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Topic: Keith Kauffman Tribute??? Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 1 of 2   of  26 replies
railfan33
August 31, 2019 at 10:22:48 AM
Joined: 07/24/2010
Posts: 637
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Feel kinda bad for Keith. 20 cars show up (only 18 started) for a tribute to one of the areas all time great drivers, not to mention $4777 to win! If Brownie and Eric Riggens plus a couple of regulars aren’t in the pits, fans are looking at an A-main starting 14 cars. Wow, I may be an alarmist,  but really getting concerned about the future of the Grove and 410 team support.

Only 21 for the URC portion as well. Not a good showing!

 

 

 




WingedSpeed
August 31, 2019 at 11:05:22 AM
Joined: 06/25/2017
Posts: 606
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Reply to:
Posted By: railfan33 on August 31 2019 at 10:22:48 AM

Feel kinda bad for Keith. 20 cars show up (only 18 started) for a tribute to one of the areas all time great drivers, not to mention $4777 to win! If Brownie and Eric Riggens plus a couple of regulars aren’t in the pits, fans are looking at an A-main starting 14 cars. Wow, I may be an alarmist,  but really getting concerned about the future of the Grove and 410 team support.

Only 21 for the URC portion as well. Not a good showing!

 

 

 



My thoughts exactly.  It was great seeing the restored K33 there.  Yes you would think more of the local drivers and teams would have showed up out of respect.  But then again I know a couple of them don't have or show respect.  Thought the racing surface was pretty nice.  I personally thanked Brian Brown for coming east again this year.  He said sure thing man.  Would love to see him kick some ass at the Tusc 50.



chilly
August 31, 2019 at 11:11:49 AM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 975
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Posted By: WingedSpeed on August 31 2019 at 11:05:22 AM

My thoughts exactly.  It was great seeing the restored K33 there.  Yes you would think more of the local drivers and teams would have showed up out of respect.  But then again I know a couple of them don't have or show respect.  Thought the racing surface was pretty nice.  I personally thanked Brian Brown for coming east again this year.  He said sure thing man.  Would love to see him kick some ass at the Tusc 50.



Brown prob can’t afford NOT to tow east.  T-shirt $$$ likely pays for the trip & then some.  What he does on the track is icing on the cake. 




beezr2002
August 31, 2019 at 11:37:03 AM
Joined: 04/21/2017
Posts: 1116
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Time to shorten the single file half mile, but keep the bridge.



frebyrd
August 31, 2019 at 12:35:50 PM
Joined: 07/07/2012
Posts: 90
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Posted By: beezr2002 on August 31 2019 at 11:37:03 AM

Time to shorten the single file half mile, but keep the bridge.



Grove was my fav track for 40yrs, use to be all the top cars there on a fri night,  They actually had to race hard in heats to just make show. With handicapping all but gone and time trials most weeks,. i quit going this year, SAD.Not interesred in seeing the best guys start up front and lead every lap, Day of the upset pretty much gone.



WingedSpeed
August 31, 2019 at 12:49:59 PM
Joined: 06/25/2017
Posts: 606
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Posted By: frebyrd on August 31 2019 at 12:35:50 PM

Grove was my fav track for 40yrs, use to be all the top cars there on a fri night,  They actually had to race hard in heats to just make show. With handicapping all but gone and time trials most weeks,. i quit going this year, SAD.Not interesred in seeing the best guys start up front and lead every lap, Day of the upset pretty much gone.



Yes I hate non-handicapped shows.  Like Kauffman said last night many of his wins came from starting 16th.  Like the old days a Port when the heats and features were lined up by points.  Point leader started no better than 12th.  Also gave the little, small funded teams a chance.




willf270
MyWebsite
August 31, 2019 at 02:49:07 PM
Joined: 03/26/2014
Posts: 130
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Reply to:
Posted By: railfan33 on August 31 2019 at 10:22:48 AM

Feel kinda bad for Keith. 20 cars show up (only 18 started) for a tribute to one of the areas all time great drivers, not to mention $4777 to win! If Brownie and Eric Riggens plus a couple of regulars aren’t in the pits, fans are looking at an A-main starting 14 cars. Wow, I may be an alarmist,  but really getting concerned about the future of the Grove and 410 team support.

Only 21 for the URC portion as well. Not a good showing!

