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Topic: Three Winners Excite Knoxville Fans on 410 Twin Features Night!
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July 11, 2011 at
08:50:41 AM
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Im not bitching about what Knoxville has. If you noticed I mentioned the great track, cars and drivers. I'm not talking about one single night, I'm talking about the big picture. When the fairboard members tell you that they lose money every night and break even on outlaw shows, something has got to give. I don't know many companies that do the same thing year after year after year and lose money and stay in business. On the surface Knoxville is hands down the greatest track in the world, but you don't have to look under to many layers to start to see the disease. I;m not saying I have the answers cuz I don't know that I do. What I am saying is that with what Knoxville has is not what they could have. With a fairboard that would keep their greedy hands off and let the promoter really be creative, it could be so much damn fun you couldn't keep people away. I'm talking fans and drivers, and dare I say car owners. If you remember what those are. I pray they get it solved cuz I am addicted to the place.
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July 11, 2011 at
08:55:39 AM
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This message was edited on
July 11, 2011 at
08:56:29 AM by kooks
Reply to:
Posted By: Oppermanfan on July 11 2011 at 08:50:41 AM
Im not bitching about what Knoxville has. If you noticed I mentioned the great track, cars and drivers. I'm not talking about one single night, I'm talking about the big picture. When the fairboard members tell you that they lose money every night and break even on outlaw shows, something has got to give. I don't know many companies that do the same thing year after year after year and lose money and stay in business. On the surface Knoxville is hands down the greatest track in the world, but you don't have to look under to many layers to start to see the disease. I;m not saying I have the answers cuz I don't know that I do. What I am saying is that with what Knoxville has is not what they could have. With a fairboard that would keep their greedy hands off and let the promoter really be creative, it could be so much damn fun you couldn't keep people away. I'm talking fans and drivers, and dare I say car owners. If you remember what those are. I pray they get it solved cuz I am addicted to the place.
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FWIW they've been saying they lose money on the weekly shows for a couple decades already.
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July 11, 2011 at
10:17:04 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: jackhole22 on July 11 2011 at 02:48:46 AM
If this is the debate. 410's are hard to come by right now. Knoxville and Huset's...can't really think of a regular show each week close in the same area. Times are tough, sponsors are tough, get over it. Watch a race and drink a beer, it's better than sitting in a dessert at 120 degrees. IF I had an ex wife, I'd imagine alot of people on this board would sound just like the B***ch!
Side note: I was just going over the 360 list of Eagle and I saw a bunch of names I don't know. Eagle is what 3 1/2 hours from Knoxville? Didn't Eagle use to race Friday nights? Would be nice to combine those two groups of 360 drivers. What would be awesome is a 3 night point battle. Huset, Knoxville and Eagle. Get all those driver's in and have 1 night at each track for a mini 360 sprint week
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Eagle has run 360's on Saturdays for as long as I can remember. They haven't had regular Friday shows since the 90's and those were late models. Sprints have always been a Saturday night at Eagle.
Is this heaven?
No, it's Iowa....Knoxville, Iowa.
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July 11, 2011 at
11:14:04 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: The Vision on July 11 2011 at 10:17:04 AM
Eagle has run 360's on Saturdays for as long as I can remember. They haven't had regular Friday shows since the 90's and those were late models. Sprints have always been a Saturday night at Eagle.
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ok thanks, was just a question. I couldn't remember if they had or not.
Opper, I wasn't really talking about you as much as others. I totally get what you are saying. Plus, I know the fair board has been saying that crap for decades. I am sure on paper the cash sales look like they are losing money, if you get what I am saying.
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A healthy diet of dirt in my nachos and beer.
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July 11, 2011 at
11:26:23 AM
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Yeah jackhole I get what your saying. They claim to lose money every year but then they add more bleachers or suites. Where the money actually goes is for another debate. The problem with the 3 track series is the guys that run Husets or Eagle simply dont have the horsepower to run Knoxville. Not that those tracks or cars are bad because they are not. Love them both but Knoxville is a different animal. You can win at Eagle w/o big ponies if your car is handling good, but at Knoxville you gotta have that speed even if your car is perfect. It would be awesome if you could get the guys to do it though. I bet you could find a few midwest sponsors that would love to be involved in those 3 markets every week.
