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Moderators:  /  David Smith Jr

OUTLAW RAID

WIND TUNNEL SPEEDWAY

ESTES JR. SWITCHES TEAMS

MIDGET FOLKS

FINAL LAP

Can all be viewed at: SOONER CIRCLES

Good stuff, man! Thanks for all the info, and commentary as well. Time to race now! Let's get ready to RUMBLE!!

GO THUNDER, too!!!!

Let's Go Racin'!!

Scott Thomason



AM/PM Racing



Dirt = Real Racing



"Heroes get remember, but ledgens never die..."





 

 

Jon,

As usual your article is very good however I would like to discuss a topic you brought up. You made mentioned that you thought the e sprints were beginning to be put on life support. Is this because of the creek numbers that you think this way?

If Brill would have ran tonight, Apr 15, you might have seen 8 to 10 e sprints in the pits. As you know I am putting one together. So this topic is close to my heart. You made everyone aware last year that you did not like this class because you thought it was diluting the sprint car class even more. However, not everyone can justify spending five digits plus on a competitive two barrel motor. Not to long ago Larry Neighbors had his e sprint motor on here wanting 5500 for it and it was brand spanking new. Where I come from 5500 is alot cheaper than 10 grand and above. But, like you know as well as I do no racing is cheap.

I can not tell you why more cars are not showing up to creek. Maybe gas money, maybe people have family things to goto who knows. But, as you have stated this is only the second year of the class. Do not be so anxious to pull the plug. I have talked to a few car owners and they are still waiting to see where this class goes and how the rules unfold. In order for any class to survive the rules need to stay the same year in and year out. No lets change this rule to make the cars faster or lets change this rule becasue everyone else is doing it.

I do know that 81 speedway is going to use the same rules for a e sprint class up there. I talked to C Ray personally over the phone and he said that something needed to be done to draw new blood into the sprint car ranks.They are calling there class a rookie class.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen 

First Erich, Thanks for the compliment and thanks for having interest in reading Sooner Circles.

I offered my 'opinion' on the status of the E-sprint class based on the fact that I cant seem to find any other car owners building them and the talk among current owners who have provided feedback. As I mentioned in the article, I am aware this is only the second season for the class (first for Creek County Speedway). I didnt put everything in the article I could have about the concern whether or not the class would make it as some things Im told arent always to be quoted. I will share one sentiment I have been told by more than one.

While the motor is very inexpensive to race, the purse offered is not conducive to attract many to build them. I hear more than one occasion that the purses are basically "mini stock" purses and thats to low to field a sprint car of any type. When a recent potential owner heard about the purses (he is looking to put a rookie in the sport), first thing out of his mouth was: "Where's the place to buy a champ sprint motor?"

Your reference that I once said I was 'concerned' that another sprint class would dilute the sprint car field, yes I said it and I still believe that. Its already been proven to me. If I look at the cars that have raced the class this year, I see half the field in the class that had run champ sprints recently, very recently.

Lets say car counts pick up to the point where promoters say they can pay a little more. Well, its $40 to start a feature now, champ sprints get $100 at the local level ($250 OCRS). You can bet your bottom dollar that some of the champ sprints would go to the lesser motors your talking about and now we have a class thats getting diluted. If you want a proven example, I give you the "Modifieds". This once mighty budget class has been through the ringer over and over. Look at what has happened via the results you see today. 12 here, 16 there, and now, we see 9's 8's and the like. Sorry, but Im wanting sprint cars to go forward not backwards and tossing in another class (regardless of rule type) isnt going to help jack.

I understand where the promoters are coming from. They have a bottom line to make and they will try anything to make ends meet. The people running the E cars are good people because we all come from the same arena. If they are having fun and enjoy what they are doing, hell, Im happy for them. I enjoy the look of the non-wing sprints blazing around the track, but not at the expense of diluting another class.

Finally, maybe your class has a competitive motor for $5500 today, but tomorrow it will be double, then more. I wont be convinced otherwise. I give you those modifieds of a thousand classes with troubling car counts as excellent examples. There are NO personal agendas here, just a range of opinions. I hope we get to meet at a track sometime soon and chat in person.

May we all enjoy the 2011 racing season whatever we do.

Jon,

One of the few comments that I have is that if the e sprint motors double in price then what would the champ motors be left to do?

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen 

As we all know, in a period of time, all motors increase. Thats just the way the game is played which is why I made the point about the E motors. What will keep the champ motors from increasing to wildly is that they would be to close to injected power plants and if they did, that wouldnt work. It is far easier for a guy to infuse more cash into a $5000 motor than one at a higher price.

Excuse me for being redundant here, but I give you the modifieds as a perfect example as to what happens when you try to make to many pieces out of a small pie.

I know I should just leave it alone and let this post go. However, re reading your post made me remember what one of my comments was going to be.

You made a mention that some car owners were worried about payout. Yes, they payout is not much. However, talking to an official with 81 speedway and their reasoning behind the payout scale at the track made sense to me. They said that the reason the payout was so low was to keep the "money" out of the class. You know as well as I that their are those teams that can outspend the average guy. We see it in every class. Just not in open wheel. In today's racing making money from racing is getting harder and harder

I talked to a driver and car owner that built a e sprint this year that did come from champs at Creek a couple of week ago. He is a fixture in central Oklahoma open wheel racing. He said he loved the non wing racing and this class was for fun. He knew he was not going to make any money from it and he was fine with it.

