Forum: SCRAFAN.COM Forum (go)
Moderators: ljennings

I am really curious as to the race car owners and drivers opinions of USAC. On one of this forum's threads a couple of owners have stood up to say that the main reason they no longer race at The PAS is USAC. With car counts dwindling, perhaps soon to below 20, I find this personally distressing. From the stands, and to me, USAC seems to be doing a pretty good job. But I am just a fan and as such fairly ignorant of the behind the scenes organization and politics of the event. Hoping not to stir up a political hornet's nest....I would ask you car owners and drivers; In the pits, is the opinion of USAC, and the way it is run, generally low? Are there any of you who appreciate USAC and it's methods? Should USAC have a future here in Southern California?

Mike Brown

Good answer!

Nice post and to the point Mike.

"Ralphie, Senor, muchas gracias por una mas cerveza"  -
Scott Daloisio @ the PAS

hey Mike lets go fishin with that can of worms you opened lol.this could get interesting.

ROB

The bait is still out there, though I must admit I have ceased working that poll after race88's response.

Mike Brown

I asked Kevin Miller a couple questions on the radio show last week and got the same ol' runaround, but maybe they are going to get some things changed!!! I don't know!! If USAC stays with the statis quo, I'm done. I won't be back to run at the PAS with USAC unless changes are made. We can go to Victorville and run the open shows for over twice the purse, and not have to put up with all of USAC's balogna. I belirve that USAC's tenure at the PAS should be finished, but I'm not the powers that be, I'm just a lowley ol' car owner. I can however take my marbles and go play in another sandlot. And until I see a change, that is what I choose to do!

I know that I am not alone and there are others doing the same as me, and there will be more to come in the future. There are even more that have just parked their cars and stopped racing all together, and that is very sad!

Gunk, you should really think about changing the words in your photo. You may be more creditable then.

"Ralphie, Senor, muchas gracias por una mas cerveza"  -
Scott Daloisio @ the PAS

Since Lance's post about rough language (see the first thread listed in the event you cant find it...duh), I have seen several posts where lines were crossed that he asked all of us not to cross. Now I see it's getting worse. Lance has bit his nails to the bone to refrain from censoring postings. I'm getting the sensation that some of you are going to force his hand. How about lightening up a little and not put Lance in that position?

Again, I am not an owner or driver, but a fan like Mike Brown and the following is just my opinion for whatever its worth 88. I have a good feeling about Kevin Miller. I might be wrong because it is just a feeling and its still early. I would like to wait a little longer before kicking USAC to the curb (of course I can't). Like Robin Miller stated on Wind Tunnel the other night, "USAC racing has always been good, but the management of the organization has been terrible". That of course is not an accurate quote, but is as close as my damaged memory cells can recall. And of course I respect all opinions of the owners (Ziggy) and drivers on this subject for they are far more knowledgeable than me. Here's hoping Kevin Miller can turn things around, especially for us fans out here in the Golden State.

"Ralphie, Senor, muchas gracias por una mas cerveza"  -
Scott Daloisio @ the PAS

Mike,

That is a very good question and it's not easily quantified. It also comes loaded like a double barrelled shotgun because it's not unknown for competitors in any series to suffer from "excessive officiating" when they do criticize the management. So you likely aren't going to get a lot of competitors racing to their keyboards to answer your question. You will get a lot of people who don't compete with USAC throwing rocks at the poo.

In the past I've caused troubles for car owners I've worked for by expressing opinions that people assumed were an extension of the car owner's opinion. Nothing could be farther from the truth, in fact I rarely consult with them on these types of issues. It's their money to spend how they like and it's not really any of my business to get involved in that. So the opinion that follows has nothing to do with the people I work with.

Having said that, my personal opinion is that USAC is a fine club......for national Sprint/Midget/Silver Crown racing. Yes, they have their problems but I think Kevin Miller has the desire/conviction to get them sorted out and I sincerely believe he will get there. It's probably going to take him until at least this time next year before you START to see any significant changes just because that's the nature of the beast.

