When the NYT Crossword puzzle answers the clue "Rugged Dirt Track Racers" with "Sprintcars" in today's puzzle. . . . . . maybe we aren't quite as niche as we thought.

And if that's the case. . . . .It's all Kyle Larson's fault.

When I think of rugged dirt track racersI think more of a late model than sprint car.

Wow, thats a surprise!

I thought you were gonna talk about Flo's Kyle Larson documentary series being on TV...

That should pique the interest of some potential new fans, its excellent

Maybe the NYT puzzle makers saw the show?

By the way, congratulations on even trying that puzzle... its hard!

No chance sprint cars can go mainstream.  Too many backward thinking, I'm afraid of change, get off my lawn, not in my back yard, fans of sprint cars for us to move forward.  

That's an interesting take. I'm trying to think of some particular issue that you're referring to and it's not coming to mind. Maybe when Humpy Wheeler thought sprint cars should have starters? They shouldn't.

I was just musing the other day about how I'd love to watch a video series about the evolution of sprint cars. This is my 50th summer of watching sprint cars. In that time they've morphed into something entirely different. In 1973 100" modifieds were morphing into sprint cars. Sprints at my local track were an 1800# non-wing car sporting a 360 Chevy engine with a 4-barrel. The seats were upholstered and the roll cage was probably bolted on. They were probably a handful to drive, with a spring front end and no power steering. First place in the main was based on a percentage of the gate receipts A good night would pay over $300! Since then, the afraid of change, get off my lawn, not in my back yard, folks in the sprint car world have made sure nothing changed.

Sprint cars won't ever become mainstream because they are too unique, and that's a good thing. 

That's too many letters for 14 accross. 

" I'd love to watch a video series about the evolution of sprint cars

Me too!

I guess that depends on what you consider main stream. Sprint cars have as much exposure today as they ever have IMO. Tony, Kasey, Ricky, Christopher, Kyle, and obviously others are a large part of that. 

I remember a time when it was such a big deal when someone from Nascar was racing, and now it seems common. Still cool. 

The availability of the internet from our palms I think also plays a large role, and pair that with the streaming services that have improved each year. 

The exposure helps in attracting sponsors, and people potentially interested in funding a car. The more this happens the more the drivers will become cookie cutter. It's inevitable. 

Keep It Real

Imagine if around 20 years ago when NASCAR was nearing its peak, if there was that kind of interest in sprint car racing then, that there is now. 

Really could make a person wonder what the result/influence would have been.

But, back to reality, have a great weekend of sprint car racing wherever you choose to go! Lots of good options!

I have aready watched that one. They were running them in the MidWest earlier but I was at Port Royal the night that Lou Blaney, Gus Linder & Mitch Smith showed up with the first sprint cars there and were not allowed to run. They  left them run a ten lap $100 to win exibition race. Have been watching them evolve since then.

The sport declined after the early 2000s (when tv went away and with it a lot of big time sponsors) so having Stewart and Kahne involved was a big deal to at least maintain a level of general interest among those who follow motorsports. I think Larson has something to do with the upswing of course but predominately it's been streaming and the ability for people to see the racing on a regular basis that has hooked them. There are a lot more new fans now, you can tell by the questions on social media about basic things like formats and how long the races take etc... 

The key as with anything is to grow the sport without changing what makes it great. We'll see how much farther it can go but 2023 has been a great year at the box office for sprint cars.

Do you recall the specific reasons for DQS?

Sprint cars were not allowed to run with what they called super modifieds then. The next year they started to run a mix until it went all sprint cars.

Thanks, but not very specific

What was the difference between the 2 at that time?

Go to the Port Royal speedway website, click on photos, then oldies and you will see the progession over the years.

I'm sure there were variations around the country. In my area, the upper plains, the difference was something like this:

Supermodifieds were heavy, homemade cars. They usually had square tube frames, or narrowed car frames. Body work was a mixture of narrowed up faux coup bodies mimicing the cars from the 30's, or things that looked like they had been made in a tin shop. The motors were mostly stock. with stock carbuerators and straight pipe exhaust. The suspension was pretty crude. Most everything about them was rather crude. Our local track had a rule that all fans had to be painted a bright color for safety reasons. The driver safety was also pretty sub-par. It was not uncommon to see guys without gloves racing  while wearing open face helmets and cowboy boots.

