Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I READ WHAT JEFF SAID AND IT WAS FUNNY, I THINK JEFF KNOWS YOU CANT SEE ANYTHING IF YOU PULL THE LHS DOWN LIKE THE RHS, LET ALONE GET IN IT OR OUT OF IT. IF YOU HAVE EVER RACED A SPRINT CAR OR WORKED ON ONE YOU KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT. WHAT JEFF WAS REALLY SAYING IS IF YOU CAN WIN WITH A 360 WE DONT NEED TO UNHOOK ANYTHING. IF YOU WANT TO SEE A NON WING RACE THEY RUN EM IN INDIANA FOR LESS TO WIN THAN YOUR LOCAL 360 SHOW. I HEAR THE FANS BUST DOWN THE GATES TO WATCH THEM. JEFF MADE A LIVING RUNNING 410 SPRINT CARS AND RUNS 360S FOR FUN BECAUSE THATS ALL THEY RUN DOWN THERE BUT TWICE A YEAR AND HE WOULD LEAVE THAT 360 IN THE TRAILER IN A HEART BEAT TO RUN A BIG BLOCK OR A 305 IF IT PAID BETTER. I LIKED WATCHING HIM AND MISS WATCHING HIM RUN FULL TIME OUT THERE ON THE ROAD. JUST FOR THE RECORD IVE SEEN JAKE PETERS AND GREG BAKER WIN AT HUSETS WITH 360S ON MORE THAN A FEW OCCASIONS. STEVE RUBEN FIGURED OUT LONG AGO THAT YOU NEED REALLY GREAT TRACK PREPARATION, SMOOTH AND SLICK WITH A GOOD BOTTOM AND CUSHION ON TOP, THEY ALSO HAVE US PUT A REALLY HARD RR ON. WE JUST NEED TO TEACH HIM TO PAY 3000 TO WIN AND 400 TO START AND THEY WILL HAVE MORE CARS IN THE PITS, YOU REALLY CANT BLAME THEM WHEN THEY CONSISTENTLY PUT FANS IN THE GRAND STANDS IN NUMBERS WEEK IN AND WEEK OUT.

OUR SPORT REALLY IS NOT AS BROKEN AS YOU MIGHT THINK, GUYS LIKE YOU CUBIC DOLLARS ARE MORE OF THE PROBLEM RATHER THAN ANY PART OF THE SOLUTION. HAVE YOU EVER REALLY RACED A SPRINT CAR? EVER OWNED ONE? TELL ME YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS TO BUY AN OPEN TRAILER, PUT GAS IN THE PICK UP, BUY HALF A DOZEN JUGS OF METHANOL, BUY SOMEONE ELSES PITPASS , HAVE SOMEONE DRIVE THROUGH THE SIDE OF YOUR BRAND NEW RACE CAR ON THE LAST LAP ON OPENING NIGHT WHILE YOUR RUNNING SECOND, SMILE TO YOUR SELF ON THE WAY HOME CAUSE YOU KNEW YOU WERE RUNNING GOOD, WHILE FIGURING OUT HOW MUCH MONEY YOUR GOING TO NEED TO FIX THE RACECAR SO YOU CAN FEED THE PAIN IN YOUR GUT THAT SAYS , IM WINNING IT NEXT WEEK.

PLEASE, PLEASE TELL ME YOU OWN ONE SO I CAN JUSTIFY THE FACT THAT I HAVE TO READ THE BS YOU TYPE ON HERE EVERY OTHER DAY ABOUT HOW TO FIX OUR SPORT. MY GUESS IS YOU DONT OWN ONE AND NEVER WILL, PROBABLY GOT A BUDDY WHO IS A PROMOTER. I WILL BE AT THE KNOXVILLE OPENER AND I WILL HAVE MY MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH IS.

