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14.407 Sec. around Knoxville!!! That has to be flirting with 140+ mph wouldn't you think?

I believe 15.00 seconds is 120 mph (Average speed)

If you're talking average speed calculated by time around a 1/2 mile track its about 125 mph.     If you're talking speed at the end of a straight then yes it would be over 140 mph.

The lap time needed to avg 140 mph on a REAL half mile would be 12.85 seconds.

Madsen clicked off some 14.3's a few years ago in the 2 car on a practice night. The "Perfect Storm" of conditions roll around every couple of years.

It was McCarl who broke it on a qualifying night of Nationals.  Rained during heat races that night and they completely re-ran the night.  But McCarls record held because it was an official 1 lap time.  I think it got beaten by someone else prior to that infamous night a year later when most of the field set new records, with Tatnell ultimately setting the record where it stands now.

I wasn't there, but I remember my brother saying that someone like Bob Weuve came out 1st or 2nd and set a new record and that is when everyone said hold on, this is going to be crazy.

The thing about Brian's track record at Williams Grove that few know, it was not really the weight deal that has made the record so hard to touch. Yes, it was pre-weight rule...but Brian told Beerhill Gang TV earlier this year that at the time he was actually running a lot of R &D tires for Hoosier that he credits to that speed.

I was there that Sunday, it was cold, windy and dry, not the kind of track surface that you would think would be record breaking. The time just seemed unrealistic compared to other cars. Brian was running that car where no one else did thats for sure. Neat story about the tires Jay, that explains a little bit about what happened that day.

There were a few teams that claimed to be under the 1000 pound mark in the couple years before the weight rule kicked in. I saw 360's scaling at 1150, and even had one right at 1100 one year as they were scaling cars for some research the year before they set a weight rule. The 1100 pound car only made 2 laps in hot laps before his motor broke. The block cracked in several places as they removed too much material. The amount of money being spent on machining the blocks and heads down to save weight was crazy.

Doug Wolfgang asked Trostle several times to build him a frame of .065 steel.  Trostle finally gave in and built the frame.  When he got done he told Doug here is your frame, but you will  never get to race it.  He gave the frame to someone else on promise that they would never race it.

1995 Was the Joe Gaerte year. Wish I could find a picture because I was sure they did more than remove the radiator and nerf bars.

Joe Gaerte, driving Ed Ulyate’s #3DB J&J for only the third time, earned his first EcoWater Fast-Time Award of the year by circling Knoxville’s famous semi-banked, ½-mile oval in 15.807 seconds. Gaerte’s and crew chief Brian Sperry’s decision to remove the car’s radiator and nerf bars to make lighter paid off in qualifying. They weren’t as fortunate in the First Snap-On Tools Heat Race, however, as a first-lap collision with Lance Dewease knocked Gaerte out of the race. He came back to win the “C” Feature, but his 11th -place run in the “B” kept him out of the evening’s main event.

