Forum: Racing From The Past (go)
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After looking at the photos I took of those NCRA supers back in the early 80s, I got wondering...what killed the 100 inch super class?

Between Oklahoma, Kansas and Texas there were at least a couple hundred of them up until the mid 80s. Was the World of Outlaws and the huge growth in the popularity of sprint cars during that era?

Being from the upper midwest I always saw the stories in National Speed Sport about the NCRA shows and big super races like at the fair in Hutchinson.

Just wondering...

Lee Johnson

I know the 100" cars ran on the 1/4 mile and Lawton and Meeker till the late 90's they were called Wingless Modifieds then and they simply died because frames were no longer being built and the frames that were being run were aging and some as much as 15 or so yrs. old and also the 86" frame was then the new ticket.

Better yet a question and I have asked several people and still wonder just what happened to the NCRA organization , it was the BIG thing around here in the 70's and up to the mid 80's, BIG Crowds and BIG car counts and it always seemed to be an event when an NCRA was held and then it seemed when the Champ Dirt Cars went away then the NCRA just kind of faded out and even the Hutch Nat. did not ever seem the same again , heck I always wondered why did it lose it luster.

Heck I thought when Chattanooga Chew was the title sponsor back in the mid 80's that NCRA might just be an organization that might do bigger things such as the Outlaws were doing but not to be , guess it boils down to what people have told me before as well as I have seen in the past 20 yrs. that promoters NO longer work together , it is now a me/I world and that is not good for todays racing but it is how it is today.

I know that in 1987 a used 100" Champ Dirt car could go for around $7,500 as a roller if it was 1 yr old.

That's somewhere over $13k in todays dollars.

A used sprinter of the same condition will bring maybe about half that actual value in either decade.

The idea was to go to the big-time with a more affordable, and streamlined feeder system that helped everybody up and down the food chain. That was supposed to mean more cars. It helped that end of it, but after 20 years we miss the old cars now.

Depended on what Pieces the Sprint Car had on it to determine it's value and what it sold for back then and kind of still does today , but not as much, because like Brian has said , cookie cutter/mass production is making parts cheaper and more available now than ever, Heck you can buy a direct mount front end for about half of what you could say back in the late 80's/early 90's.

By that comparison I meant like say if it was a standard Challenger chassis that was run one full season, then sold at the end of the year.

I know that '92 I couldn't find a set of k/o hubs for less than $300. Thanks to oversaturation of the market with the newer sprint car pieces, the vintage stuff has been cheap the last ten years.

....wings and sprint tails killed the supers...

Out here on the west coast, the supers had something closer to a 90" wheelbase, but they were strong for a long time on Northern California. The costs drove the class to adopt rules which allowed sprint chassis with 2x4 sections welded in...That was the beginning of the end of a GREAT class. Next came sprint car tails, then it was over- The class morphed into 360 sprints and lost all its fascination for me.

Sadly, the last dirt supermodified class I am aware of, which was in eastern Wisconsin, dies out after the 2007 season. I am bummed! I really love what you all do to keep the class alive through restorations and shows. Keep up the good work!

You are right but i also think that IMCA Mods had something to do with that also. Back in 1958 59 60 some of the Super Mods were built like IMCA Mods on Ford frames.Then they got faster and streamlined throught the 60s.Then in the late 60s Edmonds and Nance started producing the frames like you seen being built in Tulsa and Witchita and Kc and in Kansas,,,so you didnt have to build one from scratch.Edmonds and Nance had alot to do with the growth of the Super Mods ,,,there were other ones that built them to . If the Super Mods of this type started today they might be as good.But Racing was not in the growth spert it has been in in the last 15 years.

Then in the late 70s IMCA mods started to pop up just like the Sprints with wings.Now IMCA Mods are built ready to go,,roller chasey just like the sprints.When a car or a class is built were you can go buy one and be competative with out having to build it from scratch,,the class will grow much faster. IMCA MODs grow was helped also by the Full Body guys that wanted to go open wheel ,they could use alot of the parts and some of the set up stuff ,because the IMCA MODS were built on 1964 Chevelle frames,like alot of the full bodys were. The average guy could not put togther a Super Mod as easy as a car built partly on a car frame like a 64 or 72 chevy frame.He could understand it better.Look at the guys on here asking advice on how to put the 70s Supers together..To build a fast Super Mod you had to learn it from someone not go buy it ready to race like the Sprints and IMCA MODs and Late Models of today.Super MODS were the time of the great builders.