You may note that I only mentioned the national clubs of which CRA is not included. Why? The club here historically has operated in a manner where the club membership has a vote in who runs the club, rules changes, tours and other operational matters. Mr Brown, as a member of SCRA you could go to a meeting and your vote counted as much as Mr. Chaffin's when it came time to advise the club president whether or not we should race at say Calistoga. Did that structure always make sense? Admittedly not always but at least the perception was there that you felt you had a voice. If you didn't like the club president, you could vote him out when his term was up. Things were more democratic. Kevin Miller has instituted a framework at USAC for far more open communication than it's been in the past and I applaud him for that. However, let's say that the changes he makes benefit the club (making the USAC board happier) but at a adverse cost to the racer or even say...west coast racer. How does USAC sanction benefit us then? I've give you a hypothetical example - Let's say that USAC mandates a specific right rear for their national sprint cars. They then expand that rule to CRA. Let's say that Hoosier kicked in x dollars for every one of the old type of tire sold. As soon as the sales of the RC-1/2 tires ended, so would Hoosier's contractual obligation to pay into the point fund. End result, people expecting points fund money get hosed. So somebody in Indy makes a decision, albeit logical and our racers pay the price. Do you think that this type of situation would occur if the club leadership was local?

I just don't see where we benefit from a USAC sanction other than by making the Perris/Manzy races at the end of the year national races which forces the national clubs to come out here and race. The thought of a unified non-wing sprint series does sound appealing but I just don't believe that the boys on 16th street will ever allow CRA to be on even footing with the national club. We will always be followers when historically we have led ourselves.

Speaking of Robin Miller, he has another good quote in regards to USAC. If I may paraphrase - "The drivers keep getting younger but the fans keep getting older" He's right, you look in the stands and there's a lot of grey/missing hair and it's the same people that have come to the races for years. Not that seeing the old faces is an problem but eventually you need fresh faces. Sprint car racing isn't attracting/keeping fresh fans and that's probably a bigger problem than yea/nay USAC. Even though Kevin Miller is still fairly new on the job, even he recognizes that this issue is one of USAC's biggest challenges. If he pulls off fixing that problem, I think that the tinkling over USAC dies down considerably. Let's face it, we're racers and we'll always be bitching about something. USAC historically has made decisions that make them a ridiculously easy target.

I would like to drive the Depends car. Actually see if they work.

As usual Mr. Cee you have volunteered some of the most cogent and appropriate quotes on this thread. Originally, I was looking for responses from owners and drivers. But, as you have pointed out what I already suspected, that it would be unlikely to receive a response from an owner or driver, (though prior to this thread I presumed you to be an owner, or otherwise intimately connected.), and that only those who have little knowledge of the actual mechanisms of contract would venture an opinion.

You ventured your opinion.

I will now present my reasons for broaching the subject in the first place. Prior to USAC the racers were in a club, and as such felt tied to one and another in a way that defied rational thought. Now they feel to be members of an organisation, controlled and dictated to. I remember a time at Ascot when I heard Leland Mc Spadden answer the question,..... "Leland, when are you going to quit racing?" And Leland said "When it isn't fun anymore." I will never forget it, and he said "We are a family here, everybody wants to be first on a given night, but we are family. And everyone here would give all that they have to see me here on the podium tonight. When that is gone, I am done."

This was paraphrased but it was pretty close to what he said. In my opinion, what the racers are looking for is the same thing we are all looking for....... Comradery, friendship,,,,,,,,, soul. What USAC lacks is communion. Yeah, they are all together financially, but they aren't together spiritually. My opinion is, USAC needs to change, or a new organisation needs to arise to fulfill the vacancy. One thing is for sure, Faas and Gardner, with the Victorville shows, have made it clear; Make it fun again, and the sport will grow and prevail.................As it should!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just My Opinion.

Mike Brown

prior to this thread I presumed you to be an owner

No Mike, I've just scraped mud on a car or two.

Prior to USAC the racers were in a club, and as such felt tied to one and another in a way that defied rational thought.