You made a mention of start money with the champs. Just last night one of the "names " in Oklahoma open wheel racing made a mention of how gas prices kicked them in the rear. They spent 250 on diesel getting to Lawton and only made 100 on just showing up b/c they did not make the A.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen 

Erich

Does this driver your referencing still have a champ sprint? If not, your making my point for me. The pie is being divided. If they do and are going to still race it, then I applaud them. This sport needs growing car counts, not shrinking ones. We, as an industry, are back to square one trying to put people in the seats. In my opinion, offering low quantity car fields isnt going to make a new fan who buys a ticket today to want to return the following week or possibly ever. Its not the cost of a $10 ticket they will weigh out. Its the time they spent at the track and how was the quality of entertainment provided to them. They can always go do something else and thats my concern.

As for the gas expenditure deal, I dont know what else to say except when the Outlaws or ASCS national guys make the haul they do, they know they may spend more in fuel than they take in. A sprint car owner made a good point to me earlier this year when we talked about how gas prices may or may not affect attendance this season. He said:

"Diesel prices are 50% higher now than last year which was $2.89 gal. On average, I went 200 miles round trip to race. At 8 miles a gallon, I spent about $70-$80 (round trip) for each race. For what we have to spend anyway, if another $40 is going to keep us from racing, we should just quit now."

I can assure you this, the "name" being referenced to and any other of the 40 teams that went to Lawton last night didnt leave their shops looking to start a main event that pays $40. As for the amount the team received for not making the A (for the record OCRS pays $125 for non qualifiers), is there someone that pays more? I ask because the way it was put sounded like the pay was a bad thing.

Jon,

As far as I know they still do have the champ and from what my understand is that they will not run it. I also have the understanding that one of their crew members might have an e sprint as well. This driver has been around this sport alot longer than most of us on this board have as well. He has said that the champ prices were starting to get out of hand for him.

I sat next to a champ driver last night at Lawton and discussed this with him. When you said that the champ motors had no room to grow in engine prices both he and I had to disagree. We know that the OCRS are running TI valves now. What prevents them in the future from running Aluminium blocks? Yes the rules say they are not to run them but last year the rules said not to run Ti valves as well.

I am just posting what was said by the driver's wife on FB last night about what they made not starting the A. They are a respected couple in the Oklahoma racing scene as well.

Also, was not the OCRS brought about as an alternative for a cheaper form of racing in comparison to the 410's in Tulsa?

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen 

I never said the motors had no more room to grow (see post again). I said they were limited as to how far they could go because if they got to close to injected motor pricing, it wouldnt work.

As for the comment about pay, where can one go to get more pay for non-qualifiers? Were your friends disappointed in the pay?

PS: As far as the Ti valves go, a meeting was announced in advanced and called to order. The teams asked for them via a majority vote. If they had voted the other way, we would have kept the rules the same.

I'd say a 40 car count last night shows the concern of this issue is minimal at best. I know Lanny was happy with what was delivered and we got good compliments from the fans last night a well. We cant please 100% of everyone. To have a good field of cars, a happy promoter and a complimentary fan base as we got last night is very acceptable to us.

To your 410 vs 360 question: Yes and it STILL is

To make it clear I DO NOT HATE THE OCRS. Just that the way OCRS goes will dictate how the 2 barrel classes will go at the rest of the tracks.

Let me ask you Jon, if you know, what are the top teams spending on their motors? I bet some of them have close to an injected motor now. I have been told by a champ driver that runs weekly at one of the tracks around here his motor was about 12 grand.

I never said that a 40 car count was not bad in fact it was tremendous. I will give it up to you guys. However, I know there were a few cars sitting at home because car owners knew they did not have the motor to compete.

Anytime, you have happy promoters and happy fans then you are doing something right.

As far as my friends. I think they were more disappointed in their performance on the night instead of the payout.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen 

They are spending more than an 'E' motor and less than an injected motor. I have to disagree with you Erich on the reference that teams are spending close to an injected motor. If that were true, why race for $1000 to win when you can race more bigger $$$$ for "little more"?

To be competitive at all in the injected class with the front runners, you are lucky to do so with a $25,000 bullet. Our organization isnt close to that. Allow me to offer you Matt Sherrell as an example. He is a reasonable threat to win an OCRS event. Last year he was in the top 5 six out of ten times running a very limited schedule. In 2009, he was top 5 in 10 of 16 events and won 2 features! Have you seen his operation? His car owners are some good people. They roll into the pits on an old OPEN trailer. Car and tool box gets rained on going down the highway! If you seen this set up, then you know they arent close to spending big bucks on their equipment. What they are good at is working hard and work smart on a limited budget. He was 8th last night and if not for a problem with the car, he was set to be in the top 5 again. You DONT need big bucks to win an OCRS event.

Yes Jon, I have seen Matt's operation and I respect that he pulls to the races in an open trailer as well. I have always beleived that trailers do not make a racer b/c they stay in the pits while the racer is on the track.

However, he does have a full midget as well as a two barrel to if I am not correct? I am not bashing Matt at all. You brought his name into this discussion and not I.

Why I mentioned the full midget is how many of the two barrel guys can afford a OCRS two barrel car and a full midget at the same time.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen 

Not many INCLUDING Matt. Car is owned by others. He is just their hired driver.