 

 

 



Time people realize the Grove is not what it once was. Been falling off last 3-4 yrs. Dont know if its ownership or what, but cant keep going on sentiment and 6 WOO shows for ever.



railfan33
August 31, 2019 at 03:38:35 PM
Joined: 07/24/2010
Posts: 637
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Posted By: willf270 on August 31 2019 at 02:49:07 PM

Time people realize the Grove is not what it once was. Been falling off last 3-4 yrs. Dont know if its ownership or what, but cant keep going on sentiment and 6 WOO shows for ever.



Any thoughts on solutions? Is it totally mgmt fault? Relying solely on past reputation? Not enough PR? Fewer teams with deep pockets and only racing once a week. Less interest in racing period and spending more time with family?

 I think there were 32 cars at Port and 24 at the last Lincoln weekly show. That’s 56 410’s. You’d think the Grove could draw at least half those teams for a $4777 to win show. 



alum.427
August 31, 2019 at 04:25:52 PM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 1599
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Lack of cars

To many options on Saturday night.

Most of these guys today never turned a lap with KK

Today's format sucks, but the top guys love it. 

6 woo shows is not a bad thing, the place gets packed, watch the national open




willf270
MyWebsite
August 31, 2019 at 05:46:04 PM
Joined: 03/26/2014
Posts: 130
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Posted By: railfan33 on August 31 2019 at 03:38:35 PM

Any thoughts on solutions? Is it totally mgmt fault? Relying solely on past reputation? Not enough PR? Fewer teams with deep pockets and only racing once a week. Less interest in racing period and spending more time with family?

 I think there were 32 cars at Port and 24 at the last Lincoln weekly show. That’s 56 410’s. You’d think the Grove could draw at least half those teams for a $4777 to win show. 



I have heard many comments the last few years. Complain about owner,  track prep. Guys staying closer to their home tracks. Even heard comment that it may just be used for special events and not weekly racing. What is true or not who knows, but as little as 5 yrs ago i would go on Fridays and see 30-37  410's and 15-18 358's. Another thing is of the 2 Saturday night tracks Lincoln has lost more cars to guys quitting, going WOO or ASCOC. Plus WG used to get more cars from Lincoln then Port.

The. WOO shows (6) Plus USAC And  SLM shows brings most fans and cars, money of all. JMO



Ducer
September 01, 2019 at 03:54:37 PM
Joined: 09/01/2019
Posts: 19
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I think some of the teams are saving equipment and motor laps for the Labor Day , Tuscarora 50 and WG open and being very selective of races they run being that we’re getting later into the season and some budgets are being exhausted 


410 INSIGHTS

"I really like his mechanic Jimmy Russel. He was the guy 
that made Todd's car run good"
                    B.STRAWSER26

longtimefan
September 01, 2019 at 06:23:15 PM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 845
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This message was edited on September 01, 2019 at 06:25:31 PM by longtimefan
Reply to:
Posted By: WingedSpeed on August 31 2019 at 12:49:59 PM

Yes I hate non-handicapped shows.  Like Kauffman said last night many of his wins came from starting 16th.  Like the old days a Port when the heats and features were lined up by points.  Point leader started no better than 12th.  Also gave the little, small funded teams a chance.



Let me say this again for those who are slow learners. When those guys were winning regularly from 16th or 18th they were running for on of the few teams that were head and shoulders above most of the field. I sort of miss those teams but then again it is nice not knowing only a few teams were likely to win before you went to the race.




HoldenCaulfield
September 01, 2019 at 09:52:27 PM
Joined: 03/22/2008
Posts: 2434
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Port had 30 310's for $3600 to win, go figure. Times have changed greatly in central PA. The Grove used to have everybody who was anybody every Friday night while the Saturday tracks had a couple good cars and a bunch of low-budget field fillers. I kind of miss those days. I stopped going to the Grove weekly about 5 years ago.


A

wolfie2985
September 02, 2019 at 06:16:29 AM
Joined: 07/29/2010
Posts: 759
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Annual thread with a different subject line.

Don’t get me wrong - I wish there were 30 cars. But come September, when the moneys drying up, the motors got a lot of shows on them, and they’re just trying to make it to October, WG gets sacrificed.



fiXXXer
September 02, 2019 at 05:49:08 PM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
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Reply to:
Posted By: wolfie2985 on September 02 2019 at 06:16:29 AM

Annual thread with a different subject line.

