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Topic: Group Qualifying at the Devil's Bowl
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June 12, 2012 at
07:20:57 PM
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This message was edited on
June 13, 2012 at
12:10:55 PM by Hulbert
The Lucas Oil American Sprint Car Series presented by MAVTV will be introducing group qualifying at the Devil's Bowl this weekend. Cars will qualify in groups of 4 with line-ups based on their fastest time with a 24 car inversion. According to Emmett Hahn, this will be exclusive to the Devil's Bowl. All other races will use our normal draw format.
Please read down....this has been changed.
After several phone calls and e-mails from drivers and car owners on
both the Lucas Oil ASCS National Tour and our regions, the decision has
been made to keep the normal pill draw to passing points system in place
for this weekends events at the Devil's Bowl Speedway. This will be
used without change at all Lucas Oil ASCS National Tour events for the
remainder of the season. Any changes made will be done during the off
season with the input of our drivers and car owners.
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June 12, 2012 at
10:43:21 PM
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Will be there to experience that......should be interesting. Thanks for update...........
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June 13, 2012 at
08:22:22 AM
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Me too on Saturday.
Look for me TxOutlaw in the pits taking photos (Red Shirt/BNSF Cap).
Jeff
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June 13, 2012 at
08:44:25 AM
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This message was edited on
June 13, 2012 at
09:11:13 AM by lucasprintsfan
Reply to:
Posted By: Hulbert on June 12 2012 at 07:20:57 PM
The Lucas Oil American Sprint Car Series presented by MAVTV will be introducing group qualifying at the Devil's Bowl this weekend. Cars will qualify in groups of 4 with line-ups based on their fastest time with a 24 car inversion. According to Emmett Hahn, this will be exclusive to the Devil's Bowl. All other races will use our normal draw format.
Please read down....this has been changed.
After several phone calls and e-mails from drivers and car owners on
both the Lucas Oil ASCS National Tour and our regions, the decision has
been made to keep the normal pill draw to passing points system in place
for this weekends events at the Devil's Bowl Speedway. This will be
used without change at all Lucas Oil ASCS National Tour events for the
remainder of the season. Any changes made will be done during the off
season with the input of our drivers and car owners.
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I think this will be a positive and is well overdue. It seems like every ASCS show you see one or two stacked heats with all of the National tour guys in the same heat and then you have 2-3 other heats with all of the local drivers and hardly any National guys. Thats not what people pay money to see and drive several hours each way to see. I think timing should be done at every track that has the capability of doing so. The draw system doesn't reward the guy that has his stuff together and has a great night. I have seen many high point drivers draw the 8 pill for the redraw and have to start behind drivers that started on the front of row of a heat with no fast cars in it. The drivers should earn the right to start on the front of the feature. Thats what fans assume will happen and thats what they want to see. And if ASCS insists on using the draw system, let the top 8 points drivers run a dash to determine the starting position for the feature. Wait....that would be giving fans more racing and more of a show and we dont want to spoil the fans do we?
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June 13, 2012 at
09:10:28 AM
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We can argue pill draw versus qualifying till the cows come home both have positives and negatives However, changing the rules in the middle of the season for one race track only does not make any sense.
It seems that ASCS are making a lot more mid stream changes than ever before.
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June 13, 2012 at
09:47:49 AM
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Thx for the post Bryan, i think Emmett is FINALLY looking for another way.
Personally i hate the pill draw(as do most of the drivers).
The whole ASCS format is very confusing to the average fan, leaving them lost as to what is going on. Many a time i have heard fans say, that car finished second in the heat race and they are in the "B".
As i see it the biggest problem, dwindling car counts and fans, or the lack there of.
Fix it, its broke
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June 13, 2012 at
10:09:42 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: n2sprints on June 13 2012 at 09:47:49 AM
Thx for the post Bryan, i think Emmett is FINALLY looking for another way.
Personally i hate the pill draw(as do most of the drivers).
The whole ASCS format is very confusing to the average fan, leaving them lost as to what is going on. Many a time i have heard fans say, that car finished second in the heat race and they are in the "B".
As i see it the biggest problem, dwindling car counts and fans, or the lack there of.
Fix it, its broke
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I agree that the format is very confusing to fans. Some changes need to be made and soon. The days of big car counts are probably over. With less cars, time trials of some sort would not be that time consuming and would make for a much better show for the fans, which is really what racing is all about. Luck will always be a part of racing. However, luck should not be the main factor in play on a given race night.