Interesting observation. The Manzy race at the beginning of the year was the 1st time I can recall USAC organizing a party/get together for anything other than an awards banquet. SCRA organized several. Just a different philosophy I suppose. I ran into Mike Kirby at the last Perris CRA race and had a moment to chat with him. I asked him about the late models he was running, the motors, etc. He said the motors were about the same as we were running in the sprint cars so they weren't any cheaper and that some were more expensive. Then he mentioned in a way that sounded like it just came to him that crashing a late model is a LOT more expensive than a sprint car. I asked him why he was doing it then. He said it's a LOT less BS than these guys. That tells me he's having fun and I say good for him.

"Leland, when are you going to quit racing?" And Leland said "When it isn't fun anymore."

I think that Leland retired due to family pressures rather than the club not being fun anymore. As I recall, he retired during a period when we were having a lot of fun as a club. His previous year was a big struggle. He thought he was washed up. Then he won the championship the first year the Chaffin/Bromme car came out. Who wouldn't like to go out on top?

Sometimes you do have to fight through the lack of fun in order to get through to the other side. I can assure you that when SCRA split from the original CRA, racing was a struggle. It pitted racer against racer and racing most definitely was not fun for a while. When the SCRA/USAC split came along, I reduced my involvement because the timing was right and I knew racing wasn't going to be fun. I drifted back and last year was the first time in a long time that racing was fun again for me. I get to work with old friends and these young guys have been a lot of fun to work with. So selfishly I'm not so sure that I'm looking forward to another one of these painful splits now that it's fun again for me.

I gat back into sprint car racing a few years ago because I love it, and my son was interested in doing what his old man had done many years before. We had a lot of fun, didn't do especially well, but had a lot of fun and bonded more than we ever could have without the racing. Then USAC started getting stupid, and took a lot of the fun out of it, so we quit USAC and started racing at Victorville and Barona, and a few road trips to Hanford and Tuscon. Racing is fun again! Thank God for Jack Gardner and Cary Faas, to bring the level of racing at Victorville up to where it is. That makes it a lot more fun! I have a young 15 year old driver now in Matt Shedarowich, and hope to be able to race next year at the PAS for rookie of the year, and that too will be a lot of fun if USAC gets their stuff togrther, or someone else is running the show. To me, I don't care which way it is, so long as it's fun. That is the name of the game! We're not going there with thoughts of winning any A mains, but we do want to be competive within our own group and run well and be respective, but above all else, HAVE FUN! And maybe, just maybe, Matt can do well enough to impress some other more well funded owner and move up a notch, then I will be well served and will have done my job. So please USAC, let us have FUN, and don't play a bunch of politics, and make it more afforable for the low budget teams to be able to be your field fillers so you can have great car counts, the fans won't mind paying to see a show with 35 or 40 cars, and we can all have more FUN. Just my thoughts.

I removed all my post on this subject,Sorry I left some of you hanging.Read the first line of the serious question asked by wawrd1.I believed a dialog containing the reasons Owners/Drivers weren't racing at USAC might lead to some solutions .Aparently ziggy and I are the only owners/drivers who bother with this message board. I believe some of you are agents for USAC,every time a serious conversation gets going you derail it ,send it into the wash.I'm Out Of Here.....

AGENTS FOR USAC? Oh my!

You think I jest,I'm dead serious....it started in the '70s,remember the Felix the cat clocks,the eyes fliped left then right,crude but effective camera[tail held the microphone],and the lowly dollar bill,there's a small eye in the pyramid-transmiting camera.last time you visited you proctologist-do you really think there was a reason to put his finger up there,tiny microphone....I could tell you stories ..but wait..I can't

talk to you.. there's a bug up your Bum.....Lions and tigers and agents of USAC..oh my!

race88 look me up at Victorville. I'll be in the pits, I want to buy you a drink.

That's pretty funny. I'm always willing to listen to a good conspiracy theory. By any chance do you have 6 toes and fingers on your feet and hands? I wasn't planning to go to Victorville but maybe I should and meet you guys for that drink. I could even bend over and let you speak directly to USAC. I hope that bug tickles you as much as it tickles me. Well, now it is sure this thread has degenerated off point. As Felix would say..........."Right-T-O".