Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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The Belleville  305 Nationals on August 3rd and 4th with the preliminary night on the 3rd paying $2500 to the winner with $350 the minimum to start the 24 car A feature. Then it’s the “Big One” on Aug 4th with the winner of the 30 lap A feature paying a whopping $7000 to win with $1000 minimum to start the 24 car finale. Non qualifiers will receive $100 on Friday night and $250 on Saturday. This will likely be the largest payout for 305’s in the nation with a purse of over $42,000 for Saturday nights A feature alone. To make the weekend even sweeter the Rebels will visit, for the first time, the Thayer Co. Speedway in Deshler, NE for $1000 to win on Thursday night Aug 2nd to make a great three day weekend.

Belleville is not a place to have a bunch of 305 newbie's to be racing for that kind of purse. I can see the stupid moves happening already and cars getting destroyed. 

What are the engine rules?

And the cost to race 305s just doubled.  This race will be won by a team that invested a bunch of extra money, not the guy the class was intended for.  To be in the hunt guys are going to have low drag bearings throughout the car, low drag wings, double bearing center pickup birdcages, a brand new 305 specific rear end.  I can probably think of a few more things.  High  dollar races jacked up the cost of modifieds, they will do the same to 305s.  

Racesaver engines only.

It surprises me this race hasn't become a modified race and I am no big fan of modifieds. The 305's are way too locked down and will never put on the show the midgets did. The midgets are a dead horse of course with the class going nowhere unless it's January  in Tulsa and you can actually get more than 20 to show up. For the modifieds the purse for the Midget Nationals would be good for that class and you would get a good field I'm willing to bet. The same group that let USAC back in are the ones rolling with this idea so it comes as no surprise. It's also USAC I have been told by good sources who wouldn't give Belleville a date that lead to this. After strong arming their way back in they shit on the place three years later. Good thing karma is a bitch......

1st of all it sucks what usac did.  from the way it sounds it went down pretty chickenshit. i too hope karma is a bitch.  2nd the 305's race there every year sometimes twice a year for about 10 yrs now.  the reason its not a modified race is because nobody would go to watch them.  they are slow, boring and slow and boring. not to mention boring.  go to any weekly imca show in ks, co, ne and there are more cars than fans whens its the normal classes without sprint cars. ya its not the WoO but the 305s have had the stands full everytime they have been there and they put on a good show.  there is not enough 410's or 360's in the area to have weekly shows anymore, but there has been a nice building of the 305 class in the last decade.  who cares if big names show up or whatever as long as they are 100% racesaver legal.  

I have seen the 305's run there but you have probably seen them more. Have you ever seen them put on a good race there? Serious question here because I have not. In my opinion the only way the 305's will put on a good race there is to take the wings off which  we all know ain't gonna happen. For everything that went wrong with the Belleville 100 (which was a modified race for those that forgot) I know people who went (who were also not modified fans) that said the racing was exceptionally good. I disagree with you about them not drawing a crowd because there is one BIG thing that helps this race almost no matter what you put on the track: it's during the fair. It helps more than most people think. I get it - I really do. Nothing stays the same forever. I don't envy the people who have to make the decisions about the future of this beloved historic speedway. Were it up to me I would have let it become a modified race before I would have let USAC back in. When you get the fox out of the henhouse you don't let him back in which is exactly what these people did. Look where that got em'.

you are right the whole deal is a shame.  the midget nationals seperated the men from the boys.  Belleville seperated men from boys.  not gonna lie, been on it myself and decided its probably more of a track for drivers who make a living driving racecars and not for a guy with a family doing it for a hobby.  also a long ways away.  much cheaper driving there, sitting in the stands, drinking beer and talking about how fast i am or bagging on drivers or newbies on a forum.  for anyone who had never been to a midget nationals when the cushion was a tire width from the fence simply wouldn't understand.  video nor stories do it any justice. Now at times obviously a track of that shape and that big does not produce the best racing when it comes to being side by side.   i will concede that. BUT, at those speeds a small bobble or just getting crossed up a little in a midget or sprint allows a car 8-10 car lengths back to cover that distance and pass the car that made the mistake.  the place is a different beast all together. Now i have been there when the 305's put on some good shows but the last handfull of yrs its seemed as if the same car had a lot more power. and drove away awfully easy.  maybe they got the setup, better driver or whatever.  I dont know but there was a couple of yrs transition period of rules to be completely racesaver.  so obviously there was different sets of rules amongst the cars.  I think everyone being on the same rules package now will change that.  so we will see.  and obvsiously rules are nothing more than rules unless they are enforced to the fullest extent and unbiased.  which is the whole purpose of the class.  to get outran by another driver not by another car.  the 305's did pack the place on a monday night before the 4th of july without the fair. is it a midget or a 410??? absolutely not. i am not making the comparison but i am enough of a realist to know that is never coming back the to region and i too understand all things change and come to an end.  so that being said i have to go with what the best thing is in the region and that is 305's.  i guess modifieds run side by side occasionally but most people want to drive or watch something that goes faster than the highway speed limit.  tight racing is good but you have to add speed to it to make it exciting.  if you cant have a midget nationals it should at least be an open wheel show.  

