Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Just wanted to get other people's opinions...what is the best brake setups on the market for Dirt Sprint cars? Inboard and LF?

Depends on how much you want to spend... Any brake setup can and will work very well if assembled and properly maintained and well bled out. The lighter you go the more you will spend of course. I have seen two high dollar brakeman calipers break for no reason at all, I run some old wilwood stuff mainly and it seems to work as well as anything else it appears. I broke the ears off the caliper one night stopping for a crash so it obviously was stopping pretty well.

44H.

Do some research and ask around there is alot of variables when talking brakes and how to maintain them, etc...

www.44hmichaelharris.com

good post, recently, I believe Flattout had a article on some brake items, much to my surprize, Rahmer uses a heavy .810 LR rotor? I would assume tayloring a brake settup to your most comon track run weekly ect would be best, like someone said before, lighter costs more, I personally would liked to have purchased the Red Devil titaium settup with the light floating caliper for the LR,(we all know what that is worth) so I opted to build my own kit with various pieces, and came up with a settup that is a fraction of the cost (midwieght)as well, I utilize a Ben Cook Titamium rotor with the Krietz four piston (series 9000?) standard LR caliper,and a floating mount to the axle (new should be used) these wear out over time and wobble the pads into the caliper causeing you to pump to get a firm pedal again, of course we use pad shims with the 3/8 rotor ,once the pads were bedded the stopping power was above satisfactory and not too wild for the wallet, Now on the front, (after reading the article) Im going to try a brakeman steel front rotor , we utilize a aluminum type currently and would like to see if the "false" (late to draw) pedal feel is because of the aluminum rotor, the cost is respectable, and worth a try, Ive also thought about a 1" master cylinder (anybody have any testimony) I would just like a more firm pedal earlier in the throw, This topic, no driver should have a problem discussing , no hidden secrets should be kept, this (good brakes)just might save your car , looking at most cars, everybody seems to run something different ?, untill you talk to a driver ,certain points would be usefull to know about products you havent used yet, JMO

Most of the full sprints I have owned or driven have really lacked in the braking department. I too am curious as to what is the best system that won't break the bank. I have tried different master cylinder diameters, brake line sizing, rotors (design and thickness) and calipers. Open for suggestions because I really have no sense of security when it comes to applying the brakes in a crisis. The only thing that has saved my butt over the years is my flattrack bike experience where we raced with NO BRAKES!

its kind of a preference thing, like alot of things on sprint cars. i would suggest Red Devil brakes. however they are much more expensive than most of the other brands. but they definitely work better. not only do they stop the car, when you have to use the brakes to stick the bottom or get the car through the corner they are exceptional. standard Wilwood brakes work good as well, and they are much cheaper. there are plenty of options depending on much money you want to spend

Obviously I am some sort of wimp pushing on the brake pedal. ?? I have two cars both with Wilwood brakes. One, the older setup that I went back to that has the 810 vented rotor and 3/4 master cylinder and the other is the Lite unit with the same sized master cylinder but has the 1/2 inch scalloped rotor. Neither has brakes that are worth calling home to brag about.

Guess it's "Hello gym, can you help me with my wimpy a$$ed leg?"

Or maybe I should try Speedway bikes.....they still don't run brakes?

The grand prix bikes they use to air on speed, do they have brakes? I miss them, I wish they would air them instead of 2000 episodes of pinks, Openwheel- I too have limped around for two days after running a low groove on a shutdown type track, my leg was killing me! its funney the torture you can put your body through while driving without even knowing the trouble, I have yet to stomp on a set of Red Devils but imagine there would be a difference, I noticed Kinser runs a 7lb residule valve(red wilwood) will this help shorten my late throw to pressurize the caliper? OW the larger master cylinder was no positive responce to the problem?

All (or Most) of the big boys run the Red Devil brakes all the way around. They are light and work really well, they have ti rotors, special pads and all lightweight hardware. There are some teams that run the Wilwood, Brakeman, Ben Cook, Kreitz and hell I even have some old JFZ stuff, but the best is Red Devil, hands down.

For every 1 pound of rotation weight you save is like gaing 5 horsepower.

The older I get, the faster I used to be.

Hey dirt, I use a 2 pound residual valve, it keeps about 2 lbs of pressure in the line so you don't have to "pump" the brakes. If set up correctly they will not drag, much.

The older I get, the faster I used to be.

I did forget to add that I do utilize one of the high output square 1" master cyclinders and I must admit that the brake pedal feel was improved, I also run a blue residual valve as well.

