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Topic: Devil's Bowl
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April 01, 2023 at
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Was there any passing in the WoO at Texas? Shark team seemed off, any ideas why?
Even though I may not know you, I
care what most of you think!
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April 02, 2023 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on April 01 2023 at 10:51:39 PM
Was there any passing in the WoO at Texas? Shark team seemed off, any ideas why?
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Watched on Dirt Vision and the track was tacky and didnt widen out and as soon as leader caught the lapped cars might have only passed one got behind 21 and stayed there. 83 got a good start and that was race. Not much different than a rubberdown race where they dont take time to rework. I love sprint cars racing butthis wasnt a good race to watch cars were all fast
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April 02, 2023 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on April 01 2023 at 10:51:39 PM
Was there any passing in the WoO at Texas? Shark team seemed off, any ideas why?
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Rod, I'm answering your first question as if you didn't see it but I'm guessing that you did see it. Truth be told I only saw the heats and have not seen the feature, but the big answer to your first question is NO! There wasn't any passing at Devils Bowl. The reason I can answer it is because there almost never is any passing there. I'm pretty sure at least one of the heats had the same finishing order as the starting order. The racing has always sucked at Devils Bowl. They've reshaped parts of the track a couple of times trying to improve it but nothing has worked. You wanna see racing at Devils Bowl? Take the wings off, that's the only way you'll ever see it.
I would add that the WoO format doesn't help at all. Let's take the quick timer, who's obviously the quickest car in the field, and start him on the pole of the heat race so he can run off and leave everybody. Yeah, that makes for great racing doesn't it? I'm just thankful that Knoxville has been smart enough not to allow the WoO to control the format for the Nationals. Later today I'll watch the feature from Devils Bowl last night. I hope I see some passing and some actual racing, but I'm not holding my breath.
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April 02, 2023 at
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I went Friday night and the winds from the west made dust pretty brutal in the stands. If you watched on Dirtvision it looked dust free but you literally could not look at turn 4 as they came by.
Devils Bowl just is not great for passing. Gravel moved up 6 spots on Friday night and that was pretty much it.
Could not make it Saturday night, but looked like a freight train on Dirtvision.
Will I go back in October.... you bet!
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April 02, 2023 at
10:51:10 AM
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Posted By: Dryslick Willie on April 02 2023 at 07:38:41 AM
Rod, I'm answering your first question as if you didn't see it but I'm guessing that you did see it. Truth be told I only saw the heats and have not seen the feature, but the big answer to your first question is NO! There wasn't any passing at Devils Bowl. The reason I can answer it is because there almost never is any passing there. I'm pretty sure at least one of the heats had the same finishing order as the starting order. The racing has always sucked at Devils Bowl. They've reshaped parts of the track a couple of times trying to improve it but nothing has worked. You wanna see racing at Devils Bowl? Take the wings off, that's the only way you'll ever see it.
I would add that the WoO format doesn't help at all. Let's take the quick timer, who's obviously the quickest car in the field, and start him on the pole of the heat race so he can run off and leave everybody. Yeah, that makes for great racing doesn't it? I'm just thankful that Knoxville has been smart enough not to allow the WoO to control the format for the Nationals. Later today I'll watch the feature from Devils Bowl last night. I hope I see some passing and some actual racing, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Good points...
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April 02, 2023 at
10:53:42 AM
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This proves, once again, that fast lap times do NOT = good racing, as a certain unnamed Hoser seems to think...
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April 02, 2023 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: Dryslick Willie on April 02 2023 at 07:38:41 AM
Rod, I'm answering your first question as if you didn't see it but I'm guessing that you did see it. Truth be told I only saw the heats and have not seen the feature, but the big answer to your first question is NO! There wasn't any passing at Devils Bowl. The reason I can answer it is because there almost never is any passing there. I'm pretty sure at least one of the heats had the same finishing order as the starting order. The racing has always sucked at Devils Bowl. They've reshaped parts of the track a couple of times trying to improve it but nothing has worked. You wanna see racing at Devils Bowl? Take the wings off, that's the only way you'll ever see it.
