Forum: Minnesota Dirt Track Racing Forum (go)
Moderators: StanM

steiny - you are a pain-in-the-ass. LOL But you said it first

This deal is not just for Cedar Lake, We are going to make this work and we are going to other tracks in the area. The purse we have is very affordable for the promoters in the area with the economy the way it is. So don't just think it's just a Cedar Lake deal. We have plans to put together some 2 day shows and race at other tracks within our region.

O, by the way,

I am in support of this deal in any form it takes to get new drivers and car owners out there.

I am a former car owner, promoter, official, and prankster (if you can't have fun, don't do it)

I have help out at every sprintcar show around this area for along time in some way or another,

Traveled many miles down the road to support sprintcar racing. But like Stan, I'm tired of the traveling it takes to go see sprintcars.

Chuck Priefer

In the immortal word of Pee Wee Hermann, "I know you are but what am I?"

Two peas in a pod, ain't we?

Hi,

I normally don't get involved in internet arguments but I feel the need to say what I think about this idea. My name is Chad Patterson and I race a Midwest Mod at CLS. I am 23 years old and have been a dirt track fan my whole life. But my love is sprint car racing. I grew up watching the WISSOTA championship 360 sprint cars race at RRVS in the 90s. I don’t remember them ever getting a ton of cars but I do remember plenty of awesome races that made me a fan for life. I always wanted to drive one but the older I got the more I realized that unless I win the lottery I won’t because of the cost to field a car. I wanted to race so bad that I decided to run a Midwest Mod to get my driving fix. My dad and I own the car together. He is the crew chief and I am the driver. We share the work load and expense. We are a low budget team because we are working class people who just enjoy racing without spending $20,000+ a year racing.

As I said earlier I want love to race sprint cars. But under the current situation in our area I cannot. Most people I know cannot afford to spend $20,000+ on an engine plus all the other stuff. Not only that I would have to travel to Jackson which is 2 ½ hours away. My travel cost for the year would be outrageous and just not feasible. When I am ready to move up a class in this area my options basically are two classes: late models & modifieds. If you are familiar with CLS you know the quality of cars is the best anywhere. Even if you have the money it takes to run a fulltime late model or mod you still need years of experience to learn how to drive and set up your car as well as the winners there. A modified driver told me once that he spent $15,000 on an engine. You can look in the All the Dirt and see how much late models motors cost. The point I am making is it costs a lot of money and years of experience to run well in those divisions at CLS and other tracks in the area.

When I heard this idea of running a limited sprint car that could cost $10-15,000 to get an entire car I was really excited. I know how much it costs to operate a Midwest mod and I have heard how much the winners are spending in this class. I have heard guys spending $5-10,000 on a Midwest mod motor. I will not say how much my motor is but I can assure you it is not that kind of money. It is absurd to spend that kind of money on a budget class. I will not spend that much. I would spend that much to buy a sprint car engine. As I said before I cannot afford to spend $20,000 on an engine but I could afford $5,000.

How many people who are questioning this idea are from the Minneapolis area? People have mentioned standardization of rules. Normally I would agree with that but in this case I don’t see the need. This class is focused on brining new people to the sport of sprint car racing. These people would not travel outside of their home track. This is the case for a lot of drivers these days in all classes. Right now in the Minneapolis area sprint car racing is all but dead. Yes, Arlington is an hour southwest of Minneapolis and they do race IMCA sprints. The car counts fluctuate depending on the night. It seems like a good group of people down there. I respect what they do and I hope them the best. But there is not much exposure. Outside of Arlington no one really knows about the track. So again I am not trying to put them down but that has been my experience.

There are many dirt tracks around Minneapolis. Most tracks in the area run a combination of the following classes: late models, mods, supers, Midwest mods, street stocks, hornets, pure stocks. It is boring and there needs to be some variety of classes. Sprint cars would be a great addition to local tracks.

How can you call yourself a sprint car fan and not be excited that people are trying to promote this sport to create more drivers and fans? I spoke with Ron regarding this series earlier this week. If people are interested they should call Ron, Joe, or Chuck and give them ideas on how to make this work and not reasons on why you think it will fail. I called Ron to get an idea what his plan and vision is for this sprint car class. We agreed on most everything. I am not going to write on here what his vision is. If you are interested you should call these guys so I don’t put words in their mouths. But if you wanted to see sprint car racing make a come back in this area you would support them and do what you can to help promote the idea.

