Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

1972 Nationals Tommy Marshal from Dallas Tx was the one that went over guard rail off of two and crahsed through quantsit hut. The car is the #8 car that has been on display at Hall of Fame.

Curt Grogan

Way back in the day there were grain bins that sat outside of turn 2 where the Hall of Fame is now. One of the Welds (can't remember if it was Greg or Kenny) went over the wall in turn 2 and stuck the front of the car into the side of the grain bin. The rear of the car was up off the ground and corn poured out of the grain bin.

I was there the night Jay Opperman went over the fence in turn 3. It was Jay's first night at Knoxville and the rumor at the time was that Jan had told him it was possible to run a full lap at Knoxville without ever lifting. I have pictures of the car after the crash, not realizing that Jay had been fatally injured. The cage (such as they were at the time) came apart in the crash.

Mike Waddell in the 360 Nationals hit an I beam backwards. . I was sitting in row 25 or so, just behind that I beam. . . I will never forget how that car went flying into that and just slammed to do an instant stop. I thought for sure the outcome was not good. I do believe it ended his driving career but I think he might be part owner of a team now?

Austin Johnson, the driver that went over the wall on Saturday night, has written a blog about Saturday night's crash and Knoxville Raceway safety. Please check it out at http://blog.austinjohnsonracing.com/

We'd love to hear your comments!

Like him on facebook at: www.facebook.com/austinjohnsonracing81

Find him on Twitter: @ajracing81

Find his website at: www.austinjohnsonracing.com

what pit area, we pit in infield

Very well stated BigGMan.. Please read Austin's blog, he has some great insight into the situation.

so who was the punter?

the 2 x 4's need to go and the fence needs to be about another 10' taller.

I sure would like to see some video of the hit and crash! See what happened for sure.

Want to know what happened to the 81? Ask the 2 of Dobesh...he may know.

After reading Austin's Blog I have to say I agree with MOST of what he wrote.

The only thing I don't agree with is the "unavoidable contact". In the other forms of racing he wrote about, they all have 1 thing in common: Mirrors. Sprint cars do not have mirrors (or spotters - they tried 2 way radios in the late 80's/ Early 90's, it was a collossal failure becuase it allowed drivers to "block".

While I agree accidents should be reviewed (for malicious intent to wreck someone or intentionally wreck someone like when Danica INTENTIONALLY wrecked Hornish after the checker in the Nationwide race), I don't agree with penalties for unavoidable contact in any form of dirt racing as there are other things to consider. Such as, the track changes (and drivers change their line). Austin himself typed that he had run the top the entire race and decided to run the bottom going into that corner and then went for a ride.

What if the scenario had been the leaders trying to lap him, the leaders are generally watching the track so far ahead that they had seen him run the top consistently while they caught him and then went to pass him and he dropped down right where they were and had caused the wreck? Everyone in the stands (and on the message boards) would have been bit$hing that he changed lines and caused the wreck.

I did not see the accident, but I have seen many that are similar to it. A driver changes lines thinking no one is there and boom, they hit another car and there is a wreck (usually they both end up crashed though).

I do agree that more catch fencing needs to be added, however you could build the fence 40 feet tall and there is no guarantee that a car, parts, or pieces won't exit the raceway given the right kind of circumstances.

If the cars are going so fast (in Austin's words), maybe they should institute more rules to restrict the speeds ala NASCAR (take away downforce by making the wings smaller (or remove them alltogether), harden and narrow the tires up, reduce the engine size and make the track so sloppy or rough that no one would dare run wide open). Wait, that was the 60's and 70's... Maybe we should have no limit on the motors, wings, tires (oh, that was the 80's).

IMO, it was a bad accident where Austin was lucky that he was racing in the 2010's instead of the 60's, 70's, 80's or 90's, as he more than likely would not have survived an accident like that in those eras. The safety equipment (and fences, and safety personnel and training) have come so far since those days that the drivers (and the fans, officials, crews, etc.) don't realize that they ALSO have some responsibility in how they drive.

I hope Austin makes it back this weekend to race and we have a SAFE weekend for ALL of the competitors, fans, officials, staff, etc..

