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Topic: 410 's
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May 10, 2011 at
08:52:52 PM
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Reply to:
Sprintcarfan 1985,
Ill start with a dissclaimer, Im not saying you are wrong but I would like to point out a few things.
You said, "i belive 410 raeing died when we lost scra " Keep in mind that SCRA and Perris parted ways right about the same time that the economy started its down fall.
You also said, "ventura is a great track but i feel naylor helped with screwing the 410 we were there for him when scra started" SCRA was there for him? You mean he was there for SCRA? Ventura was the ONLY track that would have anything to do with SCRA for their first race. It is my opinion that without Naylor and Ventura raceway Sprincar racing would have died in so cal when CRA folded.
I feel there are MANY reasons that 410s are dying the biggest being over whelming cost. Tires, Engines, Heads etc etc. A top notch 410 team buys a new rearend, runs it 12 to 15 races and has to get rid of it because the HP and good tire are starting to wear it out, a 360 guy can but that rearend and run it 3 more seasons. Less HP less tire, less wear and tear on the ENTIRE driveline.
A 410 guy buys the BEST cylinder heads available today, $6,000 and they will be out dated by the end of the year. two or three rearends a year, and for some reason everyone thinks they need a toter home and stacker trailer.
Racing is like everything else, as soon as a more econmical option comes along most people are going to take it.
Also keep in mind that it is tougher then ever to get people to the tracks now. here in So Cal each and everyone of us have SSOOOO many options as to what to do on Saturday night. Dodgers, Angeles Lakers, Kings, Ducks Pay Per View Boxing or MMA, NASCAR on Saturday night etc etc etc. Pack up the kids (two of them) bring the wife, spend an hour or two or even three getting to the track, Gas, Parking, tickets, food, sodas, Dad gets a beer, Jr. wants a T-Shirt, $200 EASY, twice a month? Holly crap thats a truck payment. Or we could work Saturday morning, make a couple hundred bucks, stay home watch Kyle Busch on the 52 inch plasma w surround sound, BBQ w my wife and not spend all that money and just check the results on the internet before I go to bed.
I think its just a sign of the times.
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May 10, 2011 at
09:39:10 PM
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im sorry your correct naylor was there when cra and ascot closed i stand corrected but wasnt naylor involved in wanting usac instead of scra im not trying to start trouble just very dissapointed that the 3 tracks we have cant save 410 and perris dont do anything to save the big guys
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May 10, 2011 at
10:53:02 PM
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How much do you like qualifying?
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May 10, 2011 at
10:57:14 PM
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This message was edited on
May 10, 2011 at
10:58:54 PM by harryfan
Reply to:
Posted By: Sprintcarfan1985 on May 10 2011 at 09:39:10 PM
im sorry your correct naylor was there when cra and ascot closed i stand corrected but wasnt naylor involved in wanting usac instead of scra im not trying to start trouble just very dissapointed that the 3 tracks we have cant save 410 and perris dont do anything to save the big guys
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It's a matter of economics. It is a very expensive proposition to put on any sort of an auto race. Sprint cars and 410 sprint cars in particular.
Looking at the NASCAR model, the teams are primarly supported by their sponsors. The teams have made it an art on how they co-partner with sponsors. For the most part, the teams without sponsorships are the dreaded go or go home teams. Most of the sprint car teams we watch are the equivalent of the go or go home teams. I would really like to see some sort of seminar set up to teach our heroes about how obtain quality sponsorship. Too many of our teams are racing out of their own back pockets.
If Perris were located about thirty miles west, I think that it would be easier to bring new fans and get sponsorship. Well we can wish into one hand and poop into the other, we all know which hand is going to fill up first.
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May 10, 2011 at
11:02:37 PM
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I think you guys are missing the bigger problem, fans in the stands. Everyone seems to forget the waning days of the original CRA under Frank Lewis. We had a number of races with 17-18 cars on dirt and fewer on pavement. 410's survived that because the fans kept coming. The key to the future of 410's isn't car count but fans in the stands.
