Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

A Main earnings only:

So far this year, all full time teams have put 14881 miles on the haulers (starting @ Barberville and only going from track to track (that includes no ventures back to the shop and doesn't include going from the shop to Barberville to start the season). @ ~ $1 per mile in fuel alone.

I'm gonna say NO TEAM is in the black or even close to it. Gotta respect those car owners that spend their hard earned $$ to have a car out there on the road (it's a $$ losing proposition).

Loose is when you hit the wall with the rear of the
car, tight is when you hit the wall with the front of
the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and
torque is how far you move the wall.

If my math is correct, which it rarley is... So far this year up untill now (Lima), those platinum teams have been paid somewhere around $17,250 in tow money... Thats not including rainouts, which Im sure they don't get paid tow money if a show rains out...

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I think the 12 guys who follow the tour get $500 tow money for each race which helps defer the road costs, but I think it's pretty dead on that unless you sweep all the big money races, you're not breaking even.

Guys like Gravel, Lasoski and TK all have made over $30,000 this year in other parts of the country. TK is even getting the tow money and the tire discount, to feel the void of a California driver not on tour. And he is not even a full time woo driver.

Northern California Sprintcars

I don't think that the purse moneys though are what pay the bills, its the company names on the side of the car thats paying for the fuel and salaries. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the car owners are making big money doing this but I believe sponsorships are what pay the bills. I have heard a couple of times now that the driver gets half the winnings and the team or owner gets half(I would suppose that every driver has a little different contract). So by all rights you can split all those #s in half as paying for parts and fuel so you know theres a larger revenue stream somewhere. The difficult 1 is the car Cody is driving that pretty much has no names on it, which I would guess means Kasey Kahnes checkbook is fully paying the bills on that one.

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Thanks for posting those #s DSC, I hadn't seen those any place else.

http://gph.is/XMLGff

Ok, so Tod Quiring owns Big Game Tree Stands and Sammy's car.

Either way you look at it, it's a $$ loser and they are the biggest $$ winners on the tour this year.

I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that any teams outside of KKR and TSR are pulling in enough sponsor $$'s to cover salaries, expenses, and overhead.

I have no doubt that outside of TSR and KKR, that every single team on the tour is losing $$$ hand over fist.

I believe Jason Meyers said in an interview a couple years ago that you need a budget around $1,000,000 to run the entire WoO Season.

I agree with you Vande and wasn't trying to say that they are making money, just throwing in that the prize money can't be looked at as the only income. Todd does own BigGame and the racing program I'm sure is wrote off by the company as a marketing expense. I'm thankful there are people out there putting money out and possibly losing money so we can enjoy the races!

http://gph.is/XMLGff

TK said a few years ago that when they were on the road they had a $1,000,000 budget and that dropped to $250,000 when sticking to California mostly.

And just think, the WoO are the highest paying series out there by far. Thanks to Big Game, TSR, KKR, and the rest of the car owners for fielding cars, still "The Greatest Show on Dirt"!

no problem.

I think that many of the teams have a decent sponsor $$'s coming in, but a majority are probably still coming straight out of the owners pockets.

Big Game (owns the #1 and is either part owner or sponsor of the #7) - car owner owns the company, so it's all his $$

HendrickCars.com (sponsor of the 11K - first year sponsor, doubt they're spending more than a couple hundred thousand $'s) - Steve paid for car out of his own pocket for an entire SEASON a few years ago, probably still paying some of them, but a sponsor helped a lot (And Kraig running up front helps too)

Bass Pro Shops (sponsor of the #11 for TSR) - Tony has enough small sponsors, big sponsors and product sponsors to pay all the bills in my estimation

Armor All (sponsor of the #15 for TSR) - same as above

Great Clips (sponsor of #9) - same as above

Cody Darrah #4 (Unsponsored) - Kasey is probably footing the bill for a majority of this one

Bill Rose (unsponsored) - footing his own bills (doing more with less than anyone)

Lucas Wolfe (unsponsored) - footing his own bills (struggling but improving yearly)

Chad Kemenah (unsponsored) - footing his own bills (running well, but has had some major crashes which has to be putting a strain on financials)

Kerry Madsen (KENERIC Group) - Keneric is probably footing the bills, but don't know for sure (proably still losing $$)

The business model is broken in my estimation. The teams, WRG, tracks, promotors and sponsors need to figure out something quick or more cars will be lost from the tour. My guess is that 1/2 the cars have maybe another year or so before they just plain run out of $$ and can't afford to be out there anymore and the other 1/2 will be looking for new drivers as their drivers start retiring.