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July 11, 2011 at
11:33:04 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Oppermanfan on July 11 2011 at 11:26:23 AM
Yeah jackhole I get what your saying. They claim to lose money every year but then they add more bleachers or suites. Where the money actually goes is for another debate. The problem with the 3 track series is the guys that run Husets or Eagle simply dont have the horsepower to run Knoxville. Not that those tracks or cars are bad because they are not. Love them both but Knoxville is a different animal. You can win at Eagle w/o big ponies if your car is handling good, but at Knoxville you gotta have that speed even if your car is perfect. It would be awesome if you could get the guys to do it though. I bet you could find a few midwest sponsors that would love to be involved in those 3 markets every week.
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yeah, plus Huset's has IMCA rules.
and when you have an Iowa county fairgrounds donating a couple hundred thousand to the State Fair Grounds, something is amiss.
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A healthy diet of dirt in my nachos and beer.
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July 11, 2011 at
02:52:58 PM
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This is a new one to me jackhole 22. What do they donate to the State Fair for?
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July 11, 2011 at
03:07:45 PM
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This message was edited on
July 11, 2011 at
03:10:06 PM by jackhole22
If I remember right it was when the State Fair referbed the grand stand. Knoxville is a non profit. They are running out of ideas to make sure they don't show too much profit each year.
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A healthy diet of dirt in my nachos and beer.
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July 11, 2011 at
03:32:24 PM
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All the fairboard members must of already had their new trucks.
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July 11, 2011 at
03:40:59 PM
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This message was edited on
July 11, 2011 at
03:51:04 PM by jackhole22
Reply to:
Posted By: Oppermanfan on July 11 2011 at 03:32:24 PM
All the fairboard members must of already had their new trucks.
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I just wish they would use some of that money for good county fair. I am not sure if the facts are right or not but I read an article in the Des Moines register, the same year they helped the State Fairgrounds. It said Marion County Fair Asso. brings in enough cash to make it the 2nd most profitable fairgrounds in the USA. Only behind the Texas State Fair Grounds and California State Fair in 3rd. A decent fair with rides would be great. People of Knoxville and Pella have said that for decades. we have the worst fair in the State. That is only 12 of the fair board members fault. I believe they are split into two groups. 12 run the races and 12 run the fair and fairgrounds.
EDIT* Also, 2044 should be an interesting year or the end to the Nationals. The grounds are on a 99 year lease. It went into contract in July 1945. 2044 the county supervisors could take the track over.
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A healthy diet of dirt in my nachos and beer.
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July 11, 2011 at
04:02:32 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: jackhole22 on July 11 2011 at 03:40:59 PM
I just wish they would use some of that money for good county fair. I am not sure if the facts are right or not but I read an article in the Des Moines register, the same year they helped the State Fairgrounds. It said Marion County Fair Asso. brings in enough cash to make it the 2nd most profitable fairgrounds in the USA. Only behind the Texas State Fair Grounds and California State Fair in 3rd. A decent fair with rides would be great. People of Knoxville and Pella have said that for decades. we have the worst fair in the State. That is only 12 of the fair board members fault. I believe they are split into two groups. 12 run the races and 12 run the fair and fairgrounds.
EDIT* Also, 2044 should be an interesting year or the end to the Nationals. The grounds are on a 99 year lease. It went into contract in July 1945. 2044 the county supervisors could take the track over.
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Since the Fairgrounds haven't EVER made a penny for the rest of the county in the month of August, I'm sure this will be a HOT debate in 2044!
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July 11, 2011 at
04:12:42 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: jackhole22 on July 11 2011 at 03:07:45 PM
If I remember right it was when the State Fair referbed the grand stand. Knoxville is a non profit. They are running out of ideas to make sure they don't show too much profit each year.