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May 10, 2011 at
11:10:08 PM
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The sad fact is its hard to get a fan to pop for a $15-20 T-shirt let alone support a sponsors business. Most guys that put up sponsorship dollars into these teams, me included, do it for the love of the sport and not because we expect a return on our investment.
Joe
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May 10, 2011 at
11:19:30 PM
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The best thing us fans can do for the sport we love is show up find the car owner and give him the $5, 10, 20 or 100 that you can afford to spare.
Cal Smith can use help rebuilding an engine, Heidi Tressler needs a chassis and there are scores of others that just need help with fuel, tires etc.
The CAR OWNERS need the help folks! Dedicate what you can to help the guys out and pick a guy that's runs in the pack or is a lowbuck team!
I've given as little as $20 and they were all appreciative!
Joe
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May 10, 2011 at
11:24:23 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: RichCee on May 10 2011 at 11:02:37 PM
I think you guys are missing the bigger problem, fans in the stands. Everyone seems to forget the waning days of the original CRA under Frank Lewis. We had a number of races with 17-18 cars on dirt and fewer on pavement. 410's survived that because the fans kept coming. The key to the future of 410's isn't car count but fans in the stands.
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You are right on the money with that Rich! Im 46 and I feel like the Whippersnapper in my section of the stands. This sport needs some kids in the stands even if they are let in for free with a paid adult ticket to get them exposed!
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May 10, 2011 at
11:42:38 PM
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SoCalCowboy you hit it right on with the KIDS!!!!!
THEY ARE THE FUTURE OF RACING KEEP THEM COMMING OUT
"ARE YOU PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN
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May 11, 2011 at
12:31:57 AM
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You guys are very close on the kid and so many kinds of entertainment.....When I grew up and was in High School it was the style to fix up your Mustang 'Cuda or whatever and to throw whatever performance parts at it to make it fast....Motorsports was the thing......And I brought my son up and exposed him to the Motorsports world...So he knew what racing was out there ...Now the fire to race burns in him .....But my wife's kids..(By her first marriage) were brought up different and never even had heard about what a Sprint car was even though we have a track less than an hour away...(Santa Maria)..But....If you ask them what the latest cell phone is.....or the best and fastest computer was....or what the neatest game to play on their Playstation was...They could tell you in a Heartbeat.. and they have 0 interest in the racing...Hell, I took them to several races and all they did was text on their cell phones and such....The sad truth is most kids now days Parents both work a job.... electronics has been their babysitter...The only way I have slowly been able to sway them is to actually let thm help me put this Sprint car together...And Hopefully one day I can get it on the track to show them the other side of racing.....Not just from the stands...I'm afraid though that a lot of other kids Still don't know what a Sprint Car is.....that's why I think the promoters should not only promote on Radio and TV...But go to the High School auto Shop classes or even the whole school...Promote a Motorsports Day!..Get the kids involved somehow!.....I would be willing to donate my time for this and I'm sure other racers would do the same..After all it would be nothing but a win-win situation for racers and promoters alike...
Jeff Ferrin
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May 11, 2011 at
02:56:49 AM
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Im behind every single one of you that has commented on this post. Im a big sprint car fan from hanford ca, it doesnt matter, wing, non,360,410,micro 600. im always at plaza park on friday nights just because its close and i cant head to watsonville unless i take the days off for work, but saturday nights you can count on me being at tulare,hanford,or ventura and perris if nothing closer! Like i said you are all right, we need fans,and support the drivers! I think sprint cars being on tv would help alot also. its just too bad its only WoO or chili bowl thats ever on,or ASCS. Like all of you im a big fan and just love the sport period! nothing like watching these gassers gas it up and slide it in wide open! Everyone have a great weekend of racing!
BTW what track is everyone headed to this weekend?
me-Tulare
Pushin the cushin!
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May 11, 2011 at
10:39:55 AM
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So your saying just forget about the kids and getting more people in the stands and just race?....???
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May 11, 2011 at
01:12:28 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: K_Kierce on May 10 2011 at 08:52:52 PM
Sprintcarfan 1985,
Ill start with a dissclaimer, Im not saying you are wrong but I would like to point out a few things.