I think it's a hard call in Sprint Car racing. I can't from the cockpit point of view but from the stands the decisions on most race winning moves are a mixture of sense and gut instinct, I read a statistic that a motorcyclist has an average 1.6 sec decision to make in an emergency situation that either means life or death. I would imagine these sprint car drivers are at that level of decision making in every race. Obviously some are blatant & intentional and should be dealt with but to start calling drivers on making moves that a sprint car needs to make to win or advance in the short time given and at the speeds they drive is crazy.

An example I want to use is B.Brown & R.Martin at the 360 Nationals a few years back. Brown came hell bent into 3 and absolutely smoked Randy Martin into the wall ending his Nationals. From the stands it looked blatant as hell. Everyone boo'ed the hell out of Brownie! Do I think Brian meant to punt Martin into the wall and destroy both cars? Hell no, I'm a Brownie fan but not die hard, I do feel he is a hard and clean racer but just made a poor decision in that 1.6 window.

Like I said, this is a bleacher call and the cockpit could be completely different.

I read in "Lone Wolf" where Doug said something to the effect that he knew when he had mastered his sport because he could really forecast what he was going to do a half lap ahead of time and the race almost seemed in slow motion.

I think you and I agree...

It is a hard call, what looks blatant from the grandstand (or the official booth or on video replay), can sometimes be just a racing accident.

I don't know when Austin decided he'd run the bottom in 3 & 4, but I know if I was the guy behind him I know he's been running the top the last XX amount of laps. I dive in to go low since I'm close enough (or I've been running that line or even the middle of the track) and all of a sudden the car in front of me changes lanes completely at the VERY last second, so reaction time is nill for me to avoid him.

"Avoidable Contact" rules have no place in dirt track racing unless it's a wreck caused AFTER a yellow. "Avoidable Contact" is (1) difficult to police, (2) open to OPINION, no facts can be used to determine if it was avoidable or not because it only takes 16 seconds to make a lap @ speed on the track and the decision(s) made by the drivers only give someone about .5 seconds to re-act.

My BIGGEST complaint of the night is the #82 car in the 305's. He was at the flagstand (on the opening lap of the race) when the RED came out for the wreck in turn #2, yet he continued on PAST 2 wrecked cars (ALL other cars on the track were stopped before he was and he was the slowest car on the track all night).

He finished 3 laps down in his heat race (6 lap race total), and went a lap down before the leader completed 2 laps in the 305 feature, so he was running 1/2 the speed that Jason Johnson, Clint Garner and the leaders were.

I realize that he is out there trying to make laps and get better (for that, I applaud him). But, if you're doing less than pace truck speed, het can't get your car stopped without going almost 1/2 way around the track, maybe you shouldn't be out there with 20 other cars.

I truly appreciate those who have taken the time to read my blog, thank you for the kind words, and I am glad that it has sparked an interesting debate. Vande, I agree with you in the fact that we don't know if there was unavoidable contact in my case, this is why I have kept the other drivers name out of this. What I am saying, and it sounds like you agree, is that there should be reviews in place. If nothing else so that drivers know that it is being looked at. My wife pointed out last night that I had already started running the bottom for 2 laps prior (not changing my story, just was corrected by someone that was watching). I feel that the lack of mirrors should play into the overtaking driver's decision, and as paintboss points out we do not have much time to make them. He also pointed out malicious intent, I honestly do not think there was malicious intent in my wreck, and didn't want it to come across that I thought that. If it came across that way, I apologize. Also, I do NOT think the cars are too fast, if that were the case I shouldn't be in one. I wrote, "These cars are faster than ever, and the racing is as competitive back through the field as it has ever been. With that the safety needs to advance." As the cars have gotten faster the safety needs to KEEP advancing. I agree with your statement about being thankful to be racing in the 2010's as I stated how thankful I am to ButlerBuilt. I just don't want us to become complacent, and say that we are as safe as we can be. I am still a rookie at this, and love that quote by Wolfie in his book, and hope someday to have even a fraction of the understanding he did behind the wheel. But until then I know that I am fallible as we all are, and am trying to get up to speed in these amazing cars as safely as possible. Thanks again for reading and discussing; this is what I had hoped to do with the blog, so to me it is a success.

-Austin Johnson

Cheers!

