Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

So, I am not on here to complain about all the different formats in our sport. Arguably, a lot of the things in our sport come down to a blind draw. Whether it be your position in a heat race or your turn to go out for time trials, a lot of it is based on draw for most teams to be successful. 

Then you have inverts during time trial events..we can argue inverts all we want, but thats not what I am here to do today. 

What I am getting at is all the different series, tracks and big events have different formats. Kind of like how some things are different in college football vs high school football vs NFL. 

What bothers me about the different formats is they aren't communicated to the fans very well most of the time. This year Knoxville started using points to line up their heats accumulated through the night instead of transfer spots and time. Now this change is fine, if I understood that finishing 4th in a heat race is now meaningless outside of its point value. 

Not to gripe about Knoxville, but they do a great job telling us the points and formats for Nationals through social media, and used to through Dirt Digest and fliers in the DM Register. But how hard is it at a weekly show to explain how the lineup was made for the A?

I went to PA Speedweek last year and printed out their format from the website...it was great knowing that information whenever my group had questions. They either asked me or looked at the printed copy of the format. 

I bet its confusing for people who only go to their track, the track inverts heats and all the sudden the Outlaws show up and the fast guys are in the front or the All-Stars show up and they are qualifying in groups.

You also as the announcer might feel like your repeating yourself constantly, but you probably should. Announcers will start explaining things over the PA system....then a car drives by the front stretch and I missed anything that was just said. I think Gibson does a pretty good job for the dirtvision listeners/viewers...but I am not sure people in the stands always catch what was being said due to the atmosphere of a live, in-person event.

I follow a lot of different races, its frustrating not knowing each exact format when someone could jus tell me over the PA, or you could print it and sell it for $1 in a program. But if it's frustrating for me, how do you think first timers feel when they show up. They don't know the drivers or cars, and they don't understand why cars are lining up in specific places. Having just brought my gf to races, I could say...the fast cars are in row 2 and she knew to watch them. She had me to rely on for information. I don't think it helps with return customers if all they get to see is fast cars and wrecks...understanding what is going on behind the scenes would probably help build the fan base.

Just my 2 cents, sorry it was a long post...there is a lot to unfold here. I could be in the minority of this opinion as well. I definately don't think it's an announcer issue solely...I think the tracks/promotions could do small things to help people understand what is happening.

You do make a good point.  As you said, Knoxville and I also believe the WoO does a great job of explaining the line up procedures-----whether it be on their website or during the evening over the PA.  However, it used to drive me nuts at my local track when no one had a clue how the lineups were done and the announcer never explained it.  I even went to the ticket office and asked for a copy of the format and they had no idea what I was talking about. 

For what it's worth, it's neat to see different formats but I still think Knoxville has it nailed for Nationals format and the WoO has it nailed for nightly shows.  But I'll watch any format and sit back and enjoy the show

I think this is one of the reasons the ASCS "passing point" format never took off. You have to wait until they line the A main up before the start to know who is starting where. The diehards have a good idea that "driver A passed 3 cars in heat 2, so he should be up front" but even I have trouble keeping up, let alone a casual fan who goes a few times per year.

Yeah, honestly I have very few problems with the different formats...just the communication of formats. WoO nightly format makes sense...rewarding fast cars and letting them start up front. Knoxville's format for the Nationals is trying to reward the most consistently fast cars, both of which work for their individual events. Although, someone who goes to Kville for Outlaw shows and not Nationals who decided to attend this weekend might be confused on the format this weekend if they didn't see the article posted a week or two ago.

Yeah, even with passing points if there are 5-6 heats, it is tough to keep track and trying to figure out of the guys who drew the front row are getting enough points for their heat race win differs based on the amount of passing points being handed out. It is tough for me who knows who most of the drivers are and the cars they are driving....but for a first timer it has to be tough.  I think this is why I don't take to modifieds and late models much...just not entirely familiar with who the drivers/cars are.

All-Star Format

Thanks, I know the All-Star format, but does everyone who buys a ticket know it? And, would a lot of them like to know it?

For what it's worth, the team at KNIA-KRLS (local Knoxville-Pella radio station that does a 5-6 PM CST pre-race show and then flag to flag coverage during the races) tries to educate and inform fans (that are listening) about the format the races that night will use, tidbits about that format, etc.  I totally agree that it can be confusing to the fan in the stands (or watching online) what's going on if nobody explains it.  

Yes, I listen to them every week I can. I agree they do a great job. It would help if race fans visiting Knoxville knew that existed as most places don't offer that service.

No question, they could do a better job explaining formats!

I'll go one further and add just simply having the Order of Events posted on Social Media channels.  I've been watching a ton of streaming and sometimes can't find the order of events for the evening.  Outlaws do a great job but other tracks it can be hit and miss.  Some for PA Speedweek I found easily others not at all.  Even if you have to take a pic of a printed piece of paper, post it! 

I believe Knoxville has done the combined time trial and heat race points format for the last couple years, it was the format the NSL used, but they don't really even explain the format or mention it weekly.  I don't like it persoanlly, I'm not a fan of the points and passing point formats, I like to know exactly what my driver has to do to get into the feature or the dash. 

I think Johnny and Tony do a great job during the Nationals at explaining the format throughout the night, I also think Johnny does a great job all year, whether it be a nightly with the outlaw format or a a special like the Kings Royal or Jackson Nationals.

Also think Blake Anderson deserves a shout out.  I watch a lot of All Star races on Flo and he does a very good job during time trials and heats races with their format.  In time trials I hear him update each heat race inversion and once the whole group goes, usually give you the first couple rows and during heats he is mentioning who was quickest in the group and where they have to finish to make the dash and then during the race rundown, always mentions which two drivers qulify for the dash redraw. 

I'm not a huge fan of the formats (like Knoxville's former NSL format) that uses a combination of time trial and heat points to set the feature lineup for the same reasons you named... have to be scoring along and use a calculator.  The only positive thing of that format is that nobody can accuse any of the drivers of sandbagging in time trials... and if you are one of the fast guys and do well in your heat, you're generally rewarded. 

I've been trying to get Knoxville to add a section to the mobile app exclusives (in addition to National points) for local shows... where it keeps a running tally of the points after each event.  Apparently there is additional programming needed for that... and they haven't put in the time/money to make it happen (yet).  I'll keep working on them.  

You should never need a calculator to figure out where a driver will be starting any race.

Smartest comment from someone in this Forum from somebody in PA ths year....

Agree 100%. You should know by finishing position in the heat race/B main who made the A and who did not IMO. I don't care for any format that involves points and/or double heats....at least not for single night shows. 

I've also noticed the last couple years in PA, that most track announcers don't even bother to explain the qualifying formats. That's a pet peave to me. Let the fans know what's up!

A

Your local track must be Huset's

I never could figure out how they lined up the features when the Rubins had it.  Didn't seem like anyone knew.