Forum: Oklahomatidbits.com General Forum (go)
Moderators:  /  David Smith Jr

This is something I've been thinking about for awhile and thought I'd post my question and see what kind of discussion we can get going on it.

Are we only as good as our competition?

I've hear it said that traveling to different tracks and racing against other groups of drivers can sharpen your skills and you can learn new driving techniques as opposed to just staying at the same track every week and racing same drivers.... every week. At every track there are stand-outs that win races and championships. But how good are they?

I remember my rookie racing season at Skagit Speedway in Washington state, the late Fred Brownfield won the 410 sprint championship without the benefit of a feature win during the year. The next year, he won a feature, but not the championship.

The following year, Fred went on the road with the World of Outlaws.

When Fred returned to Skagit Speedway, it was like he had a turbo and everyone else was running a 360. Was there less competition? Or did Fred improve that much by racing with higher caliber drivers?

Two weeks ago, a young driver named Logan Cabbell and his father drove out from Amarillo to "hit a few different tracks". He ran SFS on Friday but didn't make it out of the B. The next night, he went to BMS and won his heat AND the feature. He went back to SFS on Sunday and won his heat AND the feature against the best SFS had to offer.

Is this driver that good? Or are we only as good as who we race against?

It's not HOW fast you go, but how you GO fast.

www.myspace.com/bucky65c

That's a very debatable question.

I would have to say yes, for the simple fact that each driver has different techniques, moves, ect. and over time running with the same people, you learn their ways and pick up habits, ect. and know how to get around or out maneuver them. Just think when you have a rookie join you that's trying to get a feel for the car. You probably hang back a few laps watching them to figure out what grooves they seem partial too, then make your move to get around.

You learn something new every day!

Christina
Air Max HVAC Systems

I am a firm beliver in traveling I really think it does make you a better driver , because every track is different and many aspects . What works for you at one track may be totally different at another , I think it teaches you to better adapt to all the different conditions

winners dont cry when they lose , they go back to the 
drawing board and come back for round 2 !

Not to take away from your point but he did start on the front row. And he did a good job

Ted Sanderson

There is no doubt about it. You learn from other drivers by racing with them and following them. You still see that at high levels of racing, even in cup racing. A driver passes you on top and you suddenly move to the top and follow a couple of laps then take that spot back because you learned something. I know that aint the question but just another example. I've seen top drivers come over from Tulsa and can't hit it at all at SFS. Traveling is great experience. Some of that winning at a track that is new to you is luck also. But you still have to be good to win.

The mod driver from Amarillo started up front in the Sunday feature at SFS. Kudos to him for staying there, but the hot shoes were dealing with traffic and a track that had slicked off some. Had the SFS points leaders started in close proximity to the newbie, they would have dusted him. We can't learn anything from his results. I am guessing he developed a point average by running the Friday night race at SFS and then got the front row because of that on Sunday -- kudos to him for being that crafty, but not so much for having anything at all over the regular shoes at the track.

"I'd pay $15 to watch a sprint car sit still."

Come on guys. Kelly Shryock starts up front in most USMTS races... does that mean he isn't one of the best? Only someone who was ignorant of his abilities behind the wheel of a race car or a fool would answer yes to that question.

Logan Cabbell put on a heck of a show! Sure he started up front.... but he fought off several attempts from several different drivers who tried to take the lead. He fought them off tooth and nail and he earned that victory! It wasn't given to him. Sure its more impressive to come from the back... but given the guys limited experience, on a track that appears to be difficult for many "new comers," I'd say he did a heck of job!

How many guys run the SFS every week and start up front every race, yet still don't have a win? How many local guys pull off two A-main wins at two different tracks in the same weekend? Not many. That's quite a feat for anyone... let alone someone who is not local and mostly unfamilar with the tracks.

As for the question at hand... from what I've seen I'd say yes. I believe that a driver is only as good as his competition. Running different tracks, and running with the tougher competition will only sharpen one's skills behind the wheel of a race car.