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Sorry to burst everyone's bubble here, but the Knoxville Raceway is a FOR-PROFIT business. They pay taxes just like every other business.
Do they donate $$ to various charities, yep. Having said that, I have never heard of this supposed State Fair donation as I am a member of the Blue Ribbon Foundation (Re: Donor) for the State Fair. They publish a list each and every year of donations received, I have yet to see the Marion County Fair Association or the Knoxville Raceway on that list (or any other Fair Association in the state for that matter).
If the Raceway were granted non-profit status, people would be screaming to high heaven about them raking in all this $$$ from ticket sales of the Nationals.
No offense Jeff, but you need to do some real research before you spout off on items. All non-profits are reviewed yearly by the state of Iowa and many lose that status every year due to law changes as well as the proper paperwork not being filled out.
The Raceway is considered a BUSINESS by the State and Federal governments because they charge $ to spectators and then pay it out to "contract labor" (IE: the drivers and teams). This has been the case for close to 35 years now (almost all of my life).
The FAIR is non-profit and I am 100% positive that it doensn't make a dime (they don't charge admission to the Fair), as all they have are expenditures.
With the exception of the Marion County Fair and the Clay County Fair (Spencer), all other County Fairs in Iowa receive $$ from the state to subsidize the county fairs to pay out stipends to the 4-H and FFA members as well as the Open Class competitions. The Marion County Fair Association decided that they would use profits from the Raceway to pay out those stipends many, MANY years ago rather than burdening the taxpayers of the state with another county fair.
I too think that the Fair itself leaves a lot to be desired, however I have seen improvements over the last 3-4 years and that gives me hope that many of the newer Fairboard members value the importance of having a good county fair.
For the record, I AM NOT a FAIRBOARD MEMBER OR AN EMPLOYEE OF THE RACEWAY. Just a citizen of Knoxville and racefan.
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July 11, 2011 at
04:13:30 PM
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I agree the car count at Knoxville (360 and 410) has been down in recent years. I can remember when I first started covering races at Knoxville a regular show would have about 35-40 410s and 30-35 360s. Many of the drivers in recent years have quit racing due to the economy or other factors. Here are just some of the drivers that have raced in Knoxville that either no longer race or don't race on a regular basis:
Colin Northway (retired I believe)
Calvin Landis (races in AZ)
Skip Jackson (Prostate Cancer)
Jerrol Slinkard, Tony Norem, Ricky Logan, Randy Anderson, Jeff Mitrision, Chris Walraven, Travis Cram, Justin Henderson, John Van Den Berg, Brent Anthill, Jaymie Moyle, I could name at least 15 more. My point is be happy with 25-30 each week. Don't mean to ramble, but I get frustrated with people bellyaching about Knoxville.
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July 11, 2011 at
04:16:13 PM
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This message was edited on
July 11, 2011 at
04:24:33 PM by jackhole22
http://www.sos.state.ia.us/search/corp/%28S%28nx5clh55k35mlybxc3b3uxie%29%29/corp_summary.aspx
What does that say under Chapter? Domestic Non profit
The name Knoxville Raceway doesn't exist in the Iowa Records for a Business
* I did do my research before I spouted about an item. ^^^
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A healthy diet of dirt in my nachos and beer.
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July 11, 2011 at
04:28:44 PM
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Frankly my Dears! I don't give a damn. I just know I love Knoxville Raceway.
I also hate it that Cappy is retiring.
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July 11, 2011 at
04:30:59 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Paintboss on July 11 2011 at 04:28:44 PM
Frankly my Dears! I don't give a damn. I just know I love Knoxville Raceway.
I also hate it that Cappy is retiring.
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Yeah, how did we get on this anyway  back to subject. Just be happy we live someplace where we get to see racing. Once the economy bounces back we can listen to people moan about how the show took too long cause there were 60 cars to time in.
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A healthy diet of dirt in my nachos and beer.
