Forum: SCRAFAN.COM Forum (go)
Moderators: ljennings

When Levi got black flagged Friday night did his points for that race get taken away?

no...they scored him 20th that night

also placed him 7th,for lineup on Sat.????..'BFD'...penalty should have been more severe than that,for intensionally try pop l/f/ or knock out front end as HARD as he hit #71!!.....also was said,after black flag,he again intensionally ran into #71's Mule exiting track,entering pits!!......Thanks USAC'S Steve O.!!...for you're 'not' ruling!!.......

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Brucer'(brewskis')

While we are on the subject of rulings how is it a team can go through the scales to check weight as many as eight times until he finally passes the required weight. USAC must think the Cali fans are stupid or do not pay attention. We are paying attention and we are tried of getting Sht on by USAC please Don K. find a way to have your own 410 club and tell USUC where they can go. The fans will support you. We all have seen that USAC will not.
Ken Allred

Care to elabborate more on the Scale Issues n' which nite in particlar you refur, KA??.........

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Brucer'(brewskis')

I love these discussions. In order to maintain order, there must be rules. Mere mortals write the rulebooks. I find if difficult to believe that there exists a mortal that could write a rule to specify penalties for exactly what transpired between Jones and Gardner (including add-on penalties for allegedly bouncing off pit equipment which I never saw even though I watched Levi come all the way into the pits). Steve-O told Jones over the radio not to do it and Jones ignored him. Steve-O then took the only course of action allowed him in the rule book which was to disqualify Jones from the event. I don't see where Steve-O had any leeway to do anything outside of that other than fines (which may very well have occurred but you likely will never hear or know anything about it)

About the only thing that I suppose anyone can squabble about is that Levi was scored 20th. Normally a DQ puts you dead last in the results so I would think he should have been scored 28th. As to why Levi started 7th, that is where the combined points from the 2 nights put him. The DQ took him from being the high points man to 7th. Because of the invert, he only lost 1 row. The Perris people came up with the points system if you want to complain about that, talk to them. The Ovals are a unique event where the points go with the driver, not the car. The way I read the rules, Windom conceivably could get paid off to get jump out of Walker's car and use any entered car he wanted to start the event on the front row. That doesn't seem right to me but that's the way it's structured. The rules are the rules you started the event with, if something unforseen occures that doesn't seem fair your only course of action is to change them later.

Friday nite, East was weighed and weighed and weighed on the scales once if your light your light how many times to you get to weigh in. If the situation is different than I stood there and watched then someone tell me. More than willing to listen. This seems unfair to Cory Kruseman being number 13 in the points. The Levi Jones thing, I agree when the black flag was given why was he given any points at all, or best case last place points. Does USAC need these teams so bad that they would bend the rules to keep their respective car owners happy. What about the car owners who followed the rules was this fair to them. This is exactly why there are so many California cars parked and running the PAS they do not want anything to do with USAC.

I may be wrong but a few year's ago when Matt Mitchell drove a Jory Team car to Rip Williams Rip later climbed into the higher scoring Mitchell ride. It also seems that Nic Faas got into the Priestly car with the Hagen earned point's? !? !

I already had figured out you can switch cars and not be pentalized.

My question is how can someone be black flagged and retain points? Anything after I could careless. They could have mud wrestled , i dont care. Levi was blacked flagged for a reason, should have been no points. Unless there is a rule that says points are not taken away......

Seems like people are very frustrated about this so I checked the USAC Rule Book. From what I read below, the ruling and scoring was done correctly. . . .

9.20 Black Flag, Stop for Consultation or Detention - The Stewards are empowered to order any driver at any time to stop at the pits for consultation or for detention of a specified time period by displaying the black flag. 

A. The decision to order a driver to stop at the pits may be made, if in the opinion of the Stewards, any condition exists which could cause the driver or his car to create a hazard to the driver or other competitors. Division Procedures may apply. 

B. A driver may be ordered to stop at the pits, if in the opinion of the Stewards, the driver has flagrantly violated the rules or is driving in a reckless, improper or unsportsmanlike manner. 

C. The Stewards’ decision to order or not to order a driver to stop at the pits is not protestable. 

D. When a driver is ordered to the pits because of a hazardous condition of his car, the proper repairs must be made before the car will be permitted to continue in competition. The decision to permit the car to continue may be made by the Technical Director or his representatives and is not protestable. 

E. Drivers, who in the opinion of the Stewards clearly ignore the black flag signal and do not stop at the pits on the next lap after the signal has been given, will be penalized, in that no laps will be officially credited following the lap on which the signal was first given until the driver brings the car to the pits. The decision as to whether the black flag was ignored is not protestable. 

Bottom line Levi acted like a douche and should be suspended for his actions we as sprintcar fans know all to well what a bent or broken front end part can cause if fails at speed

Thanks Randy for the clarification. There is a difference between a black flag and a DQ. It appears Levi was not DQ'd but black flagged for violating Rule 9.20b. As far as further penalties go, it appears rule 10.10 and 10.11 could be applied where the Chief Steward can remove completed laps from a competitor. While we all wish things weren't so subjective, I find it hard to see where any official would further penalize the National points leader. I'm also pretty sure it cost him the lead in the DoY points for the seat in the Indy Lights car. Let's say Clauson wins the Indy Light seat for next year and Levi lost it by the difference in points between 2nd place and 20th place. I'd say he was then penalized pretty hard. It he loses it by the difference between 20th and 28th place, we've got a whole another argument.