Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Wesmar I have read on here about $15,000 to $30,000 for a brand new hard hitting 360. You folks seem to build one of the best out there. How much for a new 360 motor? Also I have read here where it costs $3500 to freshen a 360. How much do you charge normally? Thanks.

Rather than discuss business on the board, why not try email.....

http://www.wesmarracing.com/contacting.htm

Chuck.....

"Wesmar I have read on here about $15,000 to $30,000 for a brand new hard hitting 360. You folks seem to build one of the best out there. How much for a new 360 motor? Also I have read here where it costs $3500 to freshen a 360. How much do you charge normally? Thanks."

I would guess Ronnie could build you a hard hitting 360 for about 35,000 dollars. I bet it's closer

to 40,000 dollars.

And I would bet when all is said and done it would be more like 4500 dollars to 6000 dollars,

to refreshen a motor.

I do know you call Ron Shaver and he would tell you how much it costs. I inquired a few years

back but I don't remember the price, but I want to say about 32,000 dollars to 36,000 dollars.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani

P.S. If you can't afford that he recommended buying one of "his" old motors and let him refreshen

it for you. Could save you a few dollars.

Why,is it some kind of a secret?

Sprintfan0, our new ASCS engines are $38,000. Does not include air filters or headers.

Re-builds usually average about $5,000, most customers freshen after about 18-22 shows

Gee, a new ASCS 360 for $38K + filters + header...plus shipping, of course....... so other than the rebuilds occurring less frequently, where is the real savings vs. a 410???

So the 360 vs 410 discussion continues........

Chuck.....

Kelly... the most important question in sprint car racing today...

What wil be the price of a 360 in 3 years if all the WOO teams started racing them weekly ?

With the 410's now spinning over 9000rpm??? Horse power will come from more RPM's in the 360's.. lighter valve trains etc...

More RPM's..more cost..more frequent rebuilds....

What is stopping the 360's heading the same way ?? Injector stack size ??

Cobra, good question about price, not sure. The only thing that is driving the price up is the cost of materials to build them.

We along with other engine builders I'm sure are getting stuff in the mail or at the very least calls from our vendors telling us that their prices are going up anywheres from 2-5 percent due to the cost of steel and aluminum. Therefore we adjust our prices as well.

The 9000 rpm deal is more myth than fact, even if they are turning that I'm not sure why that is because 99% of the time an engine be it a 410 or 360 your horsepower starts declining around the 7800-8000 rpm mark........... at least on the dyno that is.

I really feel were pretty maxed out on the 360 deal, BUT as soon as you or I say that something else pops up to make it better..................lol. With that being said we are always r&ding ourselves to try to stay a step ahead.

Say the 410's are racing in your area,and you want to run your 360 with them-is there much performance gain in putting 2 7/16ths stacks on your injection? and how different would you have to pill it with the larger stacks?

The fact you guys are missing is what it costs to be competitive in ASCS 360 racing. You do not need a 38k motor to be competitive. I know of many 10-15k ASCS motors that run up front and win races. The key difference to 410 racing is the cost to be competitive. You won't find any 15k 410's running with the outlaws.

If someone wants to spend 38k for a new motor thats fine but it is not neccessary.

dirtybeer, there is no difference in performance gain or loss.

What about gas milege? I know fuel prices are down but whats the difference in mpg's between a 360 and a 410? If I was going racing at Wilmot next year I would have a Prius motor with a turbo and a bottle strapped to it. Just an idea for savings.

Really,I'm surprised-I thought you might be able to gain a few horses with the bigger stacks-are the heads already getting all the air they can handle,or is the air intake difference so minimal it doesn't matter?

i have been told that performance can actually be better with restictors in the stacks (down to 2 3/16) with our open 360. the motor is only going to pull in so much air but if you can increase the airspeed in the intake runner along with fuel atomization you can get more performance. i asked the same question to our motor builder as far as removing restictors and rejetting and was told it was better to leave them in.

Thats great i got dq'ed out of a win for not having restrictors in my stacks. Rookie mistake we threw the 305 stacks on the 360 and never even looked for the restrictors.

