Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Here's some exciting news from Steve Lang, Fred Summers and Allard Racing Engines regarding the LS2 engine build-up project. The plan is to have this engine in a car testing next month.

Claud Estes III has been really stout in his Allard LS2 engine in Sprint Car Bandits competition this season as well.

Please read on for the 411 and we look forward to seeing you all at KENNEDALE SPEEDWAY PARK for the next Sprint Car Bandits event on September 26th.

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Hi everyone!

Well after more than a few delays on my part as well as trying to actually getting parts shipped in the covid 19 era we are getting close to getting our project LS on the dyno. It's looking good and we hope to get it in the car and shake it down in the next 3 or 4 weeks.

I also plan to post a complete brake down of all the parts, vendors & prices and costs to complete this build. We will also post our dyno numbers as well.

I still believe the LS platform is going to be the future of sprint car engines as they are already growing like crazy in some parts of the country. Our goal of building engines that make good HP with fantastic reliability for less $$ continues to be our goal.

Also a big shout out to Fred Summers for providing the financial support for this project and for all he does for 360 sprint car racing!

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The goal with this engine project is quite direct: sustainability.

If this engine platform continues to show signs of being a viable solution, paired with the existing Sprint Car Bandits rules package (regarding wing angle, rear tires, weight) yet does not decrease engine performance – and costs teams a fraction of the price of many of the engines that teams are presently using, the net result to the race team would be a significant cost savings…resulting in building upon the Sprint Car Bandits series goal of making sprint car racing more sustainable – without sacrificing performance or decreasing the quality of racing for race fans.

> the 74e in the above video has his Sprint Car Bandits LS2 engine under the hood. 

Good looking motor. So it is an LS with a bore and some reasonably priced parts and it makes 600 HP that can last a long time. Oh, and you can buy 5 of them for the cost of a competitive big track 360. The horror! 

You are correct Michael N.  This engine features the following components:

• LS 5.3L pickup truck engine platform (steel block, stock aluminum heads)
• Stock aluminum heads w/light cleanup to improve flow
• Stock crank and rods
• Aftermarket flat top pistons
• MSD ignition control with stock coil packs
• Mechanical throttle body injection

The goal of this project is not to duplicate existing engine combinations but rather to offer an affordable, yet very competitive alternative. This LS recipe costs significantly less than other current engine platforms (as you already know). Yet, all current engine platforms will continue to be legal in Sprint Car Bandits competition.

Plus, aftermarket parts are readily available – and at very reasonable prices.

Keeping in mind the ‘Bandits wing angle and tire rules have already created an environment where race teams of all sizes can compete for wins. With that said, we feel this LS package, when combined with our car rules, will offer affordability, driveability, and the ultimate in performance.

And so far, there's no question that right out of the box, Claud's engine can hold its own with other higher priced engines (as shown in the video clip in this post).

Again, most naturally aspirated engine combinations that feature a steel block, aluminum heads, and do not exceed 360 cubic inches, will still be legal when racing with the Bandits series, as in the past 4 years. But all non-typical engine combinations must be pre-approved…as has been the case all along. In other words for example, if you choose to configure a 6.0L LS, you will just need to make sure it still fits within the confines of the rules at the beginning of this paragraph.

Awesome information. So this motor made around 300 HP on pump gas i think. It makes around 400 HP with a 450 CFM alcohol carb, around 480 HP with a 750 CFM carb and 600 HP with some minor head work, pistons and mechanical throttle body injection. 

Tipping those wings back is such a simple no-brainer. What sort of resistance have you come across with your wing and tire rules? I would suspect that big time "outlaw" 360 teams may not be interested in running rules that reduce the advantage a high dollar motor may have. 

With winged 360 racing on it's death bed in some parts of the country(due to the cost), you would think that more 360 sanctions and tracks around the country would be trying stuff like this to reduce costs and increase competition and car counts. Instead, I guess we'd rather just downsize to 305's and move on. 

