Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I haven't posted here in awhile, but I was wondering if someone could enlighten me about this, because it actually doesn't make much sense to me.   I have my own opinions on whether two National winged Sprint Car series is really sustainable, but this is not really about that.   My actual question is this, why did High Limit purchase the All Stars?

The purchase doesn't actually seem to make much sense unless High Limit recieved some things that I'm not aware of.   The biggest benefit to High Limit seems to be that they got access to a few dates on the ASCOC calendar (ex.  Tuscarora 50).  Aside from that, what are they getting for their money that they could not have done on their own without the expenditure (unless the deal was very cheap)?

They could have gotten a Flo deal, and most of their schedule on their own.  They kept almost none of the ASCOC staff.   They are not going to leverage the name recognition the All Stars have.  They are running a schedule/series which looks nothing like the ASCOC schedule.   They may get a couple of the All Star regulars to follow their entire schedule, but that would have happened anyway if the money/schedule was right, and if Tony didn't want to run the All Stars anymore, it would have "disappeared"  on its own.   In essence, at least from the outside, the All Stars were purchased, to be disbanded.   Are they getting something from this deal that I am not aware of (Infrastructure, equipment...etc.)?  

Exactly, destroyed a long running regional series for what?

Most of the All Stars aren't going to run a national series so the ones that got screwed are the All Star fans, drivers, and tracks.

High Limit only had 6 cars that ran all 12 races this year. That is with shadowing the Outlaws.

Maybe they'll do like SRX and bring there own cars to the tracks with hired drivers. Sarcasm

Correct

Now that the HL is going to 50 races, I'll bet the number of cars that run the entire series drops from 6 last year to somewhere between 1 - 3.  It is quite possible that the only car that runs every single race will be Brad Sweet.  Larson was one of the 6 last year, and he will be unable to run most races.  If Rico decides to run the HL, he may be car number 2 that runs every race.  However, you aren't going to pick up a lot of guys willing to run all the way out to the west coast one week, with big races back in PA the following week.  Why would they? 

We all about to figure out why the Outlaws have contracts and exclusivity rights to their drivers.  Not saying the shows won't be great, but don't get surprised when you're at a "HL race" and there are only 2 or 3 full-time HL guys.  Please don't be asking "where was this guy or that guy?"   Easy, they're at home running a race that pays decent money for no travel.  They have no contractual obligation to drive all the way across the country, so they don't have to be there.  Don't get me wrong, there could be more on year 1 of this national schedule, but it won't work with this model for another year.  You are going to see nothing more than a HL race advertised with Sweet and another car or 2 running against your locals.  If that's what you like, you're going to be in luck.  Now, the HL races will have everyone for the East Coast and nearly everyone for the midwest shows, so they will be great shows as well.  Let's see how the "series" goes when they head out of the area.  It will be much like the "All-Star" shows were in WI------3 All Stars and the rest IRA or MOWA---something we can see all summer without the hype.  

Don't know?  The All-Stars is gone.  Don't need the complete schedule to come out.  There are races on the HL schedule now for the west coast.  I'm not sure what else needs to be said to conclude that the All Stars schedule no longer exists. 

I don't think they valued the history of the All Stars and their importance to Ohio. The whole thing is unorthodox for sure. 

It looks like they will be going west earlier than a National series normally does and the Gold Cup will be moved a few weeks earlier (unless they have 2 west coast swings but I doubt that), then they will move to Skagit for Labor Day weekend, then all the way cross country to Port the following Thurs. 

Knoxville to Chico is 1700 miles, Chico to Skagit is 740 miles (with some stops along the way to other tracks) and Skagit to Port is an absurd 2800 miles. If that's the plan,that seems crazy. But we'll see. 

It feels to me with Sheldon commiting and Rico being non committal the balloon is losing air and we're still in 2023. The Woo was flexible letting teams run four shows but that wasn't good enough and now here we are. Remember nobody has to sign the Platinum contract giving teams free reign to run any show they want but they don't they all sign it. Everyone boohooing about driver freedom are gonna find out what happens when you poke the bear too many times.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm super pissed that the Outlaws aren't coming to Port in 2024.  They seem to have put all their eggs in the High Limit basket, and I think that was a bad choice.

The HL series going to the west coast is not stupid. What's stupid is the number of people who think a full time field of drivers is coming with them.  They will probably put on a great show.  Brad, KKR, maybe Rico.................who else is going to run across the country 2 times in 2 weeks without contractual obligation?   Let's say it works for 1 year.  How many drivers will look at 2024 when they decide what to do in 2025 and say "last year's trip wasn't really worth all of the travel" and then you have 1-3 guys. 

