Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Very few people have given to this sport more then Tod has. So comparing his to that snake oil salesman is a travesty against everything that is right.

Well, it's a business being run like a business. What else would you expect?

In fairness I think he tried but I don't think weekly got overwhelming support. Why? I'm not sure why. Is there not a lot of teams located near the track? Is the population based around the area to sparse for reasonable crowds each week? Prob not a good comparison but would agree his focus has shift west to Husets.

You can  buy  it if you want.

When I was involved with Jackson Speedway back in the 70's and 80's the economics, demographics and the sport itself were very different than it is today. 

And it's not Jackson-specific, at all. There are lots of tracks all over that struggle or have now closed. Just in the past few days Voluneer Speedway shutdown, citing the whole 'weekly' vs 'special event' issues they had been dealing with as a function of overhead expense. 

For the majority of the sport, 'weekly racing' ended a decade ago and it's just now catching up to certain areas across the country. Weekly racing may work in some areas well into the future - but it's not the norm.

Another reality is that as racer and track overhead costs have skyrocketed over the period, the population base around where the track is has basically flatlined since 1980. 

So in order to keep a business like this operational in most cases, big events are the only real way to get out of town fans to make the numbers work.

No different than a track like Eldora. I've been there for LM and sprint shows where there were well over 10,000 fans there. But I've been to several shows there that were more 'regular' in nature and you could literally pick a seat about anywhere.

It paid $1,200 to win sprint cars 'weekly' at Jackson in 1980. The purchasing power of a U.S. dollar in 1980 compared to 2023 is $3.70 to $1. That translates to $4,400 to win today for the same 'money' as in 1980.

Tickets and pit passes then were $10 at the most and the pits were $15 - translated to 2023, that equates to a $37GA ticket for a regular show and a $55 pit pass. Clearly, that's not the case now.

Google has a tremendous amount of demographic and economic information free and at your fingertips if you know what you're looking for.

Here's a quick example about population changes by state, comparing IA, MN and TX (where I've lived since 2000), and if you look at 1980, then look at today's numbers, it's actually quite shocking.

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=kf7tgg1uo9ude_#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=population&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=state:46:19:48&ifdim=country&hl=en_US&dl=en_US&ind=false

This is a way way longer conversation than just these couple pieces of the puzzle...but hopefully it will shed a bit of light to the conversation.

I hope the fans in the area continue to get to enjoy the great facilities, racers and the sport, and I am glad there's someone that's stepped up to the plate to take on the inherent challenges facing the sport. 

The one word I would use is politics. The govenor of MN is a bumbling idiot, govenor of SD not so much. Tod took a hit for having to many people at a event during Covid, penalized by the govenor. The opportunity to buy a track in SD. presented itself and he bought it. That track will never be as good of a track as the one in Jackson but SD helped him out while MN pinched him down. If you look at the stands for a weekly show Knoxville, Husets not that many in the stands. Bring in a big money race anyplace and you have alot of fans. Special events are what people want to attend. Would it be nice if a few more races were held at Jackson, obviously it would. Jackson is a special place to me since that is the first place I ever witnessed a race back in the late 60's when a flagman named Leland Erickson was worth the price of admission.

For the majority of the sport, 'weekly racing' ended a decade ago and it's just now catching up to certain areas across the country. Weekly racing may work in some areas well into the future - but it's not the norm   
 

 Probably the sadest thing I've read today but probably true....
 

WEEKLY RACING > SPECIALS    Without a doubt.

Are you sure it was $10 a ticket at Jackson in 1980?  I was born in 1982, so obviously I wasn't there but I distinctly remember in 1992 a ticket to Rock Rapids was $6 or $7.  Jackson at that time was the same price and I believe Husets was a dollar more.  I'm not saying you're wrong since I obviously wasn't there but I have a hard time believing in 12 years the ticket prices dropped $3.