Results Time Trials (Qualifying Order): 1. 3DB, Joe Gaerte, Rochester, IN (39) 15.807; 2. 11, Steve Kinser, Bloomington, IN (13) 15.860; 3. 1x, Randy Hannagan, San Jose, CA (22) 15.902; 4. 5, Johnny Herrera, Tempe, AZ (32) 15.937; 5. 51, Tommie Estes Jr., Tulsa, OK (21) 15.965; 6. 461, Lance Dewease, Mont Alto, PA (40) 15.965; 7. 2, Andy Hillenburg, Broken Arrow, OK (45) 15.991; 8. 94, Dale Blaney, Hartford, OH (15) 16.001; 9. 47, Keith Kauffman, Mifflintown, PA (23) 16.019; 10. 10, Dave Blaney, Cortland, OH (36) 16.064; 11. 71m, Stevie Smith, New Oxford, PA (62) 16.068; 12. U2, Kenny Jacobs, Holmesville, OH (41) 16.115; 13. 9w, Gary Wright, Hooks, TX (11) 16.136; 14. 21, Steve Beitler, Sedro Woolley, WA (20) 16.157; 15. 55, Craig Dollansky, Elk River, MN (31) 16.167; 16. 1BK, Don Droud Jr., Lincoln, NE (19) 16.168; 17. 86, John Kearney, Ozawkie, KS (34) 16.225; 18. 1J, Brent Antill, Huxley, IA (55) 16.262; 19. 69K, Donnie Kreitz Jr., Sinking Spring, PA (64) 16.294; 20. 21L, Lance Blevins, Broken Arrow, OK (12) 16.304; 21. 10V, Skip Jackson, Sydney, NSW, Aust. (53) 16.323; 22. 1w, Jeff Shepard, Upperco, MD (68) 16.323; 23. 3c, Danie l Coggeshell, Milo, IA (44) 16.359; 24. 10T, Terry Gray, Memphis, TN (66) 16.361; 25. 23s, Frankie Kerr, Fremont, OH (10) 16.365; 26. 8TW, Greg Hodnett, Memphis, TN (60) 16.376; 27. 29v, Tim Baker, Sioux City, IA (29) 16.383; 28. 55H, Lyle Howey III, Brookings, SD (17) 16.396; 29. 45x, Rickey Hood, Booneville, IN (69) 16.399; 30. 7, Kevin Doty, Milan, IL (18) 16.408; 31. 19, Bob Weuve, Newton, IA (16) 16.426; 32. 21G, Mark Cassella, Weirton, WV (3) 16.438; 33. 8, Butch Hanssen, Sioux Falls, SD (14) 16.441; 34. 73, Tim Engler, Princeton, IN (2) 16.442; 35. 7mt, Jimmy Carr, Webster Grove, MO (5) 16.449; 36. 11K, Steve Kent, Fresno, CA (49) 16.471; 37. 7az, Rick Ziehl, Las Cruces, NM (26) 16.482; 38. 15, Donny Schatz, Minot, ND (6) 16.484; 39. 29N, Larry Neighbors, Oklahoma City, OK (8) 16.507; 40. 9s, Shane Stewart, Bixby, OK (47) 16.530; 41. 12, Dennis Moore Jr., Grinnell, IA (1) 16.539; 42. 2m, Tony Moro, Des Moines, IA (71) 16.548; 43. 3, Tim Lewis, Gas, KS (30) 16.562; 44. 3H, Brooke Tatnell, San Souci, NSW, Aust. (24) 16.580; 45. 25, Chad Radel, Sioux Falls, SD (63) 16.601; 46. 69B, Brent Kaeding, Campbell, CA (48) 16.615; 47. 18J, Danny Smith, Danville, IN (25) 16.623; 48. 15x, Dan Hamilton, Lindale, TX (33) 16.624; 49. 69R, Terry Reilly, Watertown, SD (57) 16.660; 50. 14m, Randy Martin, California, MO (50) 16.692; 51. 14, Doran Doty, Des Moines, IA (58) www.KnoxvilleRaceway.com Page 48 of 64 16.730; 52. D1, Dan Oswalt, Iola, KS (52) 16.734; 53. 3B, Max Dumesny, Sydney, NSW, Aust. (38) 16.742; 54. 22N, Bo Baker, Grants, NM (7) 16.773; 55. 57c, Troy Parsons, Altoona, IA (56) 16.781; 56. 9, Rich Bubak, Golden, CO (9) 16.811; 57. 62, Rod Holliday, Springfield, IL (4) 16.851; 58. 83, Rod Henderson, Beresford, SD (27) 16.888; 59. 8B, John Bankston, Beaumont, TX (61) 16.905; 60. 69, Mark Smyser, Lancaster, MO (70) 16.928; 61. 51m, Jim Melis, Plymouth, WI (51) 16.953; 62. 7A, Todd Taeger, Burlington, IA (42) 16.959; 63. 2x, Shawn Moore, Moline, IL (67) 17.030; 64. 26, Rich Brahmer, Wisner, NE (28) 17.031; 65. 98x, Eric Rossi, Gilroy, CA (35) 17.143; 66. 7H, John Hall, Marion, IA (37) 17.162; 67. 9z, Rick Haas, Lincoln, NE (54) 17.180; 68. 51D, Doug Martens, Wentworth, SD (43) 17.204; 69. 2H, Wayne Redmond, Fort Dodge, IA (72) 17.225; 70. 65, Danny Jennings, Oklahoma City, OK (59) 17.722; 71. 11A, Archie Ergenbright, Newton, IA (73) 17.944; 72. 61J, Earnest Jennings, Norman, OK (65) 17.950; 73. 7s, Travis Whitney, Brooklyn Park, MN

I cringe at every time trial show at the Grove because Bruce has to go into his pre-weight limit and post-weight limit monologue. If you only go occassionally I'm sure hearing it doesn't matter to you but when you go every week especially over a number of years, it's tiresome. Sometimes I wish somebody would break the pre-weight limit record just so it would eliminate the whole pre and post conversation. I'm hearing talk that the weight limit may be increased next year.  If that happens it may change up his spiel but let's hope it doesn't make it longer.  