Don’t get me wrong - I wish there were 30 cars. But come September, when the moneys drying up, the motors got a lot of shows on them, and they’re just trying to make it to October, WG gets sacrificed.



Dead on the money. Don't get me wrong, the Lincoln Icebreaker is a long standing tradition that we all enjoy. The race is legendary as far as some of the adverse conditions that we have seen races in. Hell this year, we pulled into the parking lot to find that 75% of it was still covered in snow. That said, does it really make sense to start racing at the end of winter when better weather is still 6 or more weeks away? Maybe at one time it did but it doesn't anymore. I think Central PA as a whole needs to look into shortening the season up a little bit. There's just too many races and the season goes on for far too long. I attend all those races so as a fan, it's bitter sweet but just looking at it objectively, it makes little sense to keep doing things the way we do when car counts are obviously becoming a big issue that affects all the tracks at one time or another.




bgtexpress
September 02, 2019 at 08:14:14 PM
Joined: 10/19/2016
Posts: 837
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Posted By: fiXXXer on September 02 2019 at 05:49:08 PM

Dead on the money. Don't get me wrong, the Lincoln Icebreaker is a long standing tradition that we all enjoy. The race is legendary as far as some of the adverse conditions that we have seen races in. Hell this year, we pulled into the parking lot to find that 75% of it was still covered in snow. That said, does it really make sense to start racing at the end of winter when better weather is still 6 or more weeks away? Maybe at one time it did but it doesn't anymore. I think Central PA as a whole needs to look into shortening the season up a little bit. There's just too many races and the season goes on for far too long. I attend all those races so as a fan, it's bitter sweet but just looking at it objectively, it makes little sense to keep doing things the way we do when car counts are obviously becoming a big issue that affects all the tracks at one time or another.



Start in mid April and end at the Williams Grove Open the first week of October........that's 5 and half months. I am sure as fans that would satisfy most of our racing fix and better help the teams still run a decent amount of races.



19 Posse
September 02, 2019 at 08:21:25 PM
Joined: 12/24/2012
Posts: 364
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Posted By: bgtexpress on September 02 2019 at 08:14:14 PM

Start in mid April and end at the Williams Grove Open the first week of October........that's 5 and half months. I am sure as fans that would satisfy most of our racing fix and better help the teams still run a decent amount of races.



Look how full the grandstands are at the ice breaker...if I’m a promoter...i run that SOB...



fiXXXer
September 02, 2019 at 08:36:32 PM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
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Reply to:
Posted By: bgtexpress on September 02 2019 at 08:14:14 PM

Start in mid April and end at the Williams Grove Open the first week of October........that's 5 and half months. I am sure as fans that would satisfy most of our racing fix and better help the teams still run a decent amount of races.



I agree 100%. As much as it would suck to have a longer offseason as a fan, I think it's a small price to pay if it increases the quality of the races we see when we don't have to freeze our asses off to watch them.




fiXXXer
September 02, 2019 at 08:40:13 PM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
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Posted By: 19 Posse on September 02 2019 at 08:21:25 PM

Look how full the grandstands are at the ice breaker...if I’m a promoter...i run that SOB...



I totally agree with that point of view. I get it. But at the same time, if you play the long game, it may be better for all involved to sacrifice that one good crowd way early in the year if it means that your car counts will go up. Fans won't keep turning out if the fields fall off far enough. I think it's smarter to encourage a better quality product over the long term than to spring for one big pay day that may come back around to bite you in the ass down the road. That said, I don't promote so I could be miles off base here. That's just my opinion as a fan who attends weekly at all the tracks on a regular basis.



beezr2002
September 03, 2019 at 08:55:42 AM
Joined: 04/21/2017
Posts: 1116
Reply

You guys just dont get it.  The drag strips at the grove are engine killers. If you dont have the budget to run a damn good engine there you will just be an also ran thats why the car count has dropped off the past few years. Loss of handicapped shows also killed the car count and the crowds. Hell they are lucky to get 40 cars for 2 divisiojns anymore when they used to get that on a regular Friday night show 410s only. I know things change and I don't like it but thats the way it goes. The grove needs to be a special event only track or it needs to be smaller. I remember when Sharon speedway downsized I wasn't a fan of it but it had to be done. You clowns that want a shorter season just stay inside and hibernate a month or two longer.





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