This is not gospel by any means but I had heard a few years ago that this was his goal.  He wanted to run a few specials and let someone else lease the track and run weekly shows.  Depending on the terms it could be a really good deal for a good promotor.  Luckily Hoseheads is full of brilliant promotors.

Todd is a successful businessman. Knoxville weekly shows according to friend on the board usually show red and the week of the Nationals make the whole year. Not many had the vision of Chuck to build Hussetts into what it is today but couldnt run a racetrack. I have a few friends that have promoted racetracks and considered buying a small track near Belmond Iowa but when I found out how much weekly insurance plus it is a thankless job with a lot of headaches. A top promoter  told me that his lowest classof hobby stocks made him more than the top class one reason is they bring all their buddies thru the pit gate to help.Times have changed as many of races are on Flo and Dirt Vision and some tracks hope that cocessions and beer are a big help. Track managers make more than true promoters. Being a nice guy is not a number one qualification to being a promoter.

The biggest difference is Chuck was self centered and doing it all to get attention. Tod is running his tracks as a business, but based on his history of supporting racing he must truly be a fan. 

The final night of the high bank nationals, Tod was walking on the midway right before the feature. I didn't recognize him but my friend stopped him and thanked him for everything. He stopped and talked for a couple minutes and was very apologetic about the rain. I could also sense some relief and happiness in his voice, as they were pushing off the feature. After he left I asked my friend who he was, and he told me TQ. He didn't know him but they talked for a couple minutes on the midway, as the feature was pushing off for the biggest race in track history. You can't tell me that would happen with Chuck. My impression is TQ is a class guy..

I'd say it has more to do with the economics of running a business. The number of people that live within an hour's drive of Jackson is about 100,000. The number of people living withing an hour's drive of Husets is more like 350,000.

 again... VERY FEW PEOPLE have contributed to the sport of sprint car racing than Tod. He didn't get to where he is today by making foolish business decisions. I remember reading an article about this subject and if I remember correctly, it didn't get the support. IDK if that was fans, racers, sponsors or a combo of all (3). 

Tod and Chuck are not equal, so you take the cake for ignorant comments, at least for today. 

Keep It Real

OK, so what you're saying is, you just came here to argue? If it's that important to you, I'm in favor of letting you be the winner of whatever it is that you just have to right about.

ps. The world is changing. The good old days aren't coming back.

100% correct!

Have gone back and forth with Tod about this subject several times. I've been going to Jackson since I was 5 years old. I'm now 66. I was assistant flagman at Jackson for several years? back in the 80s and early 90s. I do know quite a bit about Jackson when I was assistant flag man, it was Denny Houseman that was the promoter. I know Denny always complained he wasn't making any money, but I don't think that was the case. Promoters I always like to say that. Back then, we ran on Saturday nights. Ran 360 Sprint. And three IMCA classes. So you kinda covered all the fan base. I always seem to have a nice crowd in the stands. It was the old wooden grandstands back then, with the roof. and the bleachers on each end. What's a big old half mile? Track never had any dust. Never stop during the night to farm. The track, as they say now. We ran a fast show. If Denny wanted to take a break. Paul. me on the flag stand. would stop for 5 minutes, and then we'd call for the cars to get out in the track for the next race. That was a long enough break. Some of the workers got paid. Some were volunteers. The ones that got paid sure didn't make much. I think I made $25 a night. Might have been a little less, but I know it wasn't more. Things seem to workout good back then. I know my discussions with Tod. He said that he's. running it as a business. and if it's not going to make money, he's not going to run weekly and I guess I can see his point. You can't run a business if it's going to lose money. but I guess I can't quite understand how other promoters ran it. And now Tod says it's losing money. Of course he did put a lot of money into it. I do know this. that the way it's being ran now, a lot of people have forgotten about Jackson. and do not even realize that it's running anymore. And when it's so this type of deal now. that's why you're not getting people in the stands. A lot of people don't bother looking at social media. Of course, back when I was working there, there was no such thing as social media. There were billboards all over the place, down at the lakes. and radio and TV. whatever the answers are, doesn't look good for Jackson. Like I say, a lot of people don't even know it's being ran anymore. And for all the money that was spent on it, that's too bad. It deserves a lot better. And to all those smart asses out there that say, well, then you come up with the money and you run it. I live out of Social Security. That's not going to happen. So if that was in the back of your mind to say that. maybe you could do it. Glen Murra

Please don't take this as a personal attack but how do you post?  I'm assuming you have some kind of voice to text kind of thing?  Again don't take any personal offense to this but your posts are the hardest to read of anyone on here.  I have no idea what you just said.