In the end, which is more important- absolute speed, or side by side racing?

He also said that Greg Hodnett came up to him after and told him "I think that record was bullshit" and Brian thought he was talking about the time being incorrect due to the scoring errors many claimed. But Greg told him "No, you were actually going faster". Said they clocked him on top the trailer faster then the record actually said.

Depends who you ask on this board. 98% would pick the latter of the two, but I can think of a couple who seem to enjoy the former. 

After I read this I wondered how long it would take before somebody took a swing at that softball. Clearly not long. Lol

My report from May 6, 2006...

5/6/06

Knoxville Raceway

46 410s
41 360s

410s

Words cannot describe how fast the track was.  Unprecedented record breaking feats were the norm as drivers travelled at speeds never reached at Knoxville.  26 of 46 drivers registered times under Terry McCarl's track record of 14.907 seconds.  Driver after driver lowered the standard, but it was Brooke Tatnell (30th car out to time) that set the mesmerizing new mark of 14.407 seconds, cutting exactly half a second off the old mark.  Jason Meyers (31st car out) was second quick, followed by Jason Solwold (35th), Chris Walraven (7th), Stevie Smith (33rd), Billy Alley (13th), Tyler Walker (32nd), Randy Hannagan (26th), Terry McCarl (21st) and Danny Lasoski (10th).  In all, 18 "visitors" made the trip to Knoxville with a NST night off and a WoO rainout in Wichita.  The Dunkin family needs to be commended for a perfect surface resulting in spectacular features and side by side racing at high speeds throughout the night.

Heat one (started): 1. Mark Dobmeier 13 (2) 2. Craig Dollansky 7 (4) 3. Tim Shaffer 6 (1) 4. Tatnell 8 (6) / 5. Chad Kemenah 15K (3) 6. Alley 17G (5) 7. Matt Moro 47 (7) 8. Larry Ball Jr. 5J (9) 9. Dave Saffell 03 (10) 10. Bill Rose 6x (8)

Five eight lap heats had an invert of six and took four to the A.  Dobmeier held off the big dogs from start to finish.  Tatnell hit the cushion to blast around Kemenah early and land a transfer.  Rose exited on lap two, Saffell on lap five.

Heat two (started): 1. Kerry Madsen 55 (2) 2. Skip Jackson 2 (1) 3. Brian Brown 21 (3) 4. Walker 5 (5) / 5. Meyers 14 (6) 6. Ryan Anderson 71R (8) 7. Jesse Giannetto D1 (7) 8. Jason Martin 36 (9) 9. Becca Anderson 19 (4)

Madsen dusted the field from the beginning setting an 8 lap record at 2:01.8, a record that would last one race.  B. Anderson avoided disaster after getting out of the groove on lap one.  Meyers challenged a high flying Walker working the low side to Walker's high, coming up short of a transfer at the line.

Heat three (started): 1. Joey Saldana 9E (2) 2. Solwold R19 (6) 3. Calvin Landis 70 (4) 4. Hannagan 1x (5) / 5. Dusty Zomer 1z (1) 6. Kaley Gharst 44G (7) 7. Mike Moore 69 (8) 8. Greg Jones 3J (9) 9. Lynton Jeffrey 12 (3)

Saldana took another second of the 8 lap record at 2:00.6 (shaving almost 3 seconds off the year old record of Walraven - 2:03.2).  Zomer was game for a transfer but Hannagan worked the bottom of turns one and two to gain the final ticket to the A on the last go-around.  Solwold was very impressive on lap one, looping Landis to move into third, and then surging to second.

Heat four (started): 1. Clint Garner 40 (1) 2. Tony Bruce Jr. 18 (2) 3. Shane Stewart 26 (3) 4. McCarl 24 (5) / 5. Trevor Green 11AU (7) 6. Tim St. Arnold 7w (4) 7. Walraven 56 (6) 8. Rager Phillips 9 (8) 9. Tony Shilling 47T (9)

Garner led flag to flag in a mostly single-file affair.  McCarl worked under St. Arnold at the mid-way point to gain the final transfer.  Bruce, usually in a 360, ran a steady race in second.

Heat five (started): 1. Daryn Pittman 21T (1) 2. Wayne Johnson 10 (2) 3. Lasoski 83 (5) 4. Smith 19s (6) / 5. Bronson Maeschen 96 (4) 6. Jerrel Slinkard 15s (3) 7. Chad Meyer 1w (7) 8. Gordy Vogelaar 1A (8) 9. Tyler Houseman 50 (9)

Pittman led the duration, while it was all Johnson could do to hold off Lasoski.  He did so in a steady manner.  Smith managed to put away a persistent Maeschen, who is exhibiting a short learning curve in the 410s.