44H

yes, I have the 2lb valve in line, but, still havent achived the pedal feel I am looking for, we achieved a "decent" pedal upon a (friend and I) adjusting more throw in the pedal ,(system has been bleed 1000 times both vacume and pressure style,) but, I was curious if stepping up to the 1" bore would speed things up (fluid wise). man, theres alot of products out there for braking systems, I have noticed most WoO teams have a floating ,wide (.810) ,small diameter ,lightwieght rotor , with Willwood or Devil caliper, the wider vented rotor must cool better? definetly not the old cast .810 deal, A guy is proubly just best to bite the bullet and purchase the Red Devil stuff, I have a system that works, but, like stated earlier, not worth bettn the wife on, (well?? ask me tommarow on that one? LOL ) anybody else run a 1" master with the 7lb valve ?

lol, funny. I noticed that my peddle was a little soft also and used a brake line(or vise grip genlty)clamp on the lf brake hose and peddle felt better. I then put the lf caliper above the master (put a spare rotor between pads)and bled it that away, much better. My pedal only moves about 1 inch before it stops.

The older I get, the faster I used to be.

Here's a few tips that might help. 1.) Don't pump the brake pedal when you bleed the brakes. It just sucks air back in the line. 2.) Go to the hardware store and get some small plastic tubing to put on the bleeder. 3.) Put the other end in a jar of brake fluid partially filled. 4.) Remove the cap from the Master Cylinder before bleeding. 5.)Push the fluid through by a.) opening the bleeder. b.) pushing the pedal down. c.) close the bleeder. You will be amazed by the air bubbles in the line. Start at the caliper the greatest distance from the master cylinder. Repeat until all air is gone.

Take a rubber mallet and tap the calipers to free up any air bubbles trapped. Repeat the bleeding process one more time.

Don't forget to look at your brake pedal geometry. Different brake pedals have different pickup points. I prefer J & J's brake pedal geometry.

Change your brake fluid frequently. It gets hotter than your motor oil and you probably change that every week.

Check for bent or warped rotors, loose front hubs and bad spindles.

Caliper flex is also not condusive to a firm pedal.

Make sure you are using as much steel tubing as possible. Especially right out of the Master Cylinder. I use to use a braided line there. Once I changed it all to solid steel my pedal was much firmer. The braided steel line was bulging.

Hope that helps.

Remember, you are not alone. Every racer I have ever met has had some kind of brake problems along the way. Usually its something simple and stupid that is easily overlooked.....like a loose left front hub or too light of an inboard caliper. If you can see it flexing sitting in the shop when it is cold.....think how much it flexes when it is hot!

MB

Rome wasn't built in a day......but they sure didn't
waste any time burning it down!

Great discussion everyone! Mark, thanks for the tips!

racers should print a copy of this post to help diagnoses brake proplems...also a brake pedal is not a foot rest-rest you foot on a heel-riser so you don't inadvertently push the brakes...thanks MB

A "brake expert" informed me to get a pedal that requires less effort, go to a smaller master cylinder. However, that arrangement will require more pedal travel. I agreed from what I know about hydraulics. I will admit it helped by going to the 3/4 inch master cylinder and my pedal travel didn't increase that much. 1 inch master will increase speed of application but have less power at the pads so theoritically won't stop as easily. I've always had a "good" pedal, just not enough stopping power.

I have gotten to the point I change the high temp fluid every race now just to make sure I haven't boiled the stuff and caused spongy brakes.

Let alone the weight improvement, do titanium rotors have better stopping power coupled with the correct brake pads? Also, what are the best pads to use with a steel rotor. I will admit that my system utilizing the 1/2 inch scalloped rotor seems slightly better than the 810 vented unit. I have tried different master cylinder makes and have seen no improvement other than when I changed to a smaller diameter.

I think we all realize it's about standing on gas but in those "situations" it would be nice to have a little more confidence you can slow the car rather than always having an "escape route" in mind like I always had when I flattracked with no brakes. This is about being comfortable in the car, let alone confidence.

Really appreciate all the comments and suggestions.

Yep, the GP Speedway bikes they show are one gear, on alky and no brakes. That and flattracking without brakes is/was the best racing around. Wish I hadn't gotten old and fat and could still do it.

I have noticed we can get more bubblesand better pedal from bleeding again after the engine has ran, my theory is the vibration shakes loose the air trapped on the walls of the system, open a Diet Coke youll get what I mean, just observation and proubly something most of us have found out, for the beginner, dont panic immediatly after first bleeding, warm the engine once and go back to bleeding the system again, just a thought, seems to make a bit of a differance to me? thanks for the ideas guys