SPRINT CAR RACING IS REALLY NOT BROKEN, THE PRODUCT IS NOT THE PROBLEM, THE GUY SELLING THE PRODUCT IS RESPONSIBLE. FANS QUIT GOING IN ANY REAL NUMBERS TO SEE 1500 TO WIN RACES YEARS AGO. I CAN TELL YOU WORLD OF OUTLAW CROWDS WERE UP THIS YEAR BECAUSE FANS LIKE TO SEE GREAT DRIVERS AND GREAT DRIVERS DONT RUN FOR 1500 TO WIN THEY RUN FOR 10000 TO WIN. PRIZEMONEY IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO BUMS ON SEATS, GOOD PRIZEMONEY PUTS FANS IN SEATS PERIOD. IT COSTS MONEY TO PUT GOOD CARS IN YOUR PIT AREA, IT COSTS MONEY TO TELL THE FANS TO COME, IT COSTS MONEY TO PREPARE A RACE TRACK PROPERLY, IT COSTS MONEY TO PUT GOOD FOOD IN THE CONCESSION, IT COST MONEY TO HAVE T SHIRT SHOOTERS, T SHIRT TRAILERS, FIRE WORKS, MUSIC, A CLOWN GAGGING IN THE GRAND STAND FOR THE KIDS ANY THING YOU CAN THINK OF TO MAKE THE FAN EXPERIENCE BETTER, IT COSTS MONEY TO HAVE A GOOD TRACK ANNOUNCER ,WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT IS IT COST MONEY TO HAVE ATMOSPHERE. IT IS BUSINESS AND ANY GOOD BUSINESS MAN KNOWS YOU HAVE TO SPEND SOME MONEY IN ORDER TO MAKE SOME MONEY. YOU NEED TO REALISE THAT WHAT THEY SELL IS NOT THE PROBLEM IT IS THE DISGUSTING HORRIBLE WAY ITS SOLD. IT IS NOT HARD TO SEE WHY STEVE AND NANCY RUBEN ARE GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO, THEY START WORK ON MONDAY MORNING NOT ON SATURDAY MORNING.

IF YOU ARE SO DESPERATE TO TYPE SOMETHING CUBIC DOLLARS ,WHY DONT YOU START BECOMING PART OF THE SOLUTION RATHER THAN ADDING TO THE PROBLEM, TYPE A LETTER TO YOUR LOCAL PROMOTER WITH SOME SUGGESTIONS ABOUT HOW YOU THINK HE/SHE MIGHT PUT ON A BETTER SHOW SO THAT THEY MIGHT MAKE SOME MORE MONEY, SO THAT THEY CAN PAY A BIGGER PURSE SO THAT SOME BETTER RACERS MIGHT COME TO YOUR TRACK SO THAT THE FAN WILL GET TO SEE A BETTER RACE , PERHAPS THEY WILL COME BACK AND BRING A FRIEND WITH THEM. MY GUESS IS, IF YOU DO THIS AND THERE IS NO CHANGE THE PROMOTER IS MAKING MORE THAN ENOUGH MONEY THROUGH THE PIT GATE AND THE FRONT GATE OUT OF HIS COMPETITORS AND THEIR FAMILY'S COMING TO SUPPORT THEM DO WHAT THEY LOVE SIMIPLY BECAUSE THEY OPEN THEM EVERY WEEKEND APRIL THROUGH SEPTEMBER.

I HATE IT,

PROMOTERS ARE NOT PROVIDING A SERVICE , NO ONE SAID IT WAS EASY BUT ITS BUSINESS THEY ARE IN IT TO MAKE MONEY AND I FOR ONE WANT THEM TO MAKE PLENTY AS LONG AS IT IS NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR SPORT.

YOU COULD STAND TO DWELL ON WHAT MAKES A GREAT SPRINT CAR RACE, THINK ABOUT THE BEST ONES YOU WENT TO AND ILL GUARANTEE YOU COULD START WITH A DECENT PURSE.

THANKS LYNTON JEFFREY

Now known as vortex12............lol

"STEVE RUBEN FIGURED OUT LONG AGO THAT YOU NEED REALLY GREAT TRACK PREPARATION, SMOOTH AND SLICK WITH A GOOD BOTTOM AND CUSHION ON TOP, THEY ALSO HAVE US PUT A REALLY HARD RR ON."

Sounds like a tire rule to me... which is all I myself have ever asked for.

You're in the minority versus the 360s, 358s, 305s, etc... You're outnumbered at least five to one, and most people who drive them wish they could be 410 racing. Too bad most of them would have to take out a 30 year note to do it nowadays. It has always been a bluecollar sport, most people want to see it head back that way, not just Jeff Swindell. Shouldn't you be busy building flat top wings...lol?

"Quotable Quotes"

Doug Auld

If the saying "It's always been expensive to race" is true, how come so many of the legends of our sport were from poor families... and many fielded their own cars?

If taking away some wing and some tire to loosen up winged sprints would put the skill of the driver to the forefront. How could any real racer be opposed to that?


Gary Beam

"In 1984, I bought two Gaerte Engines for $25,000," said Beam. "I can't buy (an engine) today for under $38,500. Then we're looking at a $3,500 freshen-up job every 10 shows. Some things have remained in the same range price-wise, but the engines have escalated and the purses haven't risen to offset the cost."