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June 13, 2012 at
10:24:15 AM
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Here is a classic PILL DRAW story.
A few years ago at a National Tour race a 305(field filler) in fact about three 305's. One of those guys lucks out and draws the pole of a heat. Early heat race track still heavy, wins heat. makes redraw, draws the pole. Starts the feature, going into turn one, he throws out the anchor, lost it, collects the field. Ask Gary Wright and Danny Woods what happened.............. DNF for both.
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June 13, 2012 at
11:10:51 AM
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Been to 7 National show this year and the crowds have all been really good. The Saturday show at Eagle was very good and I'm willing to bet outdrew the Knoxville show.
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June 13, 2012 at
11:51:04 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Hulbert on June 12 2012 at 07:20:57 PM
The Lucas Oil American Sprint Car Series presented by MAVTV will be introducing group qualifying at the Devil's Bowl this weekend. Cars will qualify in groups of 4 with line-ups based on their fastest time with a 24 car inversion. According to Emmett Hahn, this will be exclusive to the Devil's Bowl. All other races will use our normal draw format.
Please read down....this has been changed.
After several phone calls and e-mails from drivers and car owners on
both the Lucas Oil ASCS National Tour and our regions, the decision has
been made to keep the normal pill draw to passing points system in place
for this weekends events at the Devil's Bowl Speedway. This will be
used without change at all Lucas Oil ASCS National Tour events for the
remainder of the season. Any changes made will be done during the off
season with the input of our drivers and car owners.
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I am not sure that the passing points formula is going to change. It does not say anywhere about transfer spots or passing points. It just states that there will be a 24 car inversion for the heats.
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June 13, 2012 at
12:00:26 PM
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I feel like the ASCS always needed qualifying. It really evens out the entire field in the heat races and puts the best cars together for the feature making it more competitive. What I do not agree with is that this is a one race thing and it's also in the middle of the season. That doesn't make too much sense to me. Not sure what they were thinking on that. But I will be there to witness it. I am excited to see how it turns out!
made alive.
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June 13, 2012 at
12:02:34 PM
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After several phone calls and e-mails from drivers and car owners on both the Lucas Oil ASCS National Tour and our regions, the decision has been made to keep the normal pill draw to passing points system in place for this weekends events at the Devil's Bowl Speedway. This will be used without change at all Lucas Oil ASCS National Tour events for the remainder of the season. Any changes made will be done during the off season with the input of our drivers and car owners.
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June 13, 2012 at
12:10:49 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Hulbert on June 13 2012 at 12:02:34 PM
After several phone calls and e-mails from drivers and car owners on both the Lucas Oil ASCS National Tour and our regions, the decision has been made to keep the normal pill draw to passing points system in place for this weekends events at the Devil's Bowl Speedway. This will be used without change at all Lucas Oil ASCS National Tour events for the remainder of the season. Any changes made will be done during the off season with the input of our drivers and car owners.
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As usual the implication here is ....piss on the fans.... I'll stay home this weekend rather than make the five hour drive each way and spend two nights in mesquite. Just not worth it like it used to be with the lower car counts. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks this way either.
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June 13, 2012 at
04:57:01 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: JonR on June 13 2012 at 09:10:28 AM
We can argue pill draw versus qualifying till the cows come home both have positives and negatives However, changing the rules in the middle of the season for one race track only does not make any sense.
It seems that ASCS are making a lot more mid stream changes than ever before.
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SEEMS AS ASCS HAS RESPONDED TO FEEDBACK....AND I AM SURE CHANGING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON WAS A MAJOR TOPIC.....SO AS I LOOKED AT THE ASCS WEB PAGE JUST NOW......AND NOTICED BYRANS POST.....BACK TO ORIGINAL RULES AS POSTED WITH PILL DRAW........LOOKING FOR A GOOD RACE WEEKEND
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June 13, 2012 at
06:42:46 PM
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doesn't matter what the format is if there's no passing in the heat races. unless you think no passing in the heat races is OK and then it still doesn't matter what the format is. 
The greatest knowledge is to know that you know nothing
at all.
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June 14, 2012 at
01:38:56 PM
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It doesn't matter what format to me, I'd pay the $20 to look at them sitting in the pits...
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June 14, 2012 at
03:14:43 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Budman88 on June 14 2012 at 01:38:56 PM
It doesn't matter what format to me, I'd pay the $20 to look at them sitting in the pits...
