Forum: Oklahomatidbits.com General Forum (go)
Moderators:  /  David Smith Jr

Just as you can post you opinion and ideas so can everyone else that is why these are called Forums. .

I simply asked the question of when did the rule that waz printed in the 1972 State Fair Speedway Program regarding Yellow Flags change. I posted a photograph of that program and the rules on flags then..

One would think there would be different rules for Self Starters versues Sprnt Cars that need to be push started. I assume you have never attended the Tulsa Shootout and watched the Kart or Quad Races there. They do not use spot yellow flags or a full course yellow there. They keep racing and get the program in before the curfew. With 1,100 entries there is not much time for full course cautions as with events that may have less than 100 entries.

I never said that a stalled Sprint Car with no self starter should be left in the impact zone of the racetrack.

I stated that if there is a stalled vehicle, not in the impact zone, why have a full course yellow.

There are backpackers in all forms of competition for speed, not saying they are bad people or below others. However no matter who is the backpacker during that race, why

penalize the leaders, who ever they may be at the time. Could be the slowest drivers on the track when using inverted starts during the first few laps of the race. They should not be penalized for another drivers error.

As the motorcyles, Quads, Karts and Cars all race on the same tracks in most areas on Oval Dirt Tracks, it only seems logical to look at each of the different rule books regarding race procedures to compare how they are done.

Do you hve the lap times from the 1970's and 1980's to compare with today's lap times at spceific racetracks? How many seconds or fractions of a second difference is there from the Super Modifides and the Sprint cars today? How faster are Factory Stock cars today than then? I submit there is not much difference, perhaps 20mph in the maximum mile per hour on the tracks, however I would be interested in seeing the stats in print if you have them. I do have time trial results from NCRA from 1972 if you would be interested in seeing those.  Emmett Hahn 1972 Super Modified 22.3 Sec on the 1/2 Mile at SFS averaging about 81mph.  I am sure the speeds are greater today as those types of cars are 600-800 lbs lighter, better tires and much larger wings.  However, at SFS the track is smaller as they no longer run  on the 1/2 mile, so is there a greater speed today there?  Anyone have the current times and MPH at SFS on the 3/8 mile track?  

I have raced motorcycles at speeds in excess of 160 mph on closed courses, and I have raced in the Pro Stock division of IDBA and NHRA Motorcycle Drag Racing and in Funny Bike. So I have had my share of traveling at high speeds within a few feet of a concrete wall designed to keep a car inside the racetrack, but not a motorcycle traveling at over 180mph.

When I have open weekends I am the Track Announcer for Port City Raceway Micro Sprints and on select Friday's Motorcycles-Quads and Karts, I also announced the Yahoo Indoor race series for several years. I am also the official track announcer for the Central Motorcycle Road Racing Association which sanctions a ten race points series consisting of 20 events a season in Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma.  I drove the Rogers Lake transport on the AMA GNC  and FUSA Circuits for two seasons traveling over 65,000 miles along with past AMA GNC Champion Bubba Shobert, Gary Rogers, Garry Baheler and Old Pro Jimmy Long. . I own a 100 transponder digital electronic timing and scoring system which we use at several events.

My company Action Motorsports Productoins produce various motorsports events including AMA Pro AM Sanctioned Arenacross races, Free Style Jump off Contests and Monster Truck shows. We produced three Dirt Track races during the OKC State Fair at State Fair Speedway, and produce a few indoor race series that include Motorcycles, Quads, Dirt Karts and Hot Rod Mowers. We have produced races in Tunica, Mississippi, Ft Smith, Arkansas, Tahlequah, Oklahoma, Kellyville, Oklahoma, McAlester, Oklahoma, Ardmore, Oklahoma, Tulsa, Oklahoma at the Expo Pavillion and the Tulsa Expo Building, the Myriad in OKC, and indoora at the State Fair Arena, Salina High Banks Speedway to name a few.

Flame on.....

Are you the announcer that says Donny Rae Crawford 15 times a lap? He's a good racer, but I don't hear Steve Kinser's named mentioned that much.

Congratulations on your incredible accomplishments, you seem to be around enough to know everything about cars racing on dirt tracks, and how to fix it. My car keeps getting on the right rear real hard, you think maybe you can help me with that? I've tried everything.

On your lap times, they are incredibly faster now than they used to be. The cars have much more horsepower, and weigh much less. Setups have gotten better as well as other handling characteristics of the cars.

Now I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion on this forum. It's just that your opinion is really getting old. You say it over and over and over again, and we understand what you mean. There is a difference between an opinion and forcing your opinion on others, which you did in this thread.

Announce on...

My announcing format is to announce which race and what kind of race, qualifier heat race, B Feature or other or the A Main Event. And the number of laps scheduled. I announce before the race the line up with drivers names and home town or what other info I am supplied. I hardly ever try to talk over the race cars during the race as most the PA systems are not capable of being heard over the engines. I then announce who placed 3rd, 2nd, and the winner. And go to the next race entering the track.