Butch Beasley

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"I think that there will only be rich people with sprint cars and car counts will be down. Tracks will have to pay more on the lower end to keep people racing."


Jeff Creasy

"This is the last driver (Heimbach) I'll have," Creasy says. "Wherever he goes I'll go. As a sponsor or team manager or whatever. But we don't know what to do. I've been to this point two other times and now I have to make that decision again…The last two weeks he got his feet wet racin' with Rahmer and guys that he looked up to, which is more fun for a kid. But it's a costly endeaver to attempt to do that."

So, will Creasy and Heimbach continue to dominate the 358s or start over with the big boys?

"I don't know," Creasy says. "I just don't know."


Lance Dewease

"Al is a businessman and if he can save money, he is all for it. What businessman isn't?"

"You could buy an engine for $16,000 to $19,000 in the mid-1980s," Dewease said. "Now the engines average $40,000."

"When I started racing in 1985, car counts averaged in the mid 30s and there always seemed to be fans in the stands," Dewease said. "We do have a 358 division now, and that probably has something to do with it. I think more than anything, it is to expensive and purses haven't gone up that much since then."

Dewease thinks the problem (not being able to pass) is easily solved. "The late models went through this years ago," Dewease said. "They had a big right rear and had all these wedges to put in the car, and it was too easy to go fast. We have the same problem. They went to a narrow tire and unhooked the cars and now, they have to race."

"That's what we need to do. The tires have gotten so good, that we need to go to a smaller tire."


Walter Dyer

" The promotors in our area need to stand up and save local racing."

Doug Esh

" An interesting conversation with Doug Esh taught me this: these cancellations shouldn't be frowned upon by the fans. It's saving the teams money, possibly $2,000 per cancellation. This means teams can run longer into the year." - Jerry Reigle


Mike Erdly

"I won't be here 10 years from now talking to you about this," Erdley said, who is employed as a service technician. "There's no way I can afford to do it."


Emmett Hahn

"This is for the working man to be able to come and race. This is for the guy that works a 40-hour week to be able to come and race and think he has a chance to win the feature," Hahn said. "Those engines with -12 heads are the ones we want to see in our races. They've been sitting in garages for two or three years and not being raced. We want the guys with those engines to come race with us..."


Greg Hodnett

"Honestly, if I had to own my car, there is no way I could put my family through the financial hardships it takes to field a race car"

Then Hodnett dropped the line that should be a motivator for all involved.

"No one has the answer to fix it," he said. "But I do know that not doing anything isn't enough."


Chad Kenemah

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"Hopefully down a little on cost so all racers can enjoy what they are doing and not be out of money so fast."


Terry McCarl

FlatOut: Is local 410 racing in as bad a shape as it seems, with tracks dropping them and car counts falling?
McCarl: I think it is in really bad shape. I live around Knoxville so it is hard to see. The local tracks need to quit worrying about running with the Outlaws. Stop it…

FlatOut: What about the 360s? You raced them quite a bit last year. I know you don't think that is the answer.

McCarl: 360s are not the answer. I hate them. I don't care what anyone says, it takes the driver out of it…


Andy McKisson

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"I see a flaw in the local system where as the costs of owning and racing a Sprint Car are rising every year, but the purses are staying the same and sponsorship is getting harder to come by. So to sum it up, I see in five years the blue collar teams that race with limited budgets no longer being existent."


Dave Middleswarth

"I'm all for anything that cuts my expenses. Even if it was putting toy motors in the cars."


Bob Miller

"We need to get the promoters together and then meet with the drivers and owners."

"The costs in the sport are too high, and something needs to happen. We need to get all the cards on the table and work on the future."


Brian Montieth

"I quit there for a year or two...I just couldn't afford it."


Kevin Schaeffer

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"I hope they can get the cost under control. Western Pa. pays the least and the parts cost the same everywhere."

Todd Shaffer

…"I think technology in the motors and the tires has made it more difficult to move around," said Shaffer. "It seems like a driver needs to make a huge mistake in order for you to pass them."

"I don't know what the answer is to make it better."


Jack Sodeman Jr

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"I see sprint racing getting bigger and just too expensive for a working man to keep up with."


Daryl Stimeling

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"Some type of limited racing like 358 Sprints."


Brian Woodhall

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"Way too Expensive!!!"

May 6, 2007

A "Catch-22"

Knoxville faces the potential of shifting from a weekly racing venue with 20-plus full programs to several big event weekends. Capitani said it's more likely weekly shows would continue to run, but with the potential of 360-cubic-inch sprint cars, not 410s, shouldering the regular load.