One thing that I will pass along is that Ron and other promoters cannot afford to run ASCS shows. The shows like the cars are too expensive. If promoters are breaking even or losing money they will not run these races. Guess what? That is what is going on right now. And if we don’t do something the only sprint races we will see is the occasional outlaw show and IRA show. It has been since 1998 when CLS last ran the sprints on a regular basis. Rather than tear this idea down let’s figure out how we can help get this class on the weekly schedule or at least semi regularly.

Also, this series would help create a market for the upper level teams racing ASCS to sell their equipment to lower level drivers.

I am not sure how many drivers they will get but I know there are guys who would race sprints if they could afford it and this might be the chance and opportunity these guys are looking for. I am not sure if or when I will be able to drive in this series as I said before I don’t own my car by myself. But I do know that I will do my best to find a way to get a car and start racing sprint cars. In the mean time though I will do what I can to help support the idea in other ways.

Some of the points I have made have already been stated but I am tired of reading all of this negative stuff without any ideas to fix the problem. And from what I can tell most of the complainers are not even in the Minneapolis area. I will get off my high horse now but I hope people can work together to make sprint car racing more vibrant in this area.

I am going out to watch the Billy Anderson Memorial tomorrow night at CLS to watch some sprint car racing. I hope the weather cooperates and the racing is good. I hope to see Chuck or Joe so I can share my ideas and ask questions in person. I also would like to thank them for taking their time to put something together for the rest of us to enjoy. I for one applaud their efforts.

Respectfully,

Chad Patterson

Midwest Mod 15x

Chad, this is exactly what we are looking for, guy's to move up in a class and come run what we have been working on for less money. Then later down the road, if they want to update their motors to ASCS, they will have more experience to run with the big dogs. I think everything you said above is correct. Thanks for the imput of this subject. Everyone knows who I am and who Joe is and would be glad to chat with you tonight. Lets hope the rain holds off.

Chad Peterson, I do know where there is a car and motor for under 10k Ask me about it tonight.

This car has never been never been bent at all

You heard it from Chad. I talked to Ron last night at the 100 and Chad summed up the direction this is going in. It's going to take a commitment but they're willing to do that. As far as the sleeved ASCS motors if the class takes off they could be phased out over time. It's going to take some tweaking to level the playing field but right now it's necessary to find a way to include them because that's all there is up here at this time.

One of these days we might be seeing the #15x on a wing and tail tank. Take note of the sponsor decal just forward of the car number. This is one of about 25 cars that GRP helps sponsor. Greg is another one of the long time Sprint Car fans and friends of dirt track racing that would like to help make this thing happen. He's got ulterior motives just like I do. I'm about 35 minutes from the track, GRP is located about 15 minutes from CLS.

Stan Meissner

Pitnotes, whoever you are, My suggestion for you is: if you like ASCS and their rules, by all means go race with them, I do know that one thing sprintcar racing doesn't need is a negative person like you. If anyone does not like what Ron, Joe and myself are doing, don't show up at these races, go to knoxville, jackson or where ever an ASCS race is being run. I think that's pretty simple.

I have been around sprint car racing basicly since the day I was born and i am 48 years old. When I first read about the idea of trying to revive sprint cars around here on a different forum, I was against the idea. But now that i know that the objective is to have a more affordable sprint car class I am very excited about the idea. The first few years of the WISSOTA Sprint car class was great. I always went to CLS excited because you never knew what new cars would show up. But after awhile it was obvious that the class was dwindling due to cost and several other reasons that can probobly can be blamed on CLS (Old Management) & WISSOTA Etc....

Chad's post is exactly how at least 2 more MWM drivers I know feel. They are driving MWM's because that's all they can afford. But if a sprint car class is started that doesn't cost a whole lot more than a MWM they will be driving sprint cars within a couple years. To me that's the best part-NEW BLOOD!

YES! YES! Yes! I am all for it. Jim Langel.

Pitnotes:

Who are you and what is you background in racing and especially in sprint car racing? Where are you located?

You raised interesting points and you write well. If you honestly want to debate (meaning: "a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides" according to Merriam Webster), then post your bonfides and begin responding to the counterpoints to your idea rather than simply reiterating the same mantra.

Why should you post your experience level and location? It would establish your credentials in the field, marking your level of expertise and thus the credence of your ideas.

I infer from your first post that you are or have been involved in promoting races. “Trust me Promoters, we ain't got it all figured out. We need a leader; a pioneer!” If that is the case, you certainly have credentials on one critical aspect of racing. That acknowledged, many of the principles involved have that experience as well. In fact each, individually, has decades of experience.

