less than half of a 360 not a cheap way to start? I am not saying $15K is cheap, but it is a LOT cheaper than $30K plus....

On a side note, I don't think Racesaver is the answer. Spec alum head that will even the class and save money. Where have I heard that before?

A Racesaver engine would make it a lot easier for a guy like me to race a sprint car. The engine cost is what keeps me away from a 305. I see used Racesavers for 5-10k floating around. I can afford that.

The crate engine deal the IMCA uses for a few of their classes is great. Here's the basics of how it works: You buy an engine for $3300. Its a 350 that puts out 350 hp. Put on your own carb, water pump, radiator, etc ($1000). Most people are getting 50-70 nights out of these engines. When its time for a new engine, you sell your crate back to the dealer for $1500. Basically, you trade your old engine and $1800 for a new engine. (not all crate dealers work this way but many do) If something like this existed for sprint cars, I'd be on the track in a month. ....and I'm the kind of person sprint car racing should be attracting as an owner/driver. I'm middle class with a good job. I'm not trying to go broke racing so I own/race a hobbystock but I'd much rather be in a sprint car.

"If you're gonna run the bottom, you might as well get 
a real job."

I agree with you 88sprint, here is my take on it. There are a number of reasons that going to a racesaver type head at Knoxville will be a bad idea. From what I have researched on these heads they will be a huge downgrade as compared to a set of Dart or RHS iron heads which most of the teams are currently running. Even in untouched condition the Darts or RHS heads flow much better then the Racesaver head. The current 305s at Knoxville are already labored to get around with the power they have now, if you go and take 75 hp out of them it WILL look like a lawnmower race. Now I am not saying a "spec" head is a bad idea it may level things out a little, but why do they have to choose one that will rob what little power these engines are making already? If they are going to mandate a specific head they need to find one that is as good or better than what we are currently running now.

Just a side note: In my opinion I think the guys that are always accusing people of cheating and making excuses as to why they always get beat, should instead spend their time working on becoming a better driver and learning how to set up the car. Because 9 out of 10 times that is why you got beat.

HHR10. A 305 block is the same configuration as the 350. Uses the 442 crank for both. Main caps, etc will all bolt on!

Sprints rule

sure, the engine is floating around for 5-10K, but what's it gonna cost you to make that motor run (injection for example)??

From the #'s thrown around on this board by guys that run the Racesaver, it's no cheaper than the current 305 rules that Knoxville runs per the competitors.

As far as the IMCA motor goes, they "tested" a motor during the Harris Clash that was a crate motor. It was fast, I am guessing reliable, but it cost $5000 more ($15000 race ready) than what my brother currently has in his IMCA mod now and what he's running is good enough to win races at most tracks and has made the feature @ Knoxville earlier this year. So the answer is to make guys that are competitive currently spend even more $$ than they do today??

Crate engines are NOT the answer, the only thing they do is pad the pockets of the sanctioning bodies (IMCA, ASCS, etc) in my opinion.

Drivers, Teams, Owners will spend what their budget allows them to spend no matter what the rules are. There are guys with crappy equipment/set-ups that have killer motors that get outran by guys with good equipment/set-ups and decent motors EVERY WEEK across this country in various divisions. The difference between the 2 teams are that one group "thinks" they are getting beat by killer motors and that they have to have one to compete. The other group knows that horsepower does them zero good if their car falls apart or they can't get grip and concentrate on making sure they don't fall out of races due to component failures and making the car get hooked up no matter what the surface is like.