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July 11, 2011 at
04:31:56 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: pitguy14 on July 11 2011 at 04:13:30 PM
I agree the car count at Knoxville (360 and 410) has been down in recent years. I can remember when I first started covering races at Knoxville a regular show would have about 35-40 410s and 30-35 360s. Many of the drivers in recent years have quit racing due to the economy or other factors. Here are just some of the drivers that have raced in Knoxville that either no longer race or don't race on a regular basis:
Colin Northway (retired I believe)
Calvin Landis (races in AZ)
Skip Jackson (Prostate Cancer)
Jerrol Slinkard, Tony Norem, Ricky Logan, Randy Anderson, Jeff Mitrision, Chris Walraven, Travis Cram, Justin Henderson, John Van Den Berg, Brent Anthill, Jaymie Moyle, I could name at least 15 more. My point is be happy with 25-30 each week. Don't mean to ramble, but I get frustrated with people bellyaching about Knoxville.
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agreed pitguy14
Skip (planned on running in 2011, hoping for a return in 2012)
Ricky Logan (still sidelined due to injury in NewZealand - planned on June return to Knoxville in 2011 - hope to see him back yet this year)
Randy Anderson (purchased parts and a trailer in the off-season with plan to run K'ville in 2011, haven't heard what happened)
Calvin Landis (lost his motor sponsor, do see he's on the 360 Nationals Pre-Entry List)
Chris Walraven (family is now his priority (his boys are in a LOT of activities in town))
Travis Cram (races part time in the 305 class for Bruce Clark)
Justin Henderson (racing in PA)
Jaymie Moyle (retired from racing, building race engines in K'ville)
Tony Norem (been to K'ville once this year in a 360)
Jeff Mitrison (daughter is racing down @ English Creek)
Pete Crall (???)
John VandenBerg (was trying LateModels out last I knew)
Brent Antill (retired??)
Randy Smith (retired)
Chadd Smith (retired??)
Kerry Madsen (World of Outlaws / traveling)
Colin Northway (retired?)
Austin Johnson (Marty Johnson 81 car - hit and miss @ Kville in 2011)
Johnny Anderson (retired - but still seen in the pits)
Brian Brown (traveling more this year to appease sponsors)
Max Dumesney (regular in late 80's/early 90's) - doesn't come over from Australia too often anymore
I see that most have just cut back on their racing schedule (fuel for the haulers isn't $0.89 / gallon like it was in the 90's, yet purses aren't that much greater than they were back then ($2500 to win in 2000 compared to $3500 to win now and Outlaw shows still have the same EXACT purse they did back then. UNLESS YOU ARE A MULTI-MILLIONAIRE, YOU JUST DON'T HAVE THE EXPENDABLE INCOME ANYMORE (or the time).
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July 11, 2011 at
04:35:13 PM
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Northway got married and just decided to help out the family Well and Pump business. I tried to get him on the All Star Trail in 2007 and had a major sponsor lined up and a crew but it was a no go.
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A healthy diet of dirt in my nachos and beer.
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July 11, 2011 at
04:38:03 PM
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Reply to:
The Marion County Fair Association (MCFA) is a non-profit (that applies to the Fair and the Fairgrounds), the RACEWAY is a business as the MCFA LEASES the track and grounds to the KNOXVILLE RACEWAY, LLC which is a business (more than likely incorporated in Delaware as almost 99% of businesses in the USA are).
You need to do a little more research, not everything can be found on-line....
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July 11, 2011 at
04:43:52 PM
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This message was edited on
July 12, 2011 at
01:16:05 AM by jackhole22
Not registered in Delaware either as a corp. and yes you can, it is public records. Every state is required to have a list of EVERY corp and at hand to the public......<-----originally went to school to be a private investigator.
*all i am saying is that they are the same corp. MCFA is the same as the RACEWAY. that is why 12 members of the board over see the grounds and fair and 12 over see the track. It is one of the same. I have no reason to argue with you about it. I am just stating the facts as they ARE researched and the knowledge handed down to me from my father about the track.
and if the Raceway is different? Why on the MCFA list of officers is Cappy listed as the Director? He is the director of the Track not MCFA
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A healthy diet of dirt in my nachos and beer.
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