The new sprint cars coming in were a different breed altogether. They had tubular chassis. Some were even built in a factory somewhere back east. The first production chassis I saw when I was about 12 was a Beck chassis. The motors, suspension were an upgrade as well. The sprint cars had a considerable weight advantage over the supermodifieds. I believe this alone made for a fairly quick transition from one to the other. They also had a little more sophistication to their styling. Upholstered seats the blended into the profile of the distinctive sprint car tail tank became the norm. 

A funny side note: Jackson Speedway in Minnesota had a goofy rule during the transition era. Well into the 70's, the sprint cars would attach a little roof to the roll cage in order to race there. 

As far as starters go, I don't really care one way or the other.  However, it is 2023, and if they decided to put starters on the car, I wouldn't throw a fit.  But that was not what I was referring to.   (The rest of this is not aimed at your response Murphy, just my observances)

Facebook and this message board are full of WoO haters.  They hate corporate sponsorships------yet want bigger purses and lower gate costs.  They bitch about a $40 ticket to a WoO show, but when I take my family to any of the other "mainstream" sports, such as the NHL or NFL, nose-bleed seats can run $200+.  They bitch because of the costs to compete, yet I know of no other "mainstream" sport where it is cheap to field a team and compete.  The casual racing fan refers to all winged sprint cars as "World of Outlaws cars."  The World of Outlaws is the only governing body that has gotten anywhere close to mainstream in the world of sprint cars and the majority of the fans seem to hate them.   

A large percentage of sprint car fans hate anyone but their locals winning a show, complain when someone comes in and steals the purse from someone who "deserves it", and cannot stand when drivers thank 5 sponsors.  No mainstream possibilities with a fan base like that.  I believe it was Bill France who said you either get bigger or you get smaller---you cannot stay the same.  He was correct.  Nascar got smaller for a lot of reasons that are not pertinent to this conversation.  

The haters in our sport want:

The World of Outlaws to go away

Only have true outlaws running the country with no organized sanctioning body with actual rules

Magical, high purses while keeping the costs at the gate down

Streaming to go away because it's ruining attendance

No corporate sponsorships that bring dollars to the sport (i.e. Hoosiers exclusive deal) because it annoys them when a driver has to thank anyone but Tony's Pizza or Bob's Chicken Shack

Fast, heavily-funded drivers inverted to the back of every race so their inbred, mouth-breathing local hero can be handed a victory without deserving one   (This is probably one of the most popular amongst the haters)

The thought process above is running rampant amongst our fans.  The formula above does not allow the sport to move forward or get bigger.  And since it cannot remain the same forever, that gives it only one more avenue and that's to get smaller.  The WoO is the only way this sport expands because of the national exposure and cross competition.  If you want to see the WoO die, you are rooting for the sport of sprint car racing to die as well.  

Sprint cars evolved from many things, but one of the innovators were the west coast 'hard tops' run at San Jose and Kearney Bowl (Fresno)in the 60's, here's a refresher.....

Thanks. I knew most of that, have seen plenty of them at the museums like EMMR & Speedy Bill's (don't recall any at Knoxville, but that could be my fading memory)

I was wondering more what the track officials told them when they showed up & got turned away.... like "you can't run that here because....."???

tube chassis??? super mods started out as production cars & were modified.... would a tube chassis mean it was a purpose built race car & therefore not "modified"?

Here in central pa they were basically modified coupes, in 63 the Grove had it's first National Open guys came from everywhere with supers and some sprints most notably Gordon Johncock and Sammy Sessions with winged supers from Michigan Johncock won. The next year's after that the mods started getting more cutdown and smaller. After a huge year in 66 Ray Tilley in the Bud Grimm ford was approached by Floyd Trevis from Youngstown Ohio to build a car to the 30X90 specs they had here and dominated the car basically a Sprint car with sheep's clothing after that they opened rules up. Im probably wrong on some details but that's what I remember.