Anytime frames are built were you can get one and just put it together,it makes it easyer for people to race. There isnt to many guys around like Luther Brewer ,or Al Weiland,or Howerton anymore just to name a few..

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

Maybe,

But the building of supermods(long wheelbase sprint cars) would have evolved along with the times.

I have a friend that owns and BUILDS both. He says the supers would be a lot easier to build. The old IMCA formula was to go back to the junkyards and bring out the next jalopy for the 70's and 80's. I have seen the first IMCA modified, and it sure was a junkyard build. These days those cars are really nothing like what they really started out to be. Even the first IMCA modified had a straight front axle from what I remember.

Those finished frames do not build themselves, there are people that need to eat and thus they build to suit the times. By open wheel here, we mean that the driver is ABOVE the driveline and BEHIND the engine, and a straight front axle or anything that competed in that class.

---------------From a good source:Maxim chassis has a deal where their tubing comes pre-bent and pre-notched(CNC, i guess) before it even leaves their tubing supplier. XXX Sprint car frames are coming from China pre-bent and tack welded together ready to go on the jig table.They are designed to be stacked in such a way to maximize use of space inside of the shipping container and still come out ready to be built. Supermodifieds would have evolved with those times. Should my source be wrong, we all know it is very possible these days and bulk manufacturing is cheaper in the long run. With CNC possibilities, a supermodified layout would be very easy, just click on the program, send it to the builder, they weld on the jig table and it's done. This process eliminates at least one or two shophands compared to the old days.

The advice we ask here is about the many different approaches taken to build a car back in those days. We're really talking oranges and apples in many ways here. The evolution rate was at high speed then, now the cars change slowly. For the most part, the last 30 years have been a refinement phase. The cost is that everything looks alike now to most people, and it is charge card ready.

It's like comparing a Gullwing to a chopper that 'dives in and finds the monkey'(cool, bad to the bone in it's own way). Supermodifieds were never guilty of looking like everybody else. They might have been likewise in groups, but not for 30 years.

Got the money? You can get a brand new Kurtis Kraft continuance midget, aluminum body and all for under the price of a decked out IMCA modified. In ten years, that midget is not going to be irrelevant.

Your write,what i was trying to say was .about the time the supers quit around here they were not got very easy.,like a IMCA mod would be today ,and it was easyer for someone that didnt know alot about racing to start with a IMCA mod ,it would be harder to start with a super mod.A regular ol guy could not figure it out without help.If they made the super frames then like they do today,they might have had a chance.

I have won features in 3 classes, Sprints Amods and Bmods people become more competetive faster in a Imca mod,,,than they do in a none frame cars. the general understanding i think has something to do with it

is half street car in the frame..Also the class they ran at Tulsa in the mid to late 60s with the 305 limit had alot to do with the success of SuperMods at Tulsa.It put all the best in the best class ,it made for some great races. Engine limit like they have with the Sprint classes helps keep them under control.Most of the classes anymore are so out of control.

The Amods are running 430 plus motors now. The new Bmod class is growing very fast in the Missouri area. It has a 360 limit. it gives the average joe a chance to run and be able to not look to bad if he aint fast..

Living in Missouri makes it hard to run a Midget,if they had them here i would probably have been running one of them,but the travel is a problem. I run what i run here because it is what they run here. But my heart is with the old 60s and 70s Supers ,.I spent 3 winters in Al Weilands garage watching him build Super Mods in 1961 63 and 68.You would not believe some of the stuff he turned into a race car.

On thing that made Luther so good was if he was getting beat he could look at the car that was beating him, and when he figured it out , it was on his car better than the one that was beating him..He would make whatever it was better.Al and Luther both should write books on this stuff.

Most of the guys that race forget more than they ever learned.. Al and Luther never forgot anything,they can still do it today ,they remember it because they truly love it.

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.