Promoters only represent one aspect of the issue; the performers and audience perspectives are equally critical. In that regard, most of the principles in this debate also have decades of experience. They have been race fans, without car or track. They have been team owners, mechanics, sponsors, and even drivers. Their credentials, eloquence in writing notwithstanding, are well established and well respected by their peers.

If you would like to debate in earnest, take the podium, please introduce yourself and your qualifications. We will debate points and counter-points with historical fact and experiential insight. Dogma has no relevance. Idealism, while a virtue, is merely a starting point for meaningful, innovative action.

You are expected to explain how, specifically, ASCS rules (not sanctioning) will improve sprint car racing. You will need to address how the rules benefit the Twin Cities area specifically, how they encourage growth in the sport (new fans, team and tracks) both locally and regionally, how those rules maintain that growth over time.

I will address the lessons learned from previous rules standardization efforts. I will illustrate how the cost profile created by the ASCS rules package (and the previously existing and very similar WISSOTA rules package) discourages growth and simultaneously erodes the existing participant base. I will explain how the current levels of competition as well as the current economic environment combine to make unviable certain successful practices of the past.

Ready?

Jimmy Kouba

You can always tell the pioneers....... They're the ones with all the arrows sticking out of their ass.

Hey, what happened to pitnotes last two posts? LOL

Stan Meissner

You might want to try it again without inferring that I'm a dumb *ss. Only my wife and a few other photographers are allowed to make that implication.

Seriously though, the people behind this have made a commitment and it's pretty much a done deal. Basically they're targeting car owners and drivers around the Twin Cities Metro and trying to get some of the local racers to try Sprints. They want to build up a cheaper alternative here on the east side of the Metro similar to what they're doing down at Arlington.

The way I look at it if I don't like something I don't do it but I move on and don't hang around b*tching about it. If you don't like this idea fine, if you drive don't race with them, if you own a Sprint Car don't support it and if you're a fan don't come out to watch them. None of us is indespensible, racing will go on without us. We'd like everyone's support but lord knows we all know that's never going to happen in racing.

Like any promotional effort people are putting money, time and effort into this deal. You don't have to like it or support it but I'd like to keep the discussion positive. If some people stop visting my board on account of that is their decision.

Stan Meissner

Stan, I never called you a dumb*ss! Apparently you mis-read my post. I was referring to Joe's use of the word (flip back a couple of pages)! I realize that I don't have the same posting privileges as Joe and Chuck, so I made an effort to keep my threads clean.

Good luck with your Cedar Lake effort.

Pitnotes, there is no one fairer than Stan M. He wouldn't delete without a reason. JIM L

If anyone thinks that I'm a strict task master on this board there are a lot tougher boards out there. As a matter of fact I just got one of my posts deleted over on the Dave Blaney Nascar board.

One of the regulars over there has been using this signature on all his posts: "This year Tony Stewart will be saying here kitty kitty kitty all year while chasing Dave to the checkered flag!"

So I replied to him and suggested that in view of the season Blaney has had it might not be a bad idea to revise his signature. Just a polite suggestion but they're the most rose colored glasses, overly optomistic bunch I have ever seen on any board. Anything even remotely interpreted as offensive to DB or BDR is removed no questions or appeals allowed. So they deleted my post because in their judgement it was offensive. Hey, we all know that Tony Stewart is in the chase and Dave is barely hanging in there with a top 35 in owners points. The guy is making himself look foolish by saying Dave will be chasing Tony and I told him that in a polite way but they zapped my post.

So this board isn't so bad compared to some of them. Why would I even be on there if I didn't like DB?

Stan Meissner

No one has mentiond tracks yet, so... Kopellah, Cedar Lake, Superior, maybe Ashland as they hosted the Wissota 360s, maybe Princeton, Proctor maybe, Fox Ridge rebirthed, Brainerd, Monster Hall...

I liked the idea of last years Masters, as the 360 night was a nice warm-up for the IRA weekend.

This thread has strengthened the fact the there are many fans, owners, drivers and promoters willing to devote time/energy/money, to sport we all love - sprint car racing.