C main (started): 1. R. Anderson (1) 2. Moore (2) 3. Martin (6) / 4. Phillips (3) 5. Vogelaar (4) 6. Saffell (9) 7. Shilling (8) 8. Houseman (7) 9. Ball (5) DNS - Jones

R. Anderson dominated this 10 lapper after a lap two pass of Moore.  Saffell brought out the lone yellow with a lap two stoppage.  Ball, Houseman and Shilling exited early.  Martin was strong in gaining what would be the final transfer.

B main (started): 1. Meyers (1) 2. Alley (3) 3. Kemenah (7) 4. Walraven (2) / 5. Zomer (8) 6. Meyer (15) 7. St. Arnold (5) 8. Martin (18) 9. Moro (11) 10. Gharst (13) 11. Green (12) 12. B. Anderson (4) 13. R. Anderson (17) 14. Maeschen (6) 15. Moore (16) 16. Slinkard (9) 17. Rose (14) 18. Giannetto (10) DNS - Jeffrey

Meyers led flag to flag holding off a high-wire act from Alley in a duel for the lead.  Meyers shaved almost 2 seconds off of a 10 year old Andy Hillenburg 12 lap record, flying in with a time of 3:14.1.  Kemenah found the low side to his liking and moving into fourth by lap four.  He would also get by Walraven to finish third.  Meyer was also on the move from 15th to sixth.  Zomer's late bid to catch Walraven came up short.

A main (started): 1. Lasoski (6) 2. McCarl (7) 3. Brown (3) 4. Dollansky (5) 5. Stewart (2) 6. Tatnell (12) 7. Walker (9) 8. Saldana (14) 9. Solwold (11) 10. Dobmeier (1) 11. Smith (10) 12. Johnson (16) 13. Hannagan (8) 14. Shaffer (17) 15. Meyers (21) 16. Alley (22) 17. Pittman (20) 18. Madsen (13) 19. Jackson (18) 20. Garner (19) 21. Landis (4) 22. Bruce (15) 23. Walraven (24) 24. Kemenah (23)

The invert was 12 for the 20 lapper.  Stewart grabbed an early lead.  Lasoski had a tremendous jump on the high side and circled around Stewart at the conclusion of lap 2.  He then headed to the bottom of turns one and two and pulled away.  McCarl was the next mover slicing through and getting by Stewart around the midway point.  On lap 12, he started reeling in Lasoski, poking his nose under on lap 13.  McCarl looked like he might make a winning pass, but on lap 15, Bruce stopped in turn two bringing a yellow.  Lasoski led McCarl, Stewart, Brown and Dollansky back to green flag racing.  Lasoski switched to the faster high line in turns one and two after the restart and pulled away.  Brown shot under Stewart and carried the flag for the local contingent in third.  Dollansky got by Stewart on the final circuit to grab fourth.  The track was fast but wide enough for some great racing action, and both features provided great action at high speed.  It left this fan wanting more.

360s

Heat one (started, *qualified for feature): 1. Jake Peters 57x (1*) 2. Jeff Mitrisin 10 (8*) 3. Tyler Thompson 2T (2*) 4. Rick Ideus 5B (3*) 5. John Schulz 2 (7*) 6. Tom Lenz 8L (6) 7. Alan Gilbertson 97 (4) 8. Adam Mason B29 (5) 9. Nate Mosher 22N (9) 10. Jerry Crabb 12x (11) 11. John Anderson 4G (10)

Peters destroyed the field with a short-lived 7 lap record of 1:51.5.  Mitrisin dispelled the myth that there would be no passing on the heaviest track in memory by shooting six spots forward.  Anderson 4G bowed out early with fuel link problems.

Heat two (started, *qualified for feature): 1. Mitchell Alexander 6 (1*) 2. Brett Mather 54 (3*) 3. Dustin Selvage 7 (2*) 4. Curtis Thorson 00 (4) 5. Troy Meyer 11m (6) 6. Mike Houseman Jr. Y5 (7) 7. Pete Crall 11 (8) 8. Chuck Swenson X (5) 9. Dave Hall 51 (10) 10. Jon Corbin 33c (9)

Swenson, the winner of the opener, checked up and spun behind another car on the first lap.  He restarted at the tail.  M. Alexander held off the repeated efforts of Mather who was knocking on the door.  Thorson subbed for Stevie Walsh, who was suffering from food poisoning.