I would love to have at the very least a strong regional team, something like the Tim Shaffer team. However, I'm to much of a business man to piss away the kind of money it takes to race today, for basically the same purses they were racing for almost 20 years ago. I would not expect to make money, I just would not want to spend $150-$200k out of pocket to have fun. So instead I bought a second home in Hilton Head, South Carolina. That doesn't mean if someone can get some sanity back in this sport, I wouldn't jump at the chance to be involved as a car owner, it would certainly check one off the bucket list! Seeing a sprint car that I own and that has my name on it on the track would be incredible. However, I will wait this one out. Now the question is, how many more just like me are out there, and how strong could the sport be if common sense would just be put into play. What do I mean by common sense, tires and engines for a start, get this part under control and you've solved a majority of the problem. There is no way I'm spending $40-$50k on one engine, let alone 3 or 4 of them, and then the rebuild cost after only a few shows. Then $1,000 a night for tires. I can have one hell of a lot of fun in a years time for what it would take to field a strong regional team, so again, until some sanity returns, I will be a spectator and not an owner.

There's no way all the teams are spending $1M per year, agreed KKR and TSR teams are probably spending the most. Big Game must be up there too.

I bet Lucas and Bill Rose spend fractions of what the big teams do.

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#PaulsToTheWall
GO SAMMY!

Keep It Real

Do sponsors get to take tax deductions? Might explain some of it...

Sponsorship changes the balance sheet of a business but it not as easy as saying it is a tax deduction. Using simple numbers for a simple example.

Company A has zero dollars in its marketing budget and at the end of the year after all bills, taxes, and salaries are paid , it makes a 1,000 profit. If the owner wants to take that profit out of the company to put to his race car team. He takes the 1,000 profit as a bonus check and immediately the goverment takes its third and his sprint car team get 667.

Company A now has a 1000 dollars in its markteing budget (which is going to his race car team) and at the end of the year after all bills, taxes and salaries are paid the company makes a 0 profit. The owner does not get a year end bonus check and the goverment does not get any extra revenue.

I know that this is a very simple example and it is much more complex than this, but this is the general plan. For a sprint car driver who owns his own business there are tax advanteges for sponsoring his race team. This would not be the case for BassPro shops. They are sponsoring the car as part of its marketing plan.

doesn't work that way. Your marketing $$'s can only be a certain % of sales or revenue as well (there is a certain ratio that is considered industry standard). you exceed that ratio and you raise red flag to be audited by the Gov't.

HUMONGOUS compaines like Dupont, Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. can spend $20 mil a year on a CUP sponsorship because their total advertising budget is more than likely in the hundreds of millions range.

Take a company like Big Game (which I am guestimating probably has revenue of $25 mil per year tops, their total advertising budget is probably far less than $1 mil, therefore a majority of the $$ being used is coming out of Tod's pockets). His accountants are smart enough to know that if the ratios get off that it costs more $$ in paperwork and man hours than it does for Tod to take out of his pocket. In the long run, it's good for the business that he owns because he's promoting the business he owns using his personal wealth (which in turn, grows his personal wealth).

Casey's sponsorship is a perfect example. Lonnie Parsons and Don Lamerti are both big supporters of Sprint Car Racing, and the #6 carried Casey's colors for YEARS on the WoO circuit. However, this was not a Casey's corporate sponsorship. The $$ came from Lonnie and Don's personal accounts, they just put Casey's on the wing because Lonnie was an executive and Don was the Founder and CEO. Don stated many, many times that he didn't feel that he should be spending company $$ (that has shareholders to answer to) on his hobby, therefore he funded the sponsorship himself. Casey's benefitted immensely from the car carrying their colors, however the founder, major shareholder, and executives benefitted just as much via compensation and bonuses as the Casey's brand got exposure.

Casey's does sponsor many, many local level racing avenues and cars, but all put together probably don't add up to more than $150,000 per year.