You said, "i belive 410 raeing died when we lost scra " Keep in mind that SCRA and Perris parted ways right about the same time that the economy started its down fall.
You also said, "ventura is a great track but i feel naylor helped with screwing the 410 we were there for him when scra started" SCRA was there for him? You mean he was there for SCRA? Ventura was the ONLY track that would have anything to do with SCRA for their first race. It is my opinion that without Naylor and Ventura raceway Sprincar racing would have died in so cal when CRA folded.
I feel there are MANY reasons that 410s are dying the biggest being over whelming cost. Tires, Engines, Heads etc etc. A top notch 410 team buys a new rearend, runs it 12 to 15 races and has to get rid of it because the HP and good tire are starting to wear it out, a 360 guy can but that rearend and run it 3 more seasons. Less HP less tire, less wear and tear on the ENTIRE driveline.
A 410 guy buys the BEST cylinder heads available today, $6,000 and they will be out dated by the end of the year. two or three rearends a year, and for some reason everyone thinks they need a toter home and stacker trailer.
Racing is like everything else, as soon as a more econmical option comes along most people are going to take it.
Also keep in mind that it is tougher then ever to get people to the tracks now. here in So Cal each and everyone of us have SSOOOO many options as to what to do on Saturday night. Dodgers, Angeles Lakers, Kings, Ducks Pay Per View Boxing or MMA, NASCAR on Saturday night etc etc etc. Pack up the kids (two of them) bring the wife, spend an hour or two or even three getting to the track, Gas, Parking, tickets, food, sodas, Dad gets a beer, Jr. wants a T-Shirt, $200 EASY, twice a month? Holly crap thats a truck payment. Or we could work Saturday morning, make a couple hundred bucks, stay home watch Kyle Busch on the 52 inch plasma w surround sound, BBQ w my wife and not spend all that money and just check the results on the internet before I go to bed.
I think its just a sign of the times.
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410's dying?? They have had 4 races this year two nights they had over 30 cars and the others 27 and 24. Plus the fan count had been much higher at all 4 races then Ventura this year. The fact is that california sprintcar racing is hurting in general. To be honest I'm worried more about Ventura in the last few weeks. Car counts are dropping by the week, and last week they stated there gonna drop the purse and raise back gate prices once again. But how can you blame the racers for taking a week or two off the schedule over there the first three months of the year has been none stop. If your supporting both the sprint and midget classes your racing every single week. Jmo times are tough.
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May 11, 2011 at
03:58:51 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: RonnieG on May 11 2011 at 01:12:28 PM
410's dying?? They have had 4 races this year two nights they had over 30 cars and the others 27 and 24. Plus the fan count had been much higher at all 4 races then Ventura this year. The fact is that california sprintcar racing is hurting in general. To be honest I'm worried more about Ventura in the last few weeks. Car counts are dropping by the week, and last week they stated there gonna drop the purse and raise back gate prices once again. But how can you blame the racers for taking a week or two off the schedule over there the first three months of the year has been none stop. If your supporting both the sprint and midget classes your racing every single week. Jmo times are tough.
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Completely agree with your Ventura assessment. Small correction on your CRA count though. 27 30 21 24 according to USAC. Would also like to point out that those four races cover a nine week period, so It's not like they've been running every weekend. That being said, as long as there are enough cars for a full A main, it really doesn't matter to me if there's 20 or 30 cars. The days of 40-50 cars in any major class anywhere in Cali are long gone. Outside of special events like Trophy Cup. Enjoy what you have, I don't see it changing anytime soon.
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May 11, 2011 at
06:57:21 PM
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Tracks had better start thinking about the Teams/Cars that show up each week. To get a better Car Count/BETTER SHOW tracks need more cars. That is a basic fact. With more cars........ comes more pit crews along with fans. How about this......take $5.00 from front gate and $7 to $10 from back gate. Charge what you want at both gates. (Promoter will be happy) Keep racing purse same but add up totals from front gate and back gate and give each team an equal amount for just showing up . (Pay in the pits before the Main) The 50 cars gets the same as the 40 car idea. I guess you call that a "show up" guarantee for the Teams/Cars. Your still going to be racing for the given Purse. Back when the World of Outlaws started in the 70's, Kinser and Swindell were paid a guarantee over an above the purse just for showing up. Fans came, more teams came and the story has been written for "The Great Show on Dirt". More cars started coming, more fans started coming and they seem to be doing ok in this economy.
