Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

All Stars going with Knoxville weekly type of format awarding points for qualifying and heat race finish. Going to invert 4 in heats. Not a big fan of the format as feels puts too much emphasis on qualifying. Guess will see how it goes

https://www.allstarsprintcar.com/

All Stars going with a 1

" puts too much emphasis on qualifying"...

I felt that way for a long time, but if I recall, last year I changed my position cause very few (none?) of the top qualifiers at Nationals made it out of the heats. Correct me if I'm wrong, its late & my memory ain't what it used to be...

I don't think there's any way to line up a sprint car race thats 100% fair & still competitive & entertaining

So its worth a try....

Cars passed to win in the last four races:

Central PA weekly shows on pill draw - 21 - 4 different drivers

WoO - 3

HL - 4

Haven't kept track of the HL format, but the WoO format sucks for sure.   

What is the  posse area format to line up races?

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

No matter how many cars are inverted the winner of a heat will still almost always come from the front row. This is better than WoO but in spec single class racing don't ever expect much excitement up front until the leader hits lapped traffic.

I will never understand the "too much emphasis on qualifying" mindset.  Nothing personal, I just don't get how else you get these cars lined up properly, no matter what format you're using, without taking into account something tangible to line them up with.  If you're rewarded for slow qualifying times, why go fast when it's time to hit the track?  There has to be a reward for giving it 100% during qualifying.  I know most hate the WoO format, and it could use a tweak, but at least there's no gimmicking your way into a WoO feature.  I've been hearing the argument all week that everyone hates how the NCAA Men's National Tournament has gone this year as all seeds are 1 seeds.  Why does it piss everyone off that the best 4 teams in the country are squaring off for the title?  That's the correct ending.  When a sprint car show goes down, I want to see the fastest 10 cars in the front 5 rows.  

I personally think Knoxville's system is the best there is from the weekly shows to the Nationals.  It's a little bit of the best for everyone.  I like the fact the drivers are rewarded with points for hitting the track fast, and being fast for qualifying---something every team should be working on all week before they hit the track---be FAST!!!  The invert allows those cars to accumulate more points by passing slower cars, thus creating racing for those that think heats aren't competitive enough.  Finally, winning the heat does not automatically put you in the feature if you inverted to the pole but didn't accumulate enough points, so that takes the gimmick factor out of it for me.  I attended quite a few Knoxville weekly shows last year.  Their format produced great racing all season, and there was no one in victory lane that lucked out, and inverted their way to the front row.  They had to be fast in qualifying, fast in the heats, and fast in the feature.  Not the fastest, but just fast.  If the All Stars incorporate this same formula, I think it's a great step.  HL and WoO should consider following suit.  

All just my opinion, and if you don't like qualifying, that's your right.  I just don't know how else you line them up.  Inverting qualifying times, without a reward for qualifying fast, leads to drivers not giving 100%.  I think that sucks.  

With the Knoxville format I have just seen it several times where guy goes top 3 in qualifying and goes backwards in heat finishing 6th or 7th and lock into the feature based on the points gained in qualifying. 

If you are going to run time trials I like the high limit foremat beast. As for Pa I am not sure any of the three regular tracks do it same. Port Royal does a pill draw for heats. Some times you get fast cars startin front but you are just as likely to have start last as first.

I do get what you're saying.  I have not noticed this too much, but I'm sure because getting points for qualifying doesn't bother me, I'm also not looking.  So you're not saying "don't reward qualifying" you're saying make qualifying points and heat points more equal, correct? 

I guess I would have to see that work.  I don't like a guy being inverted to the pole of a heat, after running a terrible qualifying lap, getting the same points as your quick-timer because he blasted out to the lead of a heat.  I feel like that rewards mediocrity.  Maybe a few more points for heats?  I'm not opposed.  Or, points for where you finish, an extra point (or 2) for gaining a spot, and a subtracted point (or 2) for losing a spot? 