I would add that the WoO format doesn't help at all. Let's take the quick timer, who's obviously the quickest car in the field, and start him on the pole of the heat race so he can run off and leave everybody. Yeah, that makes for great racing doesn't it? I'm just thankful that Knoxville has been smart enough not to allow the WoO to control the format for the Nationals. Later today I'll watch the feature from Devils Bowl last night. I hope I see some passing and some actual racing, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Was the racing ever good there? I've been two or three times years ago, and I think I was just so excited to see the Outlaws I didn't notice a lack of passing. I do remember a prelim 20 lap feature where Sammy lapped up to second place and it was when the outlaws ran there without a wing. It was before a tire rule and he was the only one on Goodyears. But that tells me it's always been fast and narrow I guess...
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April 02, 2023 at
12:25:14 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Dryslick Willie on April 02 2023 at 07:38:41 AM
Rod, I'm answering your first question as if you didn't see it but I'm guessing that you did see it. Truth be told I only saw the heats and have not seen the feature, but the big answer to your first question is NO! There wasn't any passing at Devils Bowl. The reason I can answer it is because there almost never is any passing there. I'm pretty sure at least one of the heats had the same finishing order as the starting order. The racing has always sucked at Devils Bowl. They've reshaped parts of the track a couple of times trying to improve it but nothing has worked. You wanna see racing at Devils Bowl? Take the wings off, that's the only way you'll ever see it.
I would add that the WoO format doesn't help at all. Let's take the quick timer, who's obviously the quickest car in the field, and start him on the pole of the heat race so he can run off and leave everybody. Yeah, that makes for great racing doesn't it? I'm just thankful that Knoxville has been smart enough not to allow the WoO to control the format for the Nationals. Later today I'll watch the feature from Devils Bowl last night. I hope I see some passing and some actual racing, but I'm not holding my breath.
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You do make some good points. However, using any other format but the Outlaws would have given you the same race, and then the guy that actually earned the front row starting spot (by being fast when the cars hit the track) would have ended up 12th and the 12th fastest car would have won.................Once again with no passing. Not sure an invert format would have changed the optics of the race. It would have just screwed the car that was fastest. JMO
As for the Nationals, basically you have to look at the entire format as qualifying for the race. At the end of the day, when it comes feature time, the cars are lined up straight up-----according to who was the fastest up until that point. Yes, they invert on qualifying night, but drivers don't typically care about finishing position on that one, individual night. They care about points. When it's all said and done, the fastest cars from the week start up front on Saturday night too----no invert. I think the Nationals qualifying nights are the only races I support the bigger invert because it serves a greater purpose over 4 days. I hate the format of the King's Royal. Might as well flip a coin for starting spots. Seeing Sammy land his car on the pole a few years back, when he was clearly the 16-20th fastest car in the field, was a joke. (and I used to root for Sammy too) I was at Jackson on the night Paige Polyak won the 410 race. (My only visit to Jackson) Wet, heavy track. She was clearly not in the same class as Madsen, Dobmeier, Henderson, and Kaeding were MUCH faster than she was. It was cool to see her win, but the stupid 8 car invert put her on the pole for the feature, and they finished the way they started. Dumb. Madsen was the class of the field and finished 7th or 8th. If there's gonna be no passing, at least the car that was clearly the best should win the damned race. ???? Is that wrong to think that?
Otherwise, I do agree with you. Devil's Bowl hasn't produced a good Outlaw race that I can remember. I'm sure there have been some, but I haven't yet witnessed it.
