On Friday, August, 13th 2010 at Knoxville, IA during the Nationals, there was a presentation on the new LS Sprint Car engine developed by Ron Shaver with the help of Danny & Donny Schatz that people have been talking about for the past several weeks. Go to www.openwheel.org to see the details, video and photos of the engine/presentation.

Member of this message board since 1997

Member of this message board since 1997

It sounds like this may be a great step in bringing down the cost of race engines. Hope it works before anyone's car counts go down more than it has already.

Here is something to kick around...If this motor is in the ball park of a good 360 motor, price wise, would we still need to have a 360 series? That would make for awesome car counts everywhere and we still have the 305's as an entry level as long as they keep them from getting out of hand. Just a thought.

Good track to test an engine.

Don't know about the logic of doing it during the Nationals in a race where "others" are racing for position and money!

TSA...It's not a GROPE...it's a Freedom Pat!

Member of this message board since 1997

Well, as long as he had a "Dozen Dunkins" delivered to each team after the race I will let this one slip by!

TSA...It's not a GROPE...it's a Freedom Pat!

Here's the direct link to the presentation: http://www.openwheel.org/ls.html

^ SkyRaider Ultralight -> ELSA

Man it really kills me that this topic doesn't generate more interest in this forum. I guess it just proves how few real sprint car drivers, owners and real fans are left in this forum. This is something that could really change sprint cars. Think about a chance to have a single motor across the board. I could run my local shows that were 360's but still be able to go race the Nationals and have the same motor as everyone else does. I guess the people that frequent this forum would rather argue about blow up dolls and weather TK was drunk and attacking kids with leaf blowers. Please can with have some REAL content on this forum for once.

Thank you!!!

He did not take any money

The drivers agreed to let him

Being to picky

Correct me if i am wrong but i was under the impression that the cost of a good 360 motor is relatively close to that of a 410. I am not sure so don't yell at me. Seems to me the only difference is cubic inches, all the parts still cost the same. This spec motor deal is a great idea if they can police it.

If you want to bring the cost down there are simple ways to do so. Lower the compression numbers to 13 or so to 1 . That is the biggest killer of the 410 motor. With this lower c.r. 25 nites is no problem except maybe springs. You could also look at a smaller injector or small tube headers to take the big heads down a notch.

Why would the racing comunity get all amped up over this...it's still an unproven race package...these guys are looking for someone else to run this package and find out what the real flws-problems are over long term race conditions and multipul rebuilds....time after time you find this happen-good idea, but will it work long term.....besides check around ..you can buy a good used /fresh 410 producing the same H.P. for 1/3 the new cost of this motor..and neither are competitive unless the track slicks off..so as long as a money guy is allowed to run the latest and greatest ..most won't want to compete..besides Schatz says around$13000,,next guy $15500..Shaver $20k plus the bullshit never ends..if you ever delt with a engine builder you'd know what I mean

It seems to me that, for this to work, there will need to be tracks in convenient locations, working together, to form a series for these motors. For example, the Interstate 29 tracks at Grand Forks, Fargo and Husets could work together. Also possible would be Interstate 90 tracks of Hartford, Husets and Jackson. If you get 2-3 tracks within reasonable distance of each other, working together, you could arrange a series combining the tracks for one point fund and less travel for the race teams.

I like Hawg's post. A LOT.

I think the people that whine about 410s or they are done with racing, where were they when 430s were outlawed??? Had they already quit the racing game when 500 ci big blocks were banned? That's 2 WoO ci rules for those of you counting at home.

Way too much testosterone is flowing with people that don't matter if you ask me. 360? 410? 430? 550?

Who cares if it's Sammy and Steve and Saldana and Schatz and Sides and man that's a lot of S's out there. WHO CARES? Do you see drivers like that at the Chili Bowl and come away whining about cubic inches? Me neither.

We like competition. We like RACING. If it was half a second slower... WHO CARES??? It isn't about the all-time fastest lap.. .it's about passing and racing. People that want the fastest ever lap must go home after time trials I guess.

ANYTHING that creates car count by reducing costs... I like it and hope that the decision makers look into it. You'll have people on a budget that will complain because they run home-built stuff and won't be able to afford new parts for new rules. So be it. It happens. In a year, when everyone has run the stuff for R&D... those same people will be able to buy used parts & will be right back in the game. Almost like a cycle... huh?

Kudos to people that think outside the box and aren't stuck in the "that's the way we've always done it" rut. Times change and we evolve or we disappear.

If I were in that race running a 410 and was passed by a Corvette powered sprint car I would want them to keep the money and would be too embarassed to complain or even talk about it. Donnie is WAY beyond needing to help try to slove any sprint cost issues and deserves credit for taking the time to help out. Being too picky is a massive understatement.

I sure hope this idea works out, just as long as they don't put a flywheel on it then forget it.

The ball is in the racers and fans court. The Schatz's and Ron Shaver have done the "foot work" to show everyone that engines can be built "on the cheap" to help bring the cars back and run competitively. Less than 10 years ago, the 410's were putting out these same numbers and the price wasn't a whole lot less than what we see now.

This is a no brainer people, but until the powers that be wake up and listen to the owners and the fans, this will fall by the wayside.

From someone who was at this presentation, I can tell you that the manufacturers of the “bolt on” parts and a couple of engine builders were VERY much against this engine, saying it will only bring “instability” to the sport. If you were to hear their side, it is the beginning of the end of sprint car racing. They were firmly in the belief that everything in “big time” sprint car racing is just fine, it’s just the economy that is making teams sell out.

I have seen/heard the argument that a person can go buy an old -12 engine and run it for close to the same price, but that engine is 10 years old and has been thrashed, no matter how “fresh” it is, the block and heads have still been ran hard over the years and you will still be spending $5k to $8k to re-fresh it every 10 to 14 nights (for the budget racers). It just doesn’t make sense when you can buy a brand new engine for $20k and freshen it at a cost of $2500 to $3000 per YEAR (25 to 30 nights) with the same "numbers".

My suggestion is for every car owner, driver and fan who thinks that this engine is a good idea, to either write an email, pick up the phone, or personally talk to your track owners, promoters, sanction leaders and competition directors to let them know that you support this engine and everything it stands for.