Yes, Promoters might see this as a loosing idea but IF more cars, pit crew and fans show up the bottom line will be better for Promoters in their pockets. With cost of racing/travel so high the "show up" guarantee has to help bring Cars to the track. Fans will come if the show is good.........and we know Sprint Car Racing is the best form of racing there is.
Come on Promoter........try something. 24
Lets say 3000 fans times $5.00 and 500 in pits at $8.00 ....split up with Teams..... do the math. It works. Maybe next week after a good show...4000 show up... do the math.
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May 11, 2011 at
08:55:19 PM
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There are a lot of good points/suggestions to this post, one thing that has been brought up a few times here is $$...I think that just about hits the nail on the head. A few years ago I could barely keep track of lap money for the Kindoll Classic, this year I have had a total of 4 people express an interest. I might as well take the opportunity to throw out another line...I'm begging for sponsors again, every penny collected goes to the racers and there is no amount that is too small. The high points to this years race is the same as last year...Billy Wilkerson Fast Time, Walt James Trophy Dash and Hall of Fame Champions Main Event, this year will be the Final Farewell to Jack and Wilda Kindoll making it the 16th event in honor of the former 3 time car owner champions. As it stands right now I have less $$ promised for the entire race than I had last year just for the trophy dash !! I can promise one thing, your kind and generous help will be greatly appreciated by every car owner that opens an envelope with a little extra anything that you might want to throw in...
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May 11, 2011 at
09:25:30 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Cen cal gear head on May 11 2011 at 02:56:49 AM
Im behind every single one of you that has commented on this post. Im a big sprint car fan from hanford ca, it doesnt matter, wing, non,360,410,micro 600. im always at plaza park on friday nights just because its close and i cant head to watsonville unless i take the days off for work, but saturday nights you can count on me being at tulare,hanford,or ventura and perris if nothing closer! Like i said you are all right, we need fans,and support the drivers! I think sprint cars being on tv would help alot also. its just too bad its only WoO or chili bowl thats ever on,or ASCS. Like all of you im a big fan and just love the sport period! nothing like watching these gassers gas it up and slide it in wide open! Everyone have a great weekend of racing!
BTW what track is everyone headed to this weekend?
me-Tulare
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Watsonville on Friday, then over to Tulare on Saturday. If TK does'nt win both shows I will be disappointed. Hopefully Larson will show up, and do'nt discount Jon Allard. BTW Suggs is due for a win. Oh, keep an eye on Rico Abreu, he can run up front.
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May 11, 2011 at
09:29:58 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Buzzard- on May 10 2011 at 10:53:02 PM
How much do you like qualifying?
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Love it! Except at Trophy Cup when 80 cars have to qualify it can get to be a bit much.
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May 11, 2011 at
10:05:30 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: davemahar on May 11 2011 at 09:25:30 PM
Watsonville on Friday, then over to Tulare on Saturday. If TK does'nt win both shows I will be disappointed. Hopefully Larson will show up, and do'nt discount Jon Allard. BTW Suggs is due for a win. Oh, keep an eye on Rico Abreu, he can run up front.
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No Larson. National Midgets @ Angel Park.
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May 11, 2011 at
10:05:44 PM
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Having been to some 360 and 410 wing shows so far this year, both classes put on a terrific show. It would take a more discriminating obsrver than I am, once the green flag drops to notice the differance in the excitement of either class. Somebody questioned whether there is any passing. I see a lot of passing, not to mention the slicing and dicing that usually goes on. One of the things I like is many drivers will run in either class. Like Tommy Tarlton will show up for a 360 or 410 show, and of course I expect to see TK for the Taco Bravo 360 show at W'ville and on Sat. for the KOW show at Tulare this weekend.
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