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April 02, 2023 at
01:59:29 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: TforTexas on April 02 2023 at 10:55:06 AM
Was the racing ever good there? I've been two or three times years ago, and I think I was just so excited to see the Outlaws I didn't notice a lack of passing. I do remember a prelim 20 lap feature where Sammy lapped up to second place and it was when the outlaws ran there without a wing. It was before a tire rule and he was the only one on Goodyears. But that tells me it's always been fast and narrow I guess...
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That was my point about the wings. I've seen a few non-wing races there that were awesome way back when.
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April 02, 2023 at
02:01:59 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: egras on April 02 2023 at 12:25:14 PM
You do make some good points. However, using any other format but the Outlaws would have given you the same race, and then the guy that actually earned the front row starting spot (by being fast when the cars hit the track) would have ended up 12th and the 12th fastest car would have won.................Once again with no passing. Not sure an invert format would have changed the optics of the race. It would have just screwed the car that was fastest. JMO
As for the Nationals, basically you have to look at the entire format as qualifying for the race. At the end of the day, when it comes feature time, the cars are lined up straight up-----according to who was the fastest up until that point. Yes, they invert on qualifying night, but drivers don't typically care about finishing position on that one, individual night. They care about points. When it's all said and done, the fastest cars from the week start up front on Saturday night too----no invert. I think the Nationals qualifying nights are the only races I support the bigger invert because it serves a greater purpose over 4 days. I hate the format of the King's Royal. Might as well flip a coin for starting spots. Seeing Sammy land his car on the pole a few years back, when he was clearly the 16-20th fastest car in the field, was a joke. (and I used to root for Sammy too) I was at Jackson on the night Paige Polyak won the 410 race. (My only visit to Jackson) Wet, heavy track. She was clearly not in the same class as Madsen, Dobmeier, Henderson, and Kaeding were MUCH faster than she was. It was cool to see her win, but the stupid 8 car invert put her on the pole for the feature, and they finished the way they started. Dumb. Madsen was the class of the field and finished 7th or 8th. If there's gonna be no passing, at least the car that was clearly the best should win the damned race. ???? Is that wrong to think that?
Otherwise, I do agree with you. Devil's Bowl hasn't produced a good Outlaw race that I can remember. I'm sure there have been some, but I haven't yet witnessed it.
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You are correct about that Egras. The format probably wasn't a factor there. I just watched the feature and McFadden couldn't even put 21st place Brown a lap down. To have a chance at decent racing the Bowl has to slow down and last night was not that night for sure.
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April 02, 2023 at
03:04:30 PM
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Friday night race was good, Saturday night was as bad as they come in sprint car racing, but you'll have that sometimes. That race always draws extremely well so not surprised they are coming back again in the fall.
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April 02, 2023 at
04:08:43 PM
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That was a great example of a tacky track only producing follow the leader racing, it was terrible. After friday's show I expected them to water very little so that the track became racy. Boy was I wrong.
This new garbage tire Hoosier has shown up with is giving teams fits. Until teams get some notes your going to see teams struggle one night and be good the next.
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April 02, 2023 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: Dryslick Willie on April 02 2023 at 02:01:59 PM
You are correct about that Egras. The format probably wasn't a factor there. I just watched the feature and McFadden couldn't even put 21st place Brown a lap down. To have a chance at decent racing the Bowl has to slow down and last night was not that night for sure.
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My daughter moved from northern Illinois to within 45 minutes of Devil's Bowl. I keep trying to talk her into attending an Outlaw race when they roll through. Everytime I watch the race, I'm thankful she didn't waste her time..............
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April 02, 2023 at
07:11:51 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: alum.427 on April 02 2023 at 04:08:43 PM
That was a great example of a tacky track only producing follow the leader racing, it was terrible. After friday's show I expected them to water very little so that the track became racy. Boy was I wrong.
This new garbage tire Hoosier has shown up with is giving teams fits. Until teams get some notes your going to see teams struggle one night and be good the next.
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Yeah, and last week Schucart said that his team was still trying to figure things out with the new tire and that he didn't feel comfortable in the car yet. I bring that up because the OP was asking what's happened to the Shark boys. Seems like my boy Sheldon has been off a little too. Maybe things will improve for them soon.