UNLESS..........................maybe the HL for 2025 will make drivers sign a contract so they will HAVE to come out west to get the points money!  There's an idea!  And, to make sure those drivers do come, and don't just stay somewhere else where it's more convenient, maybe the HL series will make them sign a no-compete clause.   That'll show the Outlaws!!!!  THAT WILL SHOW THEM!!!   HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I hope everyone is catching the irony in this.....................................

I agree. I wish Port would have dropped the High Limit series for the Tuscarora 50 and went with a 3 day Tuscarora 50 with the WoO and a 2 day Weikert Memorial with the High Limit or the WoO. That would be plenty of sanctioned 410 races.

You have to wonder what sactioning fee for High Limit/WOO is and how much control both have over races. I can't think crowd size would vary much between the two. Those are already among Port's most successful races.

Am I missing something about the HL fill timers?  Don't they have to still attend all of the HL races to get the travel money?  My understanding is that they are not limiting the races outside of their sanctioning, but they must attend all of their sanctioned races?  Meaning that, if they just decided to skip the West Coast, they would be missing out on the extra perks offered to fill timers?  The full timers are still obligated to attend all races to get the perks?

My understanding, from all of the World of Outlaws haters, is that the HL series would not hold them to anything, and would allow them to do what they want, when they want.  Now I think everyone is starting so see the flaws in this, and actually how important the business model of the WoO was in maintaining a true national touring series.  

Couldn't agree more. Absolutely stupid decision to drop the WoO entirely although, I made a bet with myself that they would and they did. You're exactly right. They should've tried to get the WoO to sanction the 50. That alone would've elevated that race to crown jewel status. Having the outlaws at the fair would've given them so many possibilities from fan events and promotions to get people to the fair on non race days which would be highly beneficial. I've been to that fair a few times on non race days and attendance was piss poor. Especially in comparison to other area fairs that draw massive crowds every day. Oh well. They made their bed. Guess they'll have to lay in it.

Anyone who doesn't see it at this point, just doesn't wanna see it and probably are the one's flipping off Donny Schatz at the Grove as if he ever gave a shit what a few drunken hilljacks from Pennsylvania think of him.

My thoughts exactly.

I know it will not matter one tiny bit but I will not support HL by attending their events and I don't have flo. I don't care for how they've thrown a long standing sanction to the curb. 

This is very well said

The shows with giant crowds,like WOO shows at the Grove with 10,000 people packed into the place...  ...most of these fans heard 'World of Outlaws" when they planned their 1 night at a sprint car race all year.  Some shows, with big crowds, they heard "Kyle Larson".  I expect WoO to have better attendance at the track, based on name recognition.  I have run into people wearing WoO shirts out in public, and they can't really name one driver, but they go to the nearest WoO show every year and tell me how much they love it.  Those people are not going to a HL race.

The West Coast HL shows will be glorified NARC shows. That's not a slam on NARC, either. it's just the most likely scenario in my view.

My take on high limit is simply a few observations about how it will affect me personally in my location along with some thoughts on the challenges any new series will face.  That has not changed and I am not taking sides but just watching how it all shakes out.

My takes are:

1). The Outlaws have decades of name recognition and relationships with the promoters that often go back many years.

2). Promoters pay for advertising and include expected competitors in their adds.  How will High Limit navigate that?

3). Rumor has it there was a series called the All Stars but one wouldn't know that living in Minnesota based on how many times they have raced here.  In other words the All Stars mean nothing to fans up here, we never see them.  With Jackson, Cedar Lake, Knoxville and Husets all staying with the Outlaws the end result is that we won't see Brad Sweet up here when the WoO comes around.  
4).  The WoO faced similar situations in 1989 and 2006 and survived without any significant impact.

Most of my interest is focused on our local racing and drivers.  If I travel or attend a race it's going to be one of the tracks I mentioned or an IRA race.  Based on what we know so far the biggest impact will likely be that we won't see much of Brad Sweet when the Outlaws come around the area.  I suspect he will be at the big money shows and the Nationals but may not show up at Cedar Lake. 
 

I can't get very excited as someone who lives in a smaller market off the beaten path.  High Limit is likely to never race up here and it may take away more than it adds to our racing experience.  The touring series are just one aspect of being a Sprint Car fan with so few dates that don't require travel.  High Limit won't change that.

Stan Meissner