Not sure where you heard Donnie Crawford a number of times, I do not announce at Port every weekend, only when I am in Tulsa not working on another circuit or one of our events. Aarons son Brian is the co-announcer there when I am out of town.

Glad some of you are avid readers of the posts I write, in favor of or critical towards the ideas and history I have to offer. I am certain I make mistakes and may not be up to date with many things. I am just wondering why so many of the traditional ways have been changed. When they were changed and why?

You folks in OKC seem to have held onto tradition much more than the tracks in the Tulsa area. I believe that is a good thing.

You could call Joey Duvall for set up ideas on Modifides, and Garry Baehler for ideas on Midgets and Red Daley for setups on Quads and Motorcycles. I don't have information on set ups, but I do know a few people that do. Johnny Wilson at Budget Auto Salvage in Tulsa is superb on Micro Set ups also.

We are currently producing Indoor Racing at the Ok Corral in Harrah, Oklahoma and plan for next season to run every Saturday night from October thru April. Folks there are super friendly and love to support the races. We look forward to returning there in October.

Thanks for the answer to my questions of perhaps the why the rule was changed, but does anyone remember around when that took place.

Flag Language from the SFS program

Yellow : Continue Racing, hold your position.

Green with Yellow: Continue Racing with caution, passing is allowed.

Neither said to slow down and reform in the position you were running in the previous lap to the caution, put a cone or cones on the track and wait for a green flag to go back to racing.

That is my question, when did those procedures come into play?

Wow that's a hell of list of accomplishements, you seemed to have done it all ,But I once stayed at a Holiday Inn.

Come on guys, you are going to make amp feel not wanted. Can't we just ALL get along? Hope you have a great day.

One if our starters wife works for a large chain of Hotels and she gets employee discounts at Holiday Inn, Crowne Plaza, Candle Wood Suites and others in their group. $29.95 per night for any of those in any city across the US, unless they are booked up. Sweet deal for a very nice room. Candle Wood Suites is my favorite of all when I am out for a week or two. They provide free laundry, free exercise equipment, free video dvds, each room has a nice TV, lounge chair and a comfy bed. All are stocked with dishes and utensils a stove and dishwasher. Ice maker in the refrigerator and a complimentary bag of popcorn in the micro wave. There is a Pantry in the lobby that has over 200 food items including fresh fruit, frozen entres, ice cream treats and more. The Pantry is open 24/7 and is on the honor system so there is no attendant needed.

Holiday Inn is my second choice, as they are always close to the race tracks, however if it is less than 20 miles I will take the Cancle Wood over a Holiday Inn. When the Performance Racing Industry convention was held in Indy we always stayed at the Crowne Plaza right by the convention center.

At a few of the RR Tracks, they are located so far from the motels, or ones you would actually sleep in, that the majority of the participants and staff now stay at the race tracks. Many today have travel trailers, motorhomes and some sleep in their hauler trailers. You will see tents and even a few sleeping in their cars in foul weather. The aroma of steaks, shirmp and chicken being cooked on charcoal grills fills the air follwing a full day of racing at sunset. We start at 6am the next morning so things get quiet around 9pm following the consumption of a couple of kegs of ice cold beer provided by sponsors and the club.

Next CMRA race will be May 18-19-20 at Hallett Motor Racing Circuit. Saturday is a 6 hour endurance race, Sunday is 20 Sprint Races that always provide a good show. They typically have over 500 entries over the two days of racing.

Motocross may be dangerous to unfortunate riders caught up in racing tangles, but it pays over $20,000 in cash to win a Supercross event and around $10,000 to win an Arenacross event, that is just the contingency money paid by the manufactures, does not include the purse. Honda's contingency money for MX is over $5,000,000 this season. .  Tyler Bowers 15 yeras old, from Kentucky won $50,000 at the BooKoo U.S. Open of Arenacross at the Mohegan Sun Casino this past winter.  Not bad for a 15 year old, and he won it racing on a factory production Honda CRF-450 that retails for around $5,000.  Risk may be higher than some other sports, but there are some rewards. 

As far as Motocross, you hardly ever see a red flag, but you will see spot caution flags. 

Motorcycle race on Short Track, 1/2 Mile and Mile Oval Dirt Tracks it is called Dirt Track Racing, hardly ever seen on main stream medai as it would become very popular, thus it has many competitors that don't want it seen. . 

However it has recently become a new item at Las Vegas in the Casinos and is shown live on internet streaming video/autio in the Casinos there.  Bets are placed before the race. 

www.liveisports.com

www.mavtv.com

Caution in Motorcycle Racing:  Dirt Track Yellow Flag at a corner station held steady indicates an incident is ahead.  The vehicle/rider is not in the racing groove or in an impact zone.  Racing continues, passing is allowed and that flag indicates there is activity off the racing groove and to be aware of it.  After every competitor has made one or two laps, they should be aware of that incident and make adjustments accordiingly.  Note: Road Racing may or may not require a waving yellow or may require a Red Flag, especially if fluids are seen on the race surface.