"There are only eight tracks, by my last count, in the United States that run a weekly 410 show," Capitani said. "So I don't know how the change is going to occur, and maybe it won't. Maybe I'm crying wolf, but it makes me nervous.

"You might see the day where there's still a weekly show, but it will be 360s and maybe 305s, and you'll have special events for the 410s."

Knoxville is battling a drop in weekly attendance of more than 1,500 in five years.

Capitani said five years ago, an average weekly crowd measured about 4,000.

Everything from fluctuating gas prices to the addition of entertainment options such as casinos and minor-league hockey teams affect attendance, Capitani said.

"I'd say the very first year Prairie Meadows opened, we lost 400 paying customers on Saturday night," Capitani said. "They got jobs up there, or they were there. Or else they lost their money during the week and couldn't afford to come to the races."

Knoxville is planning the unprecedented step of marketing itself to youth-oriented Internet sites to help augment its loyal fan base.

Adding concerts to the schedule has been discussed.

But that would increase costs, which, when factoring in a $29,000 weekly purse and burgeoning electric and utility fees for Knoxville's sweeping complex, brings its own set of challenges.

Therein lies the rub: Do you spend more money to drive attendance, thus revenue, when the racing you offer is already top-notch?

"It's kind of a Catch-22 situation," Capitani said. "The economic situation affects everything."

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Lynton hit the nail on the head about Jeff's column..he supports what he is able to race, right now that is 360's.  If he was still on the WoO tour or on the All Star tour, he would write about that.  His column is all about what he thinks, feels, sees, etc.It's his opinion...but it doesn't make him right by any means.  I think cubic is really part of the Y2K fan group that Doug Auld wrote about several issues ago.  If you want to regurgitate quotes constantly (do you work for a political group that researches quotes from years ago?), then maybe re-read that article.  It was by far one of the best I've read.  In my neck of the woods there are several 410 tracks (some weekly, some bi-monthly and some specials only) and there is no lacking for cars.  Black Swamp could quote the figures, but the Ohio Speedweek probably had a car count in the average of the mid to high 40's. I only know of a handful of these cars that buy new motors every year...usually they freshen theirs to the breaking point, or purchase a good used 410 from the stable of WoO motors for sale at the end of the year.  If Kelly could come up with a $35,000 NEW 410 motor they would fly off the shelves.  Trust me, weight would not be an issue...only HP, and last I looked the Dyno didn't have a scale.  BTW Kelly, see you in T-Town in a couple of weeks.

If Knoxville goes to 360's & 305 's weekly with only 410's for specials they can close the place, Fact is NOTHING draws there if there are not 410 winged sprints on the card also.

All this stuff about so much competition for the entertainment dollar, fans will go where the best entertainment is. If Knoxville has good races sprint car fans are not going to stop going to Knoxville to go to minor league hockey games.

Adding concerts, clowns, t-shirt guns, etc is all ok. But the primary entertainment at a racetrack is RACING!! If that is good people will come. I'm not an owner or driver, but I know something needs done to put RACING back into sprint car racing. I've seen more one lane rubber down racetracks at Knoxville the last 2 - 3 years than the prior 20 years combined. Thats like putting the outfield wall 900 feet from home plate and making the base paths out of ankle deep soft sand at a baseball game. It would be impossible to even get a runner on base, much less score. How many fans would show up to watch a game there? When the cars suddenly all line up single file about 5 laps into the A main they may as well throw the checkers right then cause there is no more chance of passing. The leader even follows lapped cars around cause he can't risk getting out of the rubber. If I want to see SPEED I'll go to the drag races and watch cars go 300mph. I go to oval, dirt tracks to see racing. And as Duane says "RACING IS PASSING".

Ohio has always been cheap to run...every weekly track is a slick little bullring. Our Posse privateers who have gone out there to cherrypick over the decades know all to well. In fact the All-Stars better pray Swindell doesn't tow his 360 up there to clean house too! Maybe that is what Capitani should do instead of chopping down injection and bore sizes to keep a full field... He should just chop Knoxville down to size like Sharon did instead...lol? (just kidding!)

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Slick little bullrings? I guess you just mean Fremont (?) because Attica, KC, Eldora, and Sharon aren't slick little bullrings in my opinion. Heck, Waynesfield and Limaland are fast little tracks for 1/4 miles as far as that goes. Fremont is the only one that consistently keeps it dry/slick for the intention of slowing the cars down and decreases the need for a ton of horsepower. Attica is high banked and WFO, as is Eldora as you know. Same goes for KC. No, we don't have a paperclip over here that amounts to two drag strips and two tight turns, but saying all we have is slick little bullrings is way off.