Bucky was talking about how much better Fred Brownfield was after he toured with the WoO for a while. While I obviously don't know for sure and didn't see it.... I'd imagine his improvement came from running different tracks and running with tougher competition. I also think it was probably due to another factor that I haven't seen mentioned yet... seat time! Traveling with a series that has an extensive schedule will certainly give you a lot more seat time than a driver would get only running locally. Racing 3-5 times a week... as opposed to 1 or 2 times a week, That's double the amount of seat time in a week.

Another example is the Woodward boys (Weder, Ramirez, Kenny, Rowland). Look how much they have improved in a fairly short amount of time of running with the big dogs in the USMTS. Running with tougher competition, running different tracks, and seat time will only sharpen your skills as a driver.

Just my take on things. But what do I know... I'm just a fan. Ha ha.

I like dirt!

I absolutely believe that traveling to numerous tracks and facing new competition will make for a better driver. I am not a driver - but this philosophy is true with most sports. I played traveling softball my entire life - and got better each year as we traveled to bigger tournaments with tougher competition. Chances are I would not have improved as much had I stayed in our little local league. I would think this is true of racing as well. It is my hopes that our son will start next season in a mini sprint and once he gets the feel of it, we will take him to different tracks any time we have the time.

GOD, Family, Dirt Track Racing,  OU Football, and the 
Dallas Cowboys is what we live for:)

Steve Kinser, Jason Johnson, and Gary Wright have also won most of their races from the front row. They must suck!

damn bucky you ran skagit?

give us stories! many of them! i love hearing about tracks from far away - especially one as storied as Skagit (rich sprint car tradition - appeals to a sprint car fanatic like myself lol).

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

Ha ha. Agreed! Those are some more great examples of drivers that frequently start on the front row, in the sprint class, who I think few would argue about their abilities behind the wheel of a racecar.

I like dirt!

You start on the pole and if there is enough race cars, you will enter lapped traffic sooner or later. While there is some "luck" when in lapped traffic, you also have to be aware of what lines on the track the drivers in front of you are running. A really good driver can do that.

I have been told by several drivers that being on the road was the best thing to ever happen to them, experience wise. You can in no way list each and every driver that has left their weekly track and was "fast" and good but went out to different tracks full-time and it made them a better driver. There are those who have been out on the road but still don't get it but there are those whose ability speaks for itself.

David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

As for those who travel but still don't get it... you can put lipstick on a pig... OH WAIT... I think that line has been used recently....

Nevermind... don't want this thread to turn into a politcal debate. Ha ha.

I like dirt!

So are you referring me to that of a pig? oink oink

David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

Suu-wee..... Ha ha.

I like dirt!

I ain't from Lawton.

David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

I think it would definitely make you a better driver. I mean, go run with the ASCS national guys for a year, then come back and run weekly shows. Your mind set would be totally different. You would have a more competitive attitude and almost like a notch higher mentality than what you had before.

Its like in golf, if I played with a bunch of guys that couldn't break 100 everyday, I would lose my edge. But when you play with guys that are on mini tours trying to make a living everyday, you learn things and get better. Why doesn't Stanley Reed travel more often? I think he would give Timms a run for his money sometimes. Maybe he does travel I just don't really keep up with those cars enough to notice maybe.

If your budget allows it, TRAVEL!! Plus anymore, winning at SFS is like saying, "I didn't get screwd by the midget as much as other guys so at the end I came out ahead". Almost.

"They're steering them sum bi***es with their right 
foot!"

winning at SFS is like saying, "I didn't get screwd by the midget as much as other guys so at the end I came out ahead". Almost.

That right there folks is probably the best line posted on here in quite a while. Good stuff.

You beat me to it Brandon anyone who thinks you dont earn it from the front row is crazy. You still have to hold of the guys that challenge you for the lead. All good drivers have won from the front row but yea those guys must suck.

Then I guess starting position doesn't matter much. Point is, you put a decent driver with decent equipment on the front row and he's going to probably finish near the top. It's no indication, based on one night at the track, that he's got the locals covered. The initial point that was raised about traveling around is a good one. It's just that the mod driver from Amarillo was not a good example.

"I'd pay $15 to watch a sprint car sit still."