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April 02, 2023 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on April 02 2023 at 10:53:42 AM
This proves, once again, that fast lap times do NOT = good racing, as a certain unnamed Hoser seems to think...
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At the beginning of the night the track should be super fast. Slowing down through the night. Not asphalt racing either. I watched the feature last night and it wasn't very good. However, give me that track over a hard, black, and dry track anyday. Your track should change a lot during the feature.....not be asphalt at the beginning of it.
Let's go Sprint Car Racing!
Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!
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April 02, 2023 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: BStrawser26 on April 02 2023 at 07:53:59 PM
At the beginning of the night the track should be super fast. Slowing down through the night. Not asphalt racing either. I watched the feature last night and it wasn't very good. However, give me that track over a hard, black, and dry track anyday. Your track should change a lot during the feature.....not be asphalt at the beginning of it.
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Can't you even be consistent? The way the track slows down during the night is by drying out and becoming slicker. Anybody who goes to dirt tracks understands that. When that happens, you then carry on about a slip n slide track. You can't have it both ways.
For what it's worth, it seemed like Devil's Bowl was trying to get a better track. They ran 2 support classes of fender cars- modifieds and stock cars. While those classes tend to be unloved by sprint car fans, they do tend to widen out, and dry out a dirt track.
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April 03, 2023 at
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This message was edited on
April 03, 2023 at
12:53:27 PM by egras
Reply to:
Posted By: BStrawser26 on April 02 2023 at 07:53:59 PM
At the beginning of the night the track should be super fast. Slowing down through the night. Not asphalt racing either. I watched the feature last night and it wasn't very good. However, give me that track over a hard, black, and dry track anyday. Your track should change a lot during the feature.....not be asphalt at the beginning of it.
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"give me that track over a hard, black, and dry track anyday"
Anyone who wants "that track" over anything else doesn't know what the hell they're talking about. I'd rather watch them on ice and so would the overwhelming majority. I'm not wowed by pure speed anymore like I was the first time I walked up to the fence and watched a car go by under green. Give me racing not hot laps.
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April 03, 2023 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: egras on April 03 2023 at 12:52:50 PM
"give me that track over a hard, black, and dry track anyday"
Anyone who wants "that track" over anything else doesn't know what the hell they're talking about. I'd rather watch them on ice and so would the overwhelming majority. I'm not wowed by pure speed anymore like I was the first time I walked up to the fence and watched a car go by under green. Give me racing not hot laps.
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Your response makes me think of the racing at Dodge County. The people I was with said "look how friggin fast they are" I said the same as you, I would rather see passing or racing than blazing speed, yet I continue to see a show or two a year there. Yes, that track is super fast, but boring as hell to the average 'race' fan. Maybe that will be a different story when the All Stars invade Dodge. That is another reason I do not watch qualifying at any track (except for the Nats), fast as hell, but has nothing to do with what we will see later on
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April 03, 2023 at
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Posted By: maddog53 on April 03 2023 at 01:31:51 PM
Your response makes me think of the racing at Dodge County. The people I was with said "look how friggin fast they are" I said the same as you, I would rather see passing or racing than blazing speed, yet I continue to see a show or two a year there. Yes, that track is super fast, but boring as hell to the average 'race' fan. Maybe that will be a different story when the All Stars invade Dodge. That is another reason I do not watch qualifying at any track (except for the Nats), fast as hell, but has nothing to do with what we will see later on
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Correct and correct.
Hopefully the All Stars will make it a better show at Dodge, but there will still be enough difference in the quality of cars from 1-20 that I think it will get spread out quick. (I've never been to a show there, just going off your past explanations of it)
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April 03, 2023 at
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I have been to Beaver Dam numerous times and have always had a great experience. (with the exception of 2018 when JJ had his accident)
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