Just another thing to throw out there. I've been following this post and it seems to be quite a hot topic. I am not familiar with racing in Eastern Wisconsin or CLS for that matter so I'm not sure if this would even work. They should look into running IMCA sprints up there. IMCA seems to be one of the most affordable sprint sanctioning bodies in the country. 305's might be an option, but then you start to limit yourself to where you can race without traveling far. At least with a 360 IMCA sprint you can run with other 360 sanctioning bodies every once and a while and be somewhat competitive. I've heard that most IMCA sprint drivers spend between $4,000 and $8,000 on an engine. If the series isn't sanctioned by IMCA, it should at least follow the rules. IMCA would also have the option of running with the Jackpot Junction tour at places like Kasson, Arlington, Redwood Falls, and wherever else they may run. As I said before, I'm not familiar with racing in Wisconsin so I'm not sure if this would work.

*********

From what I hear the IMCA cars would be competitive but I think the clincher for not going with IMCA would be only $300 to win and the head claim rule. Just my take based on what I hear when talking to guys around here. They have a good group of loyal supporters but it's over 100 miles or further for most of us and there's plenty of room for two Sprint tracks within 100 miles if they take the right approach. Look at the Late Models, Modifieds and Supers, they're racing sometimes on the same night within 100 miles and it's working for those classes.

CLS was instrumental in starting several of the popular classes we see up here. They run an unsanctioned $50,000 to win Late Model show that attracts drivers like Bloomquist, Moyer and Birkhofer. When Robert Lawton's contract ran out they took over promoting their own WoO show and that has been a success. CLS was a training ground for Donnie Schatz and Travis Whitney when they first started driving so they can boast that they helped the top WoO driver and a two time IRA champion get their start. They are bringing the IRA in here several times each season and have been one of the most Sprint friendly tracks in the upper Midwest. If people associated with CLS want to make a serious commitment to a restricted 360 class there is nothing in their past history that to me say's they're not going to give it their best.

Two things that I should mention I heard in conversation with one of the principles. First, that they're willing to hang in there with 12, 15, 18 cars or whatever it takes. Second that they're not intending to run weekly and will not schedule against nearby IRA, WoO or ASCS shows out of respect for the few drivers who run 410's or ASCS 360's. I don't see them scheduling against for example the Knoxville Nationals or any of the big shows down in Jackson. During those first few years there are probably going to be a few guys doing double duty between this new deal and other series and they know that is the case.

We've got guys like Travis Whitney and Jerry Richert Jr. sitting some weekends out because the tow to other races is too far. What's to prevent those guys from dedicating one of their spare cars to this deal? I'm just speculating but it's obvious that we've got a lot of talented drivers sitting home on a Saturday night because of the cost to travel. Another example would be the Grand Forks, Jackson or Husets weeky shows. There are drivers racing at those tracks that have never traveled up here for a race. We've got a lot of drivers that fall into that category in the CLS Mods and Late Models and the guys that are there week in and week out are the backbone of a good weekly program.

One of the people involved in this deal mentioned that the main topic at all the promoters workshops has centered on how to provide a strong weekly show. And how to convince interested parties and potential racers to get involved in the sport. Evidently the people putting on these promoters workshops are seeing that this is essential to tracks and are trying to get that across to the promoters. I've witnessed dwindling fields and crowds so I understand where they're coming from. This should be a good fit for what they've already got and the added benefit is that it's going to make them stand out from the majority up here that all offer the same old classes week in and week out. I'll stand behind this one until my last gasp because I believe in it that much.

When people up in Grand Forks or down in Jackson., South Dakota or Arlington read this thread they're thinking standardized rules. A few facts, 410, forget it, only a couple guys around here can afford that. ASCS 360's? All but three races are in far off destinations like SD and NE, too far and the motors are way too expensive for our weekend racers. IMCA? Why pay the sanction fee when CLS has the clout to start a stand alone deal? Why allow the sleeved injectors on current ASCS type 360's? Those are the only 360's around here not already affiliated with another club. I don't expect any of the Arlington racers with the possible exception of maybe Tony Norem or Johnny Parsons III to even consider switching tracks. Those two both raced at CLS in the past so it's possible but not guaranteed they would consider it.

Again I'm not an official spokesperson but plan on supporting this deal. I know the principles and I think they've got the right long term goal. The first step for any new Sprint Car organization is to convince the potential participants that they're probably not going to become the next Steve Kinser but that doesn't mean they can't come out and have fun.

Stan Meissner

imca type rules seem to work well for economy racing and i think would fit it well at cedar lake. nobody says you have to pay $300 to win (but keep in mind bigger payouts make guys spend more to win more). you wouldn't even have to sanction with imca but keep the rules similar as far as engines, tires and maybe even a gear rule to limit rpm..