B I N G O !!!!!!!!!!!

i would imagine the majority do NOT go that route with the 38k. o sure prob your Jason Johnsons, Wrights, and a couple from each region do ------ but most do not. and they are still competitive.

although the gap that was once close i think is widening. yeah guys with a 15k motor can beat guys with a 35k ------ but like i said - that difference is getting more noticeable each year. just like in the 410's.

its not secret. all things considered, if you live outside of OH and PA - its prob better to run a 360. but eventually there will be the same issues with the 360's that there are right now with the 410's. i think 360 racing nationwide is very predominant over 410 - to everyone and everything except those who hold the same archaic logic of decades gone by. BUT - ascs car counts aint exactly increasing. sure i seen the #'s they averaged at their Nat. tour shows. but those arent true numbers. that was factoring in nig nationals races like East Bay, Devils Bowl, Knoxville 360's, and STN. furthermore - all races they held in conjunction with Winged Outlaw Warriors in Missouri helped car counts a great deal.

but thruthfully, look at the individual races in Oklahoma and Texas. near 20 give or take a few. and some regions have been wayyy down too. northern plains, midwest, sooner, - and as for the sooner - i think it was more scheduling conflicts than anything. when runnin cowtown not many OK guys would go. when running tulsa area - not many DFW guys would go. that was the single big difference i saw this year for the sooner region. years past - it was different. but it also made an impact as well - scheduling. NCRA, ASCS Sooner, and OCRS could all run just a dozen races a year - and they would still find a way for all of them to be run on the same nights.

i thought one word to sum up sprint car racing in the state of oklahoma in 2008. diluted. the regional sprint scene aint in real bad shape. but it could be even better if all these series worked together not against eac other - even if just some of the time...

its great to see ascs doin big things with the national tour. but it doesnt mean all that much to me - i'll see em in the spring nat's here - and then once more in speedweek. what i want to know/see is what they will do to help the regions. namely here - the sooner region. 1500 to win 150 to start isnt that strong. ncra ran significantly more to start and their races benefitted from it greatly - and they have considerably less 360's in kansas than we do in oklahoma. and they have to run against 305's that are pretty big up there in kansas. i hope sooner region does something. ups the ante or something. it was always one of ascs best regions.

one region that did suprisingly well was the Rocky Mountain region. gas prices be damned and all! their northern rockies guys were making treks down to new mexico - almost knowing herrara was gonna win. and still their NM guys made all the treks up north to Wyoming. that region did really really well. which is great for that region and its fans. they dont exactly get to see a high volume of sprint car racing.

i'm a huge fan of ascs. and i think they will remedy what is probably just small problems. they've been good at it in the past. hope 2009 is a great big ol' banner year for not just the ASCoT - but for their regions as well (especially the sooner lol)

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

not saying that a lower cost motor can not run with a higher cost motor so just making that clear. what i am asking is, for those that may know, where are low cost 360's out living and out running higher cost motors on a regular basis? just the parts to put together a good brand new motor are expensive.

It's way more expensive to run a 410 competitively at big race tracks. They need twice as many rebuilds and they are constantly evolving so you need to keep updating engines every couple of years. Running 60 shows a year for 5 years (300 races), the two $35k 360s you just bought will still be winning races with minimal upgrade. 300 races / 20 races per rebuild x $5k per rebuild = $75k in rebuilds plus your initial $70k for your two motors, so you would have spent $150k to go racing for 5 years.

With a 410 you might as well kiss your initial investment goodbye, so tack on the cost of two or three new motors altogether, which would be an extra $100,000. Plus they need rebuilt twice as much as a 360 and the rebuilds cost more as well so tack on another $100,000 yet again.

Running a 410 team competitively at a big track is way more expensive. On a small track or at a slick track it's another story altogether however. If you can run up front on a budget, the 410s still pay twice as much in a lot of places. The 410s are still the better deal at a lot of joints, plus they are what the fans come to see.

A little less tire would still go an awful long way however...

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Over here in OH and MI, the 360 purses for SOD and the NRA are almost identical to Attica and Fremont if you wipe off the winners share. In other words, if we run 7th in an NRA of SOD race, we mad as much as if we ran 8th with the 410's at Attica or Fremont. Is that so bad?? By the way, all 14 of the ASCS regions pay the same as SOD and the NRA.

410's do not pay twice as much in a lot of places. You take away Knoxville and the Grove/Lincoln area and the 410 and 360 purses aren't that much different, especially when considering the cost.

Anybody know what the 410's are racing for @ Sharon, Lernerville, Butler MI, Lakeville OH, Skyline OH, Skagit WA?

When people refer to purses, they seem to forget what the MAJORITY of 410 tracks pay, and #'s they come up with only apply to the Grove and Knoxville.

However, I agree with almost everything Cubic said, especially the tire comment.

I run in urc 360 they pay 2,000 to win and 200 to start. For 410's at lincoln its 3,000 to win but i dont know how much to start. So not a big difference when you compare how much a 410 cost. A person in a 360 atleast has a chance to break even for the night, that is for a low budget team.