Heat three (started, *qualified for feature): 1. Dustin Lindquist 55L (2*) 2. Nate Van Haaften 3 (1*) 3. John Kearney 83 (8*) 4. Johnny Anderson 7a (7*) 5. Stacey Alexander 2Tx (6) 6. Frankie Heimbaugh 04 (3) 7. Davey Heskin 56 (10) 8. Ray Allen Kulhanek 41 (9) 9. Terry Alexander 77 (4) DNS - Brett Golik 5G (5)

Lindquist shaved the 7 lap mark another second with a clocking of 1:50.6, taking almost 3 seconds of John Kearney's year-old mark and winning by nearly 1/2 a lap.  This heat was a stout one.  Kearney went high to move around Anderson and S. Alexander on the first go-around, putting himself in third.  J. Anderson 7a moved up nicely as well.  T. Alexander exited on lap five.  Kulhanek, the 2005 ASCS Gulf South champ was mired in the rear behind some stiff competition.  Rain at home spurred him to tow 15 1/2 hours to Knoxville.

Heat four (started, *qualified for feature): 1. Josh Schneiderman 49 (1*) 2. Josh Higday 24 (2*) 3. Eric Jobe 23 (3*) 4. Joe Beaver (8*) 5. Alan Zoutte 33 (4) 6. Tim Newman 18 (6) 7. Rod Richards 5 (5) 8. David Langford 32L (7) 9. Ken Klabunde 28 (9) 10. Danny Heskin 65 (10)

Schneiderman led flag to flag.  Beaver moved up nicely from the fourth row to earn a transfer.  Langford went up in smoke after crossing the finish line.

C main (started): 1. Mosher (2) 2. Hall (1) / 3. Corbin (6) 4. Klabunde (4) 5. T. Alexander (3) 6. Danny Heskin (5) 7. Anderson 4G (7) DNS - Crabb

Mosher led throughout.  Anderson 4G ducked out on lap two.

B main (started): 1. S. Alexander (3) 2. Houseman Jr. (5) 3. Newman (9) 4. Swenson (14) / 5. Zoutte (4) 6. Heimbaugh (8) 7. Lenz (7) 8. Crall (10) 9. Mosher (17) 10. Gilbertson (11) 11. A. Mason (13) 12. Kulhanek (15) 13. Davey Heskin (6) 14. Thorson (1) 15. Meyer (2) 16. Richards (12) 17. Langford (16) 18. Hall (18)

Hall got over the berm in turn one and tipped over on the initial green.  Thorson shot out to an early advantage in the 10 lapper.  S. Alexander was working the low side and got under the leader on lap six.  Swenson had moved up to seventh from row seven, when Thorson, who was running second spun and tipped over in front of Meyer, who was collected.  The incident eliminated the two machines and put Swenson in fifth behind Zoutte for the restart.  Swenson was able to move by Zoutte on the last lap for the transfer.  S. Alexander won by a comfortable margin ahead of steady Houseman Jr. and Newman.

A main (started): 1. Higday (2) 2. Beaver (3) 3. Lindquist (11) 4. Mitrisin (12) 5. Peters (9) 6. Kearney (8) 7. Mather (4) 8. Anderson 7a (12) 9. Selvage (1) 10. Schneiderman (7) 11. S. Alexander (17) 12. Schulz (14) 13. Ideus (15) 14. M. Alexander (6) 15. Jobe (13) 16. Houseman Jr. (16) 17. Thompson (20) 18. Van Haaften (5) 19. Newman (19) 20. Swenson (18)

Swenson spun and made heavy contact with the wall before a lap could be completed.  The rookie, Thompson, was slated for a starting spot outside row one, but elected for the tail.  The move gave Higday a front row starting spot and he took full advantage leading early.  On lap five, a resurgent Selvage shot around Higday, showing him the fast way around.  Higday looked to hit another gear as he got back by and led the rest of the distance.  Beaver was fast as well following Higday past Selvage and making a bid or two for the lead, but it was all for naught as Higday captured Knoxville win #9.  Lindquist and Mitrisin came on late to impress and earn hard-charger honors. 

If this post isn't results, stories or something c
constructive, it isn't me! 
@BillWMedia
www.OpenWheel101.com

I'm not sure I understand the question. Am I the one pitching or the one swinging?

Did we not have some wing specs changed since then also? I was thinking maybe they could run dished wings with large wickerbills for a while then things changed. Does anyone know? 

It's all about the tires.