Thank you for sharing....

If you have trouble reading something and it's not a productive response, it's easier to NOT respond. 

Keep It Real

Sorry. you have a hard time understanding it. Just take your time and read it. You'll eventually get it. When I was little, I had a terrible hearing loss, and nobody knew it. And I guess I was dyslexic. And now at 66 I have Parkinson's disease. I know they're all excuses. As for Ford, who gives a shit about him? He just personally attacks everybody. It's his favorite thing to do. I could care less about him. As I'm sure many people do. He likes to dish it out, but when somebody hands it back to him, he can't handle it. My point about Jackson is. it seems like the other promoters didn't have any trouble making money there. I could be wrong. Probably am wrong. But it seems like everything went down the drain when they switched to Friday nights. And they started paying 3000 to win for the 360,s Which is more than Knoxville pays? Sure. its nice for drivers and team owners.That means you just have to put that many more people in the stands. and They don't. promote their races very well That just is my opinion. But like I said before, it's their operation to run over there. It saddens me to see. only a handful of races there during the year. And my personal opinion, the future doesn't look very bright. I think there's enough race cars in the area that would want to run there weekly. But then again, I'm just the guy that has to use the voice deal. on the computer and I've only been going to races for 60 years. So I guess I don't know anything. even though I probably forgot more things about racing than many people think they know including Mr Ford Everybody have a good weekend and enjoy the races. I sure hope they get a bigger crowd at Husets The next two nights, then they've had the first two nights for their late model stuff. As for me, I'll be sitting at home watching the. non-wing sprints on TV.      Oh, by the way, Mr Ford, I'm sorry that I've hurt your feelings in the past. I apologize. I'll try to do better in the future. You should try to do the same. You never know, we might have to rely on each other to fight off the Russians or the Chinese. in the not too distant future.    Glen Murra

As Paul Harvey would say, this is closed circuit for Glen in Elmore. I thought of you while reading a book about  Cotton Thompson, a man from Elmore who had his wife murdered in St. Paul in the early 60's. He's the second most famous person from Elmore. Walter Monda is number , and I guess you are third.

My brother in law was a quadrapalegic. He could send emails by holding a pencil in his teeth and poking one letter at a time with the eraser end. When you got something from him you appreciated the effort he had put in to communi with others. 

Back to Glen. I'm 4 years younger than you and my eyes are not what they used to be. Others have said they have a hard time following you. I'd say it might be because of the font size (how big the letters print.) Try this. There's a gray box above this text. On the right hand side is the letter A. Just to the left of that is a down arrow. Click on that and it allows you to make the font bigger. For example, this is a 4 (14pt). 

This is a 5 (18pt) size.

This is a 6(24 pt) size.

Someone also mentioned punctuation being funky. I don't know if you're using voice to text, or just typing. Try just putting some extra spaces between thoughts. Folks that want to understand will understand.

The result would look like this:

I went to Jackson a lot in the late 80's   I loved the sound of the sprint cars echoing under the old covered grandstand    I've never seen a stock car race there   I saw Bobby Allen and Doug Wolfgang win Jackson Nationals titles there    I also remember the races ending early one night when Marlon Jones' wing flew off and took out a light pole.

Try practicing on this thread    I don't know how to do it, but there's probably a way to set your font size so it defaults to a bigger size.    I'd have to have one of my kids show me how

-all the best to you!