Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Was watching All Star race other night, Dale Blaney was coming to checkered flag, probably forty yards or less. Instead of checker they threw a yellow for car in turn one, So on restart they went green white checker, Am i the only one that don't think its fair for the leader to have to hold off the 2nd place car for two more laps? Don't get the logic of it. Can someone help?

I've seen this happen at other tracks, and although it sucks for the lead driver it's probably safer for the whoever caused the yellow. IMO if you don't throw the yellow then the question comes, at what point do you keep it green? 100 yards out 200?  I have seen Knoxville do yellow checkers but can't remember if it was a heat  or feature. 

Keep It Real

I don't necessarily think OP is talking the yellow, but rather the green and white being separate laps as opposed to throwing the green/white simultaneously and running a lap then checkered.

There probably isn't much real logic to it, outside of racing is a spectator sport and my guess is the ASCoC decided that giving fans two additional laps leads to a more exciting finish. I'm sure it's clearly stated in the rules and every participant should understand those rules before deciding to participate. Is it the most fair? No, but neither is taking lap cars out of line and I think it is a good rule because of the entertainment it provides.

Without the fans, the racers wouldn't have much, so I think some decisions like these that are made with more entertainment in mind as opposed to fairness are fine. 

the allstars and world of outlaws have done green white checkers for years some local shows do some dont 

They do it that way because everyone in the sprint car world thinks we should copy everything NASCAR does. 

When do we:

1.  Hire a moron to say boogity boogity boogity at the start of each race? 

2.  Hire another moron to say "used ta could", "gaggle", "cat bird's seat", and "git the good out of er" at least one time during every broadcast?

3.  Hire the 1st moron's brother to strap on a GoPro and run up and down pit road making a complete fool of himself while annoying every driver?

4.  Have Dirtvision broadcast a follow the leader race for 10 minutes, then, when the battle for the lead is heating up, cut to a commercial, and come back from break to show a replay of a 5 lap, side by side battle?

Until we do these things, we have a long way to go before sprint car racing catches up to the product NASCAR is putting on the track. 

In a situation like that I have seen them wave the green and the yellow at the same time before.

The ASCoC rule is that all races must end with at least 2 green flag laps.

LoL!    All good points Egras, can't argue at all.   But you just watch, if NASCAR does away with green, white, checkered finishes it won't be long at all before sprint car racing makes the same change.   I would add too, the aforementioned morons you mention above were hired by TV networks, not NASCAR!   

When I was going to jalopy races as a small child they did the green, white, checker. Nascar was still a southern sport and rarely seen on TV then.

I think green white checkered was used in Sprint car & other dirt track forms before Nascar used it. In all actuality it appears Nascar seems to copy what short tracks do more than the other way, example "stage racing."

The situation with the All Stars this weekend is really a non issue. This situation does not come up often in a season for it to really matter, and while it is potentially "unfair" to the current leader, it is often a split second decision. With recent occurrences last year it's best they error on the side of caution & safety.

I guess I have a hard time saying that any rule that is clearly written and enforced as it's written is unfair.  I get what you're saying that the leader has to hold off the field for more laps than what is advertised, but on the other hand you could say it's unfair to the rest of the field to not have the full amount of laps to try to pass the leader.  I guess a caution on the last lap could potentially bite anyone but it's part of it.

Maybe the TV network hired them to make race seem less boring?

I am not a fan of adding laps to the feature just so the last two laps can be run consecutively under green. The winner of the race is supposed to be the driver who completes the scheduled distance first, not the guy that comes out on top after (what could be) multiple attempts to run two straight caution-free laps.

USAC has adopted this practice. Last week it came into play at one of their Midget Week shows when a driver flipped on the final lap of the feature. They lined the cars up as they were running on lap 29 and raced to lap 31. The second place car on lap 30 ended up fourth on lap 31, and the eighth place car on lap 30 finished seventh on lap 31.

This has happened multiple times over the last few years. At the Kokomo Smackdown finale in 2017, the leader on lap 40 of a 40-lap feature had to complete three green-white-checker finish attempts. He came out on top the first two, but on the third and final one he ended up second (after racing for 43 laps). This rule also affected the outcome of sprint races at Montpelier, Haubstadt, and possibly others.

I don't understand the reasoning for running additional laps to get the last two laps as consecutive green flag laps when any other caution during the feature a lap is counted if the leader and one other car complete the lap. If the reason for running additional laps at the end of the race is for the fans, why do you cheat them out of a lap in the middle of the race?

IMO if the caution or red flag is thrown one lap short of the completion of the race just restart it with the green & white flags together and race for one lap.

This post brought 2 questions to mind. 

1. When is a lap considered complete and able to be counted? Is it as soon as the leader crosses the line or do a certain  number need to finish the lap?  Is it the same on the first lap cause it seems everyone has to finish the first lap for it to be counted green.

2. If there are multiple yellows thru the night with many lapped cars , say the leader passes number 88 car and then yellow 6 times thru the night. If the leader finished 30 laps has number 88 car only finished 24? Or is he only 1 lap down?

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

Could be, but then again if the races were that boring TV would stop showing them. 

There is a lot about NASCAR that I do not like. However I do like the white flag rule. Cross the stripe at the white flag and the next flag ends the race. Don't let a yellow after the white is waved affect the outcome. still it gives the second place runner a shot at the lead if he's close enough. Nothing subjective to that.