Forum: Racing From The Past (go)
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Old Nance catalog

Brian I need a photo copy of this book . I have a newer Nance cataolg I will make a copy for you in trade. Lets sling some mud.

Not a problem Trammell. First one like it I had ever seen.

So were those cool old coupe and sedan bodies reproduction bodies back then?

in case you don't know, the bodies were fiber glass , were intended for use as race car applications. if you might think otherwise. i guess i am responding to your question were they reproduction bodies .....

Well, there was a reason I questioned this... Fisrt off, I am a lover of old hot rods and I wondered from time to time how much classic Detroit steel we sacrificed to the mud gods... But secondly when I was in elementary school my best freinds dad had a 1940 Ford Deluxe that he had raced at some point in the 60's. The old race car had sat in his back yard and was grown through with weeds and such. But I know that race car was original steel. Spent many of my days after school sitting in the seat of that massive old coupe pretending I was throwing mud.

Of course the 40 Ford was a original metal body. The early supermodifieds were channeled down and narrowed from of the metal bodies from the Model A cars from the very late 20's and early 30's. My favorite super, the #55 that Frankie Lies drove and owned by Kenny Riffel was a metal body. By the late 60's the metal bodied cars were hard to get a hold of thus became the era of the fiberglass Vicky's and the Duck Tailed coupes etc. All derived from the Model A's. You can still buy these fiberglass bodies from Speedway Motors in Lincoln, NE. Many mud bodders and sand draggers use the Vicky bodies still.

Who had the first fiberglass super bodied car in the Kansas Oklahoma area? Not a sprint tailed version.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

"I wondered from time to time how much classic Detroit steel we sacrificed to the mud gods"

By the time stock cars rolled around to the 55-57 chevys etc. the hot rod guys would almost cry when one was cut up to be a dirt tracker. Now you see how many of them are setting around. The came the Chevelles and then the Camaro's and try to find one of those setting around. They were everywhere in the 60's and 70's. Some of the hot rod guys would not sell some of there stuff if they new it was going to be a roundy roundier. It was a sore subject back then. But look now it made them worth much more today.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

Narrow bodies hit the radar first in the lawton/wichita falls area. In regards to first fiberglass supermodified bodies. I think they came from amarillo.

Would it be a Zink car.... Or perhaps one of Buddy Cagles awesomely cool supers?

Hey Warren or somebody else might remember,,,in the early 60s, 61 or 62,there were 3 cars i remember from Wicitha if i got the numbers right #25 that Harold Leep drove and maybe Grady Wade,,and a #84 Red Forshes drove other people drove it,, i think Jay Woodside drove it some....,And i remember a #3 car Jay Woodside drove i think it was 1962 at the Jayhawks Nationals in Topeka ,,Jay got hurt in that race when he spun goin into turn 3 and a car hit him in the side like to ripped his leg off.....All 3 of these cars were mostly Fiberglass bodyed Supermods and not sprint type,,Its been along time ago but i think they were some of the first ones mostly Fiberglass and i think all 3 of them were built in Wichita. There were some other cars up around KC and Topeka in 63 and 64 that had Fiberglass bodys ,,or everything except the side panels were metal..Them 3 cars were some of the first fiberglass cars i remember that were from Kansas od OK.

Wasnt Gilbets car the T Coupe mostly fiberglass,, the white # 19 that Gordon Wolley drove.That car i think was built around late 61 or the start of 62..Up at Knoxville in 61 and 62 there were some wild looking cars up there some of them had to be mostly fiberglass...Knoxville was Supermods for the first 5 years,,it would be cool to have a picture of all the cars that ran there.I remember that Robbins car with the wing in the first nationals,,he had that right some years ahead because he won it.....

It is cool trying to remember what cars were fiberglass back then...Good Question...The cars up north were alot lighter 1300 to 1400 pounds in the mid 60s weight was speed the lighter you were the faster you went with the no engine limits.There were some car under 1300 pounds with no driver..Them cars were very fast some of the lap records they set in the middle 60s ,,it took the WOO till 1978 3 years after they started in 76 to beat some of the times.

The 1800 limit they put on the Supermods in like Tulsa was one of the best rules ever put in place..It made a great class.For safer competitive racing.

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

The Supermodifieds were all unlimited cubic inches. chryslers used either 383 or 413's. The GMs used either Buickor Pontiacs. The pontiac were the engine of most owners. They used the GMC truck block from 57 or 58, which would allow an huge over bore. I am not sure what the fords used but they were the first to go with the small blocks. The chevy small blocks could not stand the rpm in those days. If a car ran a chevy small block they would finish back in the pack. The Welds were the first to win on a regular basis. In late part of the 63 season the chevies started getting better parts and by the 63 season it was starting to be more competitive.

As far as the body went I can not remember if the #19 was fiberglass. Gilberts #19 had several different drivers but Gordon Wolley was the one who made the car famous. I have photos of it and can remember touching the car. The last roadster based in topeka was owed by the Still family. Don Elliott was the last regular driver of that car. Thad Dosher was the very last driver of that roadster and totaled it at Belleville in 1962. It had asteel model-t body. Most of the early supers had some sprinter front parts for a body but the tail would not be allowed on the car. Again the Welds had there own version of the tail section. If you look close it was a 1957 trunk section narrowed.

Now on to the Jay Woodside wreck. It happen in the middle of the back straightaway. It was caused solely by Jay. He was unable to pass and drove over another car. If one wants to see the car that was the car that was drove over. Look at the nose of the blue # one driven by Don Elliott. If the nose has damage on it that was where it was cracked. That caused the car to go into a combination roll and flipping action. The wreck totalled the sprint car. I was there to witness the wreck and it was a bad wreck. As told to our family by Jay was that he was told either win the race or walk. Wether that was true or not that is what was told to or family. One of our family was at the hospitat almost every day while he was in the hospital in Topeka.