It's not always perfect, but Knoxville's format works far better than any I've seen.  Also, that guy that goes top-3 in qualifying, then drops to 6th or 7th in the heat (assuming it wasn't for a wreck) is probably not going to be a threat to win anyways, so I'm not that worried....................

2025 ASCoC Format

• 2 laps for qualifying, 2 cars at a time. 
• Heat invert of 4 per heat.
• Qualifying points and Heat race points (see Scheme Below) will be added together to determine Total Driver Points (Ties will be broken by actual qualifying time).
• Heat Transfer cars (See chart above) will be lined straight up by Total Driver Points.
• Top 6 Total Driver Points will make the 6-car dash.
• A dice roll invert of 0, 4, or 6 will determine the dash starting spot.
• Dash finish will determine the stating first 3 rows of the A-main.
• Non-Dash A-main Transfer cars will be lined straight-up by Total Driver Points after the dash cars.
• All Non-A-main Transfer cars will be lined straight-up by Total Driver Points into the B, C andor D-main.
• B-main transfers will tag the tail of the A-main by their B-main finish.

Total Driver Points - Scheme

Qualifying Points - (1) 200; (2) 198; (3) 196; (4) 194; (5) 192; (6) 190; (7) 188; (8) 186; (9) 184; (10) 182; (11) 180; (12) 178; (13) 176; (14) 175; (15) 174; (16) 173; (17) 172; (18) 171; (19) 170; (20) 169; etc.

Heat Finish Points: (1) 100; (2) 97; (3) 94; (4) 91; (5) 88; (6) 85; (7) 82; (8) 79; (9) 76; (10) 73; (11) 70; etc.

*200 Bonus Points added to all transfer Cars. (24 or less cars, must finish in the top 6 to earn bonus points.)

Sounds like a cluster already

Another stupid format. Did Danny Dietrich come up with this one too? Earning points and then doing a redraw is stupid as F@@k.

Too funny, bout spit my beverage out on that one. Thanks for the laugh.

Yep, I chuckled too

 (Not drinking anything.... )

"I just don't know how else you line them up"

2 people already answered that: pill draw, no qualifying necessary

Or all the other variations... not disagreeing with you, I don't think there's any format thats gonna be 100% fair & still competitive & entertaining

When I started watching dirt track back in the early 1960s, it was FULL inversion by season points.... "modified" coupes. The thing was they were all home built & different. In 1962, my 1st dirt track hero, Smokey Stover, won 22 out of 24 races at Eastside Speedway in Waynesboro, Va., starting damn near every race from the back. It was wild watching him fight his way thru the pack every weekend, & the fans ate it up. They were all either "Pro Smokey" or "anti Smokey".....

But nowadays all the cars are almost the same, so????

"everyone hates how the NCAA Men's National Tournament has gone this year as all seeds are 1 seeds.  Why does it piss everyone off that the best 4 teams in the country are squaring off for the title?  

Not "everyone"... doesn't bother me at all. That how the seeding system is supposed to work. Usually there are more upsets

Since you brought up March Madness, I gotta say the the 3 point shot is ruining my favorite sport... pass up layups to throw it out for a 25 footer????

I guess I'm just an old fart....

Basketball is junk now.  I agree.  

I realize the pill draw would be the alternative----it's just not a good choice for professional racing.  Fine for the Saturday night weekly points shows I guess.  

Your other statement:  "I don't think there's any format thats gonna be 100% fair & still competitive and entertaining"  Truth!  I'll start with 100% fair---the WoO is 100% fair, no questions about it.  When it comes to the other 2, there are some lame-brain ideas on how to manufacture competition and entertainment, but they are far from 100% fair.  It's just WWE in racing.  So, IMO, Knoxville comes as close to hitting all 3 of those as anyone on the planet.  

Central PA pill draw cars passed to win count now up to 29.  Up for 21 today in just one race

Macri the first repeater and holds the record of most passed with 8.

Try to explain to me again how heads up time trial shows are "fair" to the folks buying the tickets. 
Jus sayin