Waving Yellow Flag at a corner station indicates there is either a rider or vehicle ahead near the racing groove or near an impace zone.  Continue racing with cautoin, passing between the waving yellow flag and the incident is not allowed.  Hold you position unless you have commited to the pass prior to seeing the waving yellow.

Red Flag:  If a rider/vehicle is crashed, handlebar hit the ground, on the racetrack  or in an impact zone the Red Flag is thrown.  In Road Racing All Corner Stations go red at the same exact time.  That call is made over the radios from the Race Control track official.  Red flag may be used for a Medical incident where track officials and the Med Unit are unable to service the injured participant without stopping the race.   There is an Ambulance Flag that may be used to indicated to participants that the Med Unit is enroute to an incident and will be using a portion of the race surface ahead.  No passing is allowed between the Ambulance Flag and the Med Unit.  That flag is typically only used duing endurance road racing.  

My point once again is I believe the caution and red flag rule got blended at some race tracks, and seem to be one and the same with the exception of the vehicles not coming to a stop.  My guess is perhaps this was implemented to accomate the non-self starter vehicles to keep the program running avoiding having to use the push trucks to re-start the fieled. 

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If you have not been to this track in Texas, one may want to travel to the Heart O Texas Speedway in Waco, owned and promoted by Gene and Bill Adamcik. .

They still use the Green/Yellow rule there.  

Heart O Texas Caution Rules

http://www.heartotexspeedway.com/Rules/2007%20Rule%20Book.pdf

Hey Jd...Do the PA tracks have spot yellows?

http://www.toledo-bend.net/speedway/rules.asp?request=t-rules

Green with yellow: Continue Racing but with Caution
Continue to race, but be aware of the race conditions as the caution is also displayed. Watch for the problem(s) on or near the racing surface. This may be a slow moving car due to mechanical problems and attempting to leave the track. This green/yellow combination may also be a car in one of the turns against the wall, or to the inside of the track just off the racing surface.

I've heard stories that seem to indicate that when humans are involved in any process there is always some error. also.. inconsistancies at a local short track?!!? no way lol.

Good point,.

What is interesting is during the winter we even video taped a few of the races and it was more difficult to tell what the results were from watching some of the videos than having Nickalee Sowders and Nikki Smith's job standing in the infield at the start finsh line keeping score. Like I and Aaron and the staff at Port City always remind those that think they can do better, the Infield and Press Box has a few extra seats available for anyone wanting to volunteer to keep score for the night. I always bring along a few extra clip borads and score sheets.

My Electronic Timing and Scoring system may work on the Indoor but I have to adjust false laps as the track infield is too narrow and it picks up the vehicles transponders twice per lap. If a rider gets out of sync it picks them up on the back stretch vrs the front stretch, which is not good.

In Road Racing the participants are required to work/shadow different staff positions prior to getting their competition license.

As stated, the track officials are humans, and mistakes do happen. But their decisions are final following posting of the results and after the listed protest time. I would say most times it all comes out in the wash over the season. Some times those types of deals go in your favor, and you hardly ever see anyone that gets the advantage asking for the call or event to be reversed.

I think you got the wrong neighbors.

If you want your green and yellow at the same time crap so bad, why don't you get aaron to do it at Port City???????

Bobby Springer #25

What does Knoxville do? Chico? What about Williams Grove? Skagit? Maybe even a East Bay?

Actually, Aaron has four infield corner marshals that have Yellow Flags.

Never said I wanted it, just trying to find the answer as to when and why it changed at SFS. .

Once again the question is:

When did it change at State Fair Speedway? And why did it change at State Fair Speedway?

Nope on the spot yellows in Pa. spin or wreck they pace the track or stop.But they do have strings of lights Green , Yellow , Red strung across the track in various locations to let you know to GO , STOP,or SLOW DOWN , thats pretty cool, kind of like Christmas all over again.

Again AMP I have said this before, go ask Lanny to a get these SPOT YELLOWS back into the program , he will give you one of those entertaining speeches of his you can bet on it , AMP you need to do this and then it will put a stop to all these issues where you still wonder about today from back then , put your mind at ease so to speak, Tell Lanny how it needs to be done like it was way back when and then let us know how it went.

According to the reports, Lanny does not need the Green/Yellow or spot Yellows, he just stays green when a caution when it is not needed. Sounds simple enough to me.

I'll give you a dollar if you ask Lanny AND film it. (JD, we could win $10,000 on AFV!)

What Reports AMP?, You don't seem to understand it's Lanny's way or the Highway,You would have NO say in the matter, he'd run your butt out before you were through with your first sentence.

Yep Cheese we would be sharin $10,000 for the AFV show and then we would get to the finals with a spontaneously combusting human and win the $100,000, be kind of like the month of money coming up for the WoO, Ya know Oskaloosa and the one night stand for 10 grand and then on to the Nationals for that 4 day extravaganza that pays that $100,000 plus money, Just take home all the money with that video.LOL