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I agree Budman88 that its cool just to go to a sprint car show. Twenty bucks for grandstand admission is a pretty good deal. The problem arises when you have to decide if its worth spending a couple of hundred for gas and a couple of hundred for lodging and from 20-35 per person per night for either pit passes or grandtand admission. Thats what I am seeing this year is that the guys that traveled to these shows in the past few years are staying home more. Unfortunately, Im one of those guys. Hope the Devils Bowl show this weekend is a good one and the fans are greeted with good weather.
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June 15, 2012 at
06:57:59 AM
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Whether it be a pill draw or time trials - generally the track is "so hooked up" that there is little passing in the heats - this is whether it is ASCS or WoO. I personally like the pill draw so the fast guys don't always start near the front. I know - they (WoO) invert - but not enough. Not like the good ole days. ASCS rules have always made for better racing, in my opinion, than the "almighty WoO". A couple of weeks ago the regional ASCS show @ the Bowl was fantastic. I'm looking forward to this weekend. I'm sorry that some of you will miss it. Oh yes - the weather should be okay. Highs in the mid 90's and lows in the mid 70's. Rain is supposed to be out of the forecast. See you there. Oh - I'm one of the fortunate ones who gets in on the Seniors rate. I'm really grateful to Lanny to finally institute that here, as he had at Lawton & Okla. City Fairgrounds for so many years. Thank you Lanny.
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June 15, 2012 at
08:46:30 AM
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Passing points takes less time, creates more passing, and gives lower budget cars more of a chance than qualifying does. Isn't that a good thing from a fans perspective? How many people go to see one car on the track at a time for 30 minutes or more? How many don't like to see faster cars starting towards the back and driving their way towards the front? How many don't like to see a local car or two win a heat, start towards the front of the A, and actually have a chance for a top 5 finish? How often does that happen at a WoO race not in PA or CA? Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Steve Kinser fan and I enjoy watching those guys. They're absolutely amazing at what they can do with a car. But I also like seeing low budget local guys racing near the front of the A too. That never happens at a WoO race. It happens frequently at an ASCS race. ASCS was originally created to give all competitors a reasonable chance to compete. With today's high dollar 360 motors and big budgets, pill draw is about the only thing remaining that helps level the playing field. You actually have to race not just make a fast lap by yourself and lock in a spot. I understand WoO using qualifying. I hope ASCS never does.
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June 15, 2012 at
09:36:41 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: MoOpenwheel on June 15 2012 at 08:46:30 AM
Passing points takes less time, creates more passing, and gives lower budget cars more of a chance than qualifying does. Isn't that a good thing from a fans perspective? How many people go to see one car on the track at a time for 30 minutes or more? How many don't like to see faster cars starting towards the back and driving their way towards the front? How many don't like to see a local car or two win a heat, start towards the front of the A, and actually have a chance for a top 5 finish? How often does that happen at a WoO race not in PA or CA? Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Steve Kinser fan and I enjoy watching those guys. They're absolutely amazing at what they can do with a car. But I also like seeing low budget local guys racing near the front of the A too. That never happens at a WoO race. It happens frequently at an ASCS race. ASCS was originally created to give all competitors a reasonable chance to compete. With today's high dollar 360 motors and big budgets, pill draw is about the only thing remaining that helps level the playing field. You actually have to race not just make a fast lap by yourself and lock in a spot. I understand WoO using qualifying. I hope ASCS never does.
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Your point is well taken. However,very few locals are finishing in the top five in the features. The National tour drivers are filling most of the spots in the top 10 in the features. The locals can win a heat race by starting on the front with a locked down heavy track on a regular basis. There are some local/regional guys that can handle starting on the front with all of the heavy hitters behind them. Then there are others that just fall apart on the start and cause all sorts of mayhem behind them. Thats exactly what happened a couple of years ago at Lucas Oil Speedway. Ask Gary Wright what he thinks about that. He had hauled all the way from Texas and had to load up after he was wrecked out of his heat race by a local that couldnt handle starting at the front of the heat. You can easily understand why he would be upset as he has been the best supporter of ASCS racing for years now and he spends a lot of coin to run up and down the highway.
The bottom line is that the ASCS will have to make these races more attractive to the casual fan so that they can grow the series. You have to think that some of the car owners that have dropped out of the series havent just done so because of the lower purse. The draw system may help the lower budget teams and locals, but it punishes the National tour regulars that do it every weekend. They can have the fastest car in the pits but with bad draws and bad track conditions they have no chance to win. They suffer and the fans do too when they drop out of the series. Its not the same now without Crawley, Chappell, Stewart, Swindell and others. Time for some changes and soon....
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