I'll be quite honest, I was watching Lasoski and McCarl cut through the field and didn't see your wreck (just the aftermath).

As a fan, I LOVE watching sprint cars and feel that all of you that drive one (even a 305) are the BRAVEST sprint car drivers in the world.

I too believe that safety is constantly evolving and the fences do need to be raised (especially in turns 1 and 2). Had your wreck occurred in that corner, I think we could be debating about a disaster in the event that a Semi or passenger vehicle had been there at that moment in time).

I do fear about some of the immediate responses I hear when people talk about the catch fencing used at NASCAR tracks to stop sprint cars. Those fences are "shredders" as evidenced by the tragedy with Dan Wheldon @ Las Vegas last year. That type of fencing IS NOT the answer for open wheel cars that can get airborne.

I am fairly confident that Toby Kruse (as well as other officials) will discuss raising the fences following the season.

I'm sorry if I read too much into your blog about the speeds of the cars, that wasn't my intention. My intention was to illustrate the changes over the years. In the 60's and 70's, many cars didn't even have rollcages, the tires were narrow and the tracks were rough (and subsequently speeds were obviously a lot slower). In the 80's, the high dollar teams had Big Blocks and the speeds between the "fast guys" and everyone else were huge disparity (but safety was basically an afterthought).

Now we are in the 2010's and the differnce in safety features is HUGE when you look at it over the course of the eras. I'm not sure that everyone looks at safety over the course of XX # of years like I do. Unfortunately, it's a big guessing game on safety. You can prepare for everything you can imagine, then boom, one night the unimaginable happens.

It was nights like last Saturday that I remember why I buy 50/50 tickets from the KRCO every week. Some (not all) competitors wouldn't have spent the $$ on full containment seats, the best helmet on the market, a new fire suit, fireproof underwear, etc. without the KRCO either purchasing it or giving them certificates toward the purchase of it during the annual awards banquet.

I have seen TONS of safety changes @ Knoxville in my lifetime (as I'm sure you have as well) including when the old "board" fence was repaced with the ARMCO railing. When after (I think maybe it was David Hesmer, but not sure) a car tumbled down the backstretch and tore down the caution lights that all of the Green/Yellow/Red lighting was moved to the infield, outside the fence or imbedded into the fence so it was still visible to the competitors, but no longer a safety issue for them. When after a fire in the 1980's, the Safety Crew got fire suits to wear and safety became more and more of a priority (for both the rescue personnel and the drivers/teams). When the KRCO starting purchasing ADDITIONAL insurance for the drivers so in the event they got hurn in an accident it wouldn't cripple their family financially.

As they always tell us at my employer, Safety is not a destination, it's a journey that never ends.

My wife told me if I went to one more Sprint Car race 
she would leave me.................I'm sure gonna miss 
that ol' gal. 

I agree with 90% of Austins post and blog, I too have gotten a "bunt" as we call it and feels like a elephant stepped on your guts and sat on your head , wobbeling around for a week in the shop cutting whats left of your chassis apart to get the motor out is no fun, expessially when your racing on your dime , I feel your frustration Austin I really do, the information id like to throw out there to observe and chew on is this , its something I particulary care try to forget but almost became obsessed to find out what really happened , I watched Steve King early in the night and was drawn to his car because of its sound? is it geared low?? or headers? or what? as a driver i was disgusted and actually nervous to step in a car again, after Steves fatality I didnt Know Steve personally , but I felt like I did? oddly? raising the catch fence would also increase your impact if sturdy enuff to keep you in the park, this isnt a easy topic, which is best to approach this matter from? I know , theres too many variables, such as if it were nationals, Austins incident would possibly be more catastrophic to bystanders? , all of us would have a lump in our throats if something were to happen to anyone , nobody wants to see anybody hurt or worse fatally injured , Austin would be the first to tell you, Hell no! i didnt slow down before impact , but if the catch fence was taller more sturdy would the impact be worse? just a 50/50 deal , i dont have any answers but just throwing it out there for debate , any driver feels appauled when they are crashed out, thats understandable, but, most of us that have taken a tumble and recieved a couple cat scans, a couple sets of X rays, a black eye, sore from head to toe , and spilling blood in your urin, definetly try not make that mistake on anyone !