The number three was a Pete Forshee Owned Car. The photos that I have of this car were taken at Belleville and may have been the last ones taken before the wreck. At this race Charlie Lutkie was the driver. The number 25 photos that I have are before it was painted red. This photo has Walt McWhorter sitting behind the wheel. Again there were several different drivers that drove this car. The car is still around. I do not know where or if the family is going to display the 25 this year. The car is on this site I do believe. It is nice to have photos like these to refresh ones memory.

Gilbert's 19 was metal.

Curt Grogan

i believe the first fiberglass bodied non sprintcar in Kansas City was Greg Weld's roadster in 1962.

Curt Grogan

You may be right on Greg Welds Rodster car being the first fiberglass car ,i could not remember if it was or not.But i remembed the other 3 cars i talked about and the #19 of Gilberts that Wooley drove.I was also there the night Woodside turned it sideways and got nailed,,,bad crash i rememberJay was hurt pretty bad. and it was quit a ordeal for him and his family...I was at every race from 62 to the end of 65 at Topeka.I remembered them cars from Wicihta i was thinking they may have been fiberglass.I remember at Knoxville in 62 Wooley was leading and Jerry Richert passed him for the win ..Wooley said the mag was messing up and it was not running right the last few laps.Belk finished not fare behind ...Belk and Richert started side by side in 18th and 19th place.They both came threw the field..I guess the Gilbert car was not fiberglass,,it was a cool looking. body.

On the small block Chevys Jack Belk #37 owned by Al Weiland ran a 327 block bored and stroked to a 364.Alot of the parts for that engine were machined in the Iola and Yates Center Kansas area.I believe that car won more or as many A mains in 62 63 64 then any of the cars cars at Topeka ,,Al Weiland was i think the only one to figure out the small block chevys at that point and how to keep one together at high RPMs.At Lakeside in 1963 Greg Weld won Belk was second and Elliot 3rd in points.Belk also won both Belleville highbanks fair dates in 62 and 63 with the 327 block..Belleville was a tuff track on engines,,the following week after Belleville at Topeka Belk was leading the A Main at topeka and the engine Blow,,it was the only engine Weiland lost in the 3 years of 62 63 .64.The weekend at Belleville used it up.

.Belk broke his hand at a race in Joplin in1962 and had to set out the last 4 weeks at Topeka and Don Elliott won the last 4 weeks to just pass him in points.And in 64 Al Weiland son was in a life threatning auto accident and he lived several states away and Al would not run the car while he was away with his son in the hospital the last 5 or 6 weeks...Again Don Elliott won the last 4 weeks and Belk jumped in Luther Brewers #97 the last few races and Elliott beat Belk by 5 points..In 1963 Belk broke several axles at Topeka amd Don Elliot won it again.

Like Belk said you got to be there amd finish to win it,,and Elliott was there and did what he had to do and it was his to win and he did it..Elliot was running a Pontiac 383 if i remember right.

There was a trick to the crank shafts on the small block 327 chevy,,if you ran a stock crank in a 327 it had to be turned down or the fast ones would not hold up..Al Weiland had that crank built so it was not a stock 327 crank it was stroked to a 364 with the bore is why it held up so well..

.

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

This I believe was the #3 that Jay was driving in Topeka in 62. Here Charlie Lutkie was driving the car at Belleville. The #19 Gilbert car appears to have had a problem during hot laps in the number four corner. This may have been around Memorial Day when the Jayhawk Racing Assocation ran there first of two events there. I'll have to check my records futher to be sure.

This photo may be the only one where Greg Weld (first), Jack Belk (second) and Don Elliott (third)were photographed together. This was in 1963 at Lakeside Speedway, my records do not show Don racing at Riverside.

I got this photo of the 3 of them also,,you may be right it may be the only one of the 3 of them together ,i got others of Belk and Elliott and Belk and Weld.I meant to say Lakeside,,you are right on that for sure.You are right also about the cars back then like the #3 Charley Lutkie is in they changed drivers alot in them cars.From night to night you had to wait and see who was in some of the cars.But there was always good ones showing up .

If i remember right the 2 days events in Belleville may have been in August,i know one of them was on my Birthday over the weekend around the 23rd of August.I would have to check my records also on the dates..,i have the full results of seversal of the races at Belleville and the results of both 2 day evernt they had in 62 and 63.I believe thatnBelk won and Art Dishinger and Jerry Weld ran 2nd and 3rd at one of them....You got some great pictures there.Would love too get together and look at pic you got..And show you some of mine also.I sure do love that Belleville..There is no place like that track.

I just came accoss a few weeks ago pics of Ray Lee Goodwin winning at Belleville in 1975.Ray Lee told me it was the last win of his carear.I sent copys to Ray Lee.he was driving for Speedy Bill.

I didnt know if you know me i am Tim Belk,, Jacks youngest son...It is so nice to talk to people on here that have been to races back then that i have been to...I was pretty young back then but remember most of it.Maybe i can figure out how to post some pics on here,,but my problem is i travel alot and am on my laptop most of the time..Its hard to get stuff downloaded on a laptop were i can post them......Great talking to you and the other also that put in,,....

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

I had figured out who I was talking to but could not remember the first name. It has been about ten years since we last talked. It may have been longer as time flies. You and I used to have each others number but I know yours has been misplaced. If you can e-mail me at ( [email protected] ) I will say hello again from Dennis.

Tim if you need to, you can email them to me and I'll post them for you.