Copied this from IOW.  This was a big topic on thier board when the USAC schedule was announced.   The poster is an ex-USAC employee who normally has a very anti-USAC point of view.   He clearly stated that it was in fact Belleville that was not interested in having midgets any more.   Full thread is at:

http://www.indianaopenwheel.com/showthread.php?t=102233&page=4&highlight=belleville

Do not know what the business practice is today but it was not uncommon to have a USAC contract signed on race day, and when we went to Belleville we always took the contract with us.

The North Central Kansas Free Fair had 2 fair boards, I believe they referred to them as the east and west (yes 2 fair boards for 1 little county style fair). As far back as 8 years ago the board was considering ending the Nationals, but they really wanted to get to a certain year for some sentimental reason. Keep in mind that not only the fair Board but the people of Belleville looked forward to this event, it was their passion, it was their "baby".

With the 2 Fair Boards there was no room for error which made the Nationals a HUGE financial risk for Fair Board members. The members were on the hook for a $100,000 plus purse. I know this for a fact, they put up THEIR OWN MONEY and then hoped to recoup it. They did business as a solid, they paid in CASH, you got your money 1 hour after the race!!!! Now from here on I am assuming, everything prior is FACT. The members were wanting to end this event, they were tired of the yearly pressure of this event, it was a huge financial risk to them. When it is real money, and it is YOUR money, every year, with no safety net??? Maybe, the Fair Board has changed, my guess is that there are few if any left from when Belleville Midget Nationals were at their glory. It does not have to be anyone's fault that their are no Nationals. Maybe just a different group of people with a different idea of what they want to do at THEIR fair.

Jon R. Good post. As people get older i can see this happening easily.

Racesaver rules if policed are fine.The lower H.P. cars are better suited to shorter tracks .High purses equate to higher priced cars.

You all that think this will mean people will stpend the big bucks, must not know that a lot of teams already have big bucks invested. People already have low drag bearings, double bearing bird cages, 305 specific rear ends, and all out custom engines that cost in the neighborhood of 20-25K. I know of 3 or 4 of them that cost in the range of 22k in the midwest alone, and I don't have a doubt that people have them in other reigons as well. A huge number of the 305 cars in the midwest when I was racing them had the 305 specific rears, and we were racing for 600 to win at husets and 700 at eagle. Thats just nature of the beast. The only thing this will do is add to teams utilizing them, but you are blind if you think all this isn't already out there.

I saw that on IOW too but I saw this on the Belleville facebook basically the same day as well.

Facebook Commenter 1: I didn’t see them on the USAC midget schedule

Belleville Highbanks:That surprised us too.

Facebook comenter 2: Could we get another group to sanction a midget race during the fair? If there are no races during Fair Week, it will be a disaster for the NCK Free Fair AND for the city of Belleville!!!!

Belleville Highbanks:We feel the same way and are diligently trying to schedule a race. However with USAC not letting us know until now most sanctioning bodies have their schedules made.

I still find that hard to believe.   There were four promoters/track owners In the "heartland tour"  that knew that they were going to have a date in Mid July instead of the first weekend in August.   These races were always a lead up to the Midget Nationals.   They obviously knew that Belleville was not going to be on the schedule and was not going to be part of the "heartland tour"  

There was then four more promters/track owners in PA that knew that they were getting the weekend that has traditionaly been the date of the Midget Nationals.    They obviously knew that Belleville was not going to be on the schedule.  

There seems to be way too many people involved for Belleville not to have known.   I think that it is much more likely that the members of the fair board knew but did not publicize it to anyone who did not need to know. 

obviously someone is being less than truthfull on one side or the other.  probably ought to be an official statement from usac as well as bville.  if it is the case that they were putting up their own money, I don't fault anyone for deciding not to do put that kind of money on the line.  as racefanigan posted everyone is running good equipment.  I too know some that were running engines at that cost, but i also know some that have built engines on their own for 5 grand and are very competative and win occasionally.  

Belleville talked to USAC in Oct at that time USAC stated the 2018.Race was a go Belleville DID NOT find out that they were not on the schedule until the PRI show when they released the schedule. i resent your remark JonR that the fair board knew and didn’t tell anybody. 

This  guy KNOWS and this is the same information the people I know have given me.

I wonder if BC's death had anything to do with this decision?

You can resent my comment all that you want.   You still have not changed my mind.   How did so many tracks/promoters know and Belleville did not?   The Heartland promoters had worked together in the past, but no one was picking up the phone?   Finally, why didn't Belleville have a signed contract if they were concerned about the date?   

Or perhaps it is easy to spin "USAC screwed us over"  versus "We have decided to stop having the High Bank Nationals because of the finicial strain it puts on the fairboard"