A

Whats the cost of this engine?

Hi Michael,

Regarding resistance, here in Texas it's no longer an issue as the drivers see the end result after racing our rules with the Sprint Car Bandits: more money in their pocket at the end of the night due to a solid paying purse and less use of consumables.

We've had a multitude of 'national' drivers race with us from Day 1 (pushing 5 years ago) and I've yet to hear one of the utter a compaint after racing with us. Most comment: "this is the most fun I've had racing a sprint car in a long time."

Tim Crawley doesn't get to race with us much but his exact quote to me was: "I can set up a sprint car and race a car with these rules." And he was referencing that from his experience it gives him a bit of an edge over drivers that haven't.

Several teams that hadn't raced with us in the past were concerned that our 'one rear tire all night long' rule would cause them problems - but in actuality - they all end up finding out that they've been drinking the wrong kool aid all these years and that when paired with our wing angle rule and weight rule, they didn't have to put on fresh rubber to complete the night. And it actually makes set up more interesting as a driver knows they have to get through the whole night.

But when you add up all of these simple and literally free changes to the cars, it makes for highly competitive racing that spans across a wide range of team budgets and tons of passing all night long.

It absolutely helps equalize the playing field in the engine compartment - which has all led to this LS2 project. And when you see the 74e car in the above video, you can clearly see he isn't missing anything under the hood racing with the other teams. 

So this is yet another step in the right direction for teams in our effort to help make sprint car racing more sustainable in the future. So far, so good!

up here in the northeast big block modified territory some tracks are allowing big small blocks with the wide bore being the main choice. the big 440 steel small blocks make the same power as a big block and cost is about the same $50-55k cost advantage being 125lbs less weight. some tracks make you add 100lbs more than a big block.

essentially a super late model engine with a steel block

then you have several guys building 440 LS engines roughly same horsepower 850-900 but cost 15k less than a big block or a big small block . one builder has built around 40 of the LS engines with only 2 failures.... a water pump belt came off causing an overheated engine and an oil pump belt came that caused loss of oil pressure

the dart LS next block has the advantage of 6 bolt main caps and 6 head bolts surrounding each cylinder.

the drag racing community has embraced them because a factory take out with a totaly stock bottom end a cam change and either a supercharger or Turbo they live while making 1000+ hp 

By digging down on the links in the first post I find the following information. Why downsize to a 305, don't some of them cost over 20K?

this is a 5.3 bored out to 5.7 engine rule max 363 so 6.0 is out. 799 heads should make around 600 HP in the $7500 range and last a long time.

HC- your comment about 'you would think' is exactly the point. 

Things in this sport move at a glacial pace. 

Typically in the $8,000 range +/- .

Which, when you turn back the clock bridges a huge gap in economic terms to help make a quality level of sprint car racing more sustainable.

Again it's up to the racers, tracks and series to decide if they're more concerned about the future - or just getting by for the moment.  

Darin, you mention that Claud had no problems with hp in the video from Waco.   I am curious about bigger tracks though, since I know you guys race on some 3/8 mile tracks.   Can he still hang with them on a tacky track that's bigger?    Just curious.   

DSW- howdy!

Yes, 82 Speedway is a good rule of thumb for high-speed momentum and he's good there too. 

it really is about our rules package, setup and driver in the Sprint Car Bandits. 

And it's not uncommon in our series for a good 305 team to have success - like what happened earlier this season at 82 when Chad Wilson caught and passed Channin Tankersley for the $2,000 win. Chad was just a tick better that night. 

So it's pretty cool really!

We have a solution for the 6.0 for 2021 that we'll be unveiling next month or at least by October...stay tuned!

Good stuff, MF. Glad it's making a difference there too.  

56 UMSS and it's Renegade brand of sprint cars on the track last Saturday at three different facilities. Most of them are LS based with a few small blocks also competing. Big two day show at Cedar Lake this weekend, I'll try to get more accurate info.