Average car count for 2007 Ohio Sprint Speedweek was 46.

Former Owner/President of FAST and Black Swamp Media
Group. Currently just another fan in the stands.

Yeah, right...lol. Eldora doesn't run weekly but you guys even turned that into a slick little bullring...lol.

_________________
Home of the OUTLAW A$$WHIPPERS
Eldora = 2287 ft. = .43 mile T3=135 MPH
Port = 2716 ft. = .51 mile T3=TBD
Grove = 2792 ft. = .53 mile T3=135 MPH
Selinsgrove = 2847 ft. = .54 mile T1=136 MPH

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

...every year there is always one asshole that gets started on the eggnog a little too early...so sad...

I'd be upset too after being beat up by Posse invaders for so many years... Same as it ever was. Cheer up, there's always next year...lol.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

...ah, I see, Stevie Smith is posse again this week...nice !...

...I thought you were refering to Dewease's total domination of Ohio Speed Week...or Wolfe's amazing 20th place finish at the Kings Royal...or Paulus's incredible win total against the lowly All Stars this season...

If you happened to be at Fremont that night I can tell you that it wasn't dry slick by any means. Stevie is a friend of mine and I can honestly say that he spends very, very little time in PA both racing and otherwise.He currently, as well as the past several years, calls OK home. If you want to claim him as Posse, that's fine.

Just the same, I believe he probably won that $15,000 with just a cheap set of -12 heads, such is the case with most of Ohio. Low dollar teams still have a shot and I hope it stays that way. The only track we have around here like that is Lincoln Speedway. Your race tracks themselves are the key. Sharon was the biggest one you had and they even chopped that down to size to make the racing better. I still think it's a shame however they didn't just unhook the cars a long time ago instead.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

There's no question that the quality (passing) of winged 410 racing is hit and miss at best. The heats are very uneventful with almost no passing. I am talking about the Outlaws for this post.

I have been very impressed with the racing at Volusia the past few years, heats included. As for Eldora, after 20 years of patronizing regularly, I went once last year and the dust was horrendous. It's not on the agenda for 2008 at all.

I am becoming a fan of non-winged sprints simply because the racing is better. It's amazing to count the passes at the race in Oskaloosa (non-winged) during the heats compared to the winged.

The speed is hard to adjust to.

Good discussion guys/gals and a Merry Christmas to all!!

Janet, you'll see me in Tulsa in a few weeks? Why, what's going on here in Tulsa in a couple weeks? Is there something I'm missing?

Cubic has lost his mind, plain and simple, not that it took much to paste and copy for years anyway. The Outlaws have OWNED the Posse at every track, especially the PA tracks other than the Grove, forever, period end of story.

A few years back when Lance won everything in PA he came to the Brad Doty and got lapped by a local who's name I even forget (99 Mountain Dew car) and it's been the same for every other Posse driver who's been not afraid to come to OH. Stevie hasn't been Posse since the early 90's and don't embarass him by that reference. He's never been afraid to leave the porch and his class is rarely equalled on and off the track.

Your guys are so horribly over-rated it's a joke and the lone star of tomorrow is smart enough to know where the talent really is and he wants to challenge them, more power to Lucas! If you ever produce drivers as good as CA then let me know, Kaeding and Walker would lap you're best and have on neutral grounds for years. One track wonders where the track is the only difference don't cut it now and never have, wise up, oh yeah, Merry Christmas. Take It Easy....

PS Well said Lynton, you've done yourself proud and come a long way from that kid I met Down Under more than a decade ago, good on ya'!!!

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Hey cubic does it bother you to wear your tin foil hat for that long?

A poll is supposed to hold weight? Who votes on that poll? Is it anything like the stick and ball hall of fame voter polls? Yeah, those are fair and accurate lol................ Since when was racing a popularity contest?

...

2007 Victory Lane

World of Outlaws
Donny Schatz-20
Joey Saldana-13
Steve Kinser-10
Danny Lasoski-7
Daryn Pittman-5
Jason Meyers-4
Craig Dollansky-3
Paul McMahan-2
Jac Haudenschild-2
Terry McCarl-2
Kerry Madsen-2
Tim Kaeding-1
Brian Leppo-1
Jason Sides-1
Jason Solwold-1
Jeff Shepard-1
Brooke Tatnell-1
Shane Stewart-1
Jonathon Allard-1
Chad Layton-1

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com