Forum: Oklahomatidbits.com General Forum (go)
Moderators:  /  David Smith Jr

Ok I know some on this board do not like NASCAR and that is fine.

My question is does it seem like NASCAR is starting to go to more foreign born drivers than homegrown talent, for my question I am including Candian drivers. It was annouced that another CART driver is joining NASCAR. about two weeks ago. I think this might piss alot of more people off that are fans. Eventhough, there are people already leaving b/c the B/S that goes on already. Are we going to see the NASCAR become like the IRL and CART?

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen 

Good point Cat, it does seem NASCAR is headed in the same direction as CART, and IRL. If you recall that lead to the demise and split of Indy Car racing as we knew it. With the introduction of Toyota, next thing is for Honda to invade NASCAR bringing with them of course their foreign drivers leaving our local drivers (American) no place for advancement. I personally have witnessed an amazing amount of talent from Phoenix to Syracuse. If I'm not mistaken that's what led A.J. Foyt to break away from CART and he and Tony George started IRL. I believe the original intent was for every Midget, or Sprint Car driver in America afforded the opportunity at Indy.

I for one am certainly not looking forward to the day we are running Toyota's in our Sprint Cars.

The key point here is front engine cars and high end marketability.  These drivers suffer from a lack of experience with both compared to what we see in Nascar today. I could  be wrong but I think it is going to a lot tougher for outsiders to take over like in Cart/IRL.

Lets face it, the wheelhouse and the fans are different. If these types were to take over, then someone will have to explain to me why Robbie Gordon never did. His talent is every bit on par as theirs but he has struggled.  Today, and I mean just to showcase the talent because winning DOES matter, Today you have to drive our tracks in our kind of cars just to learn the way we do things over here. Make it that far and we may not care about nationality.

Montoya,Hornish, Villeneuve,Francitti all won the Indy 500. This was the main dream for Stewart and Gordon but IDIONAPOLIS turned a deaf ear. Now they rule their part of this sport and the opie wheel boys will have to learn very fast or they are looking for other jobs.

In the long run, Sprints and Midgets as a training background mattered a lot more than what was thought in the '70s and '80s. Idionapolis should have thought of that a lot sooner. Now they are losing their foriegn talent to the taxi cabs and only the best of those will make it.

Francitti has the best shot of a long term deal because his market prospects are hot right now and being married to Ashley Judd is a plus in NASCAR country. Now all he has to do is prove himself.

By "IDIONAPOLIS" I do not mean Tony George. I refer to those teams who should have known better and invested time in drivers who KNOW where the Chili Bowl is and what it means to win it.

Even worse, Toyotas in XXX chassis! But it could happen. That's a little scary.

Couple of points. NASCAR is not recruiting foriegn drivers. Car owners are seeking them out. They are looking for talent, which is hard to come by. Remains to be seen whether it will pan out. NASCAR drivers come from many other series. look at Jimmy Johnson and Robby Gordon. Is off road trucks a better training ground than CART or F1? My guess is that others will see how tough NASCAR is and there won't be a flood.

When Sterling Marlin sued Ginn/DEI, we found out one reason the furriners are coming. Money. Court papers showed that Marlin had a $1.2 million base pay and something like 35% of purses and a percent of shirt sales, or between 4 and 5 million per year. Nemechek got the same. Now those are good guys, but not exactly top tier drivers. If they are making that much, think how much a guy with a "name" can get. It's the money.

I don't beleive most of this batch of road racing elite to be around in 5 years. Willy T. Ribbs, Scott Goodyear are two others that come to mind that came from that environment and even though they were talented, they struggled as well.

Nobody plays jazz music at the pit stop!!!

"They're steering them sum bi***es with their right 
foot!"

to me it dont matter what driver they get... If your not in a Hendrix, roush, RCR,or Gibbs car your not going to be much of a factor anyway.. Just a field filler... Maybe a top ten finish if the top teams have a bad day or its a gas mileage race...

Agreed.

There are some NASCAR drivers saying that the open-wheel drivers are not paying thier dues and like Mike said it comes down to the money issue. They are running Toyota's in midgets.

Granted. I am just bring this question up to start debate and and keep us from being bored during the off season.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen 

how become like IRL or CART? Guess I don't understand. IRL and CART racing is better racing than NASCAR - especially if they could get more cars. They just have problems appealing tot he redneck culture of america. Look at your biggest nascar fans - most didn't like Dale Earnhardt when he was alive - but the moment he died they became huge fans of Jun-Ya (wtf?). The racing is downright horrible in nascar. For good comparison........it's like horse racing. In horse racing who really cheers for the jockey? mope everyone cheers and bet for the horses. It's the horse that wins it - primarily through good trainers or the right breeding. Training and breeding aside - nascar is just that. They race those cars like a jockey races a horse. It's 80% car and 20% driver. 80% horse and 20% jockey. I know it sounds very silly - but the comparison is a very correct one. There are about 500 drivers that could do what a large part of the nascar field is doin right now. Thats why dirt track racin is so much better......although just like nascar car has a lot to do with it. But the proportion is a more sensible one. On a dirt track you actually have to get your elbows up and race........in nascar they are just guiding it like a jockey does a damn horse. My apologies to those who are nascar fans or disagree with my opinion.

By the way I find it both ironic and amusing that minus the money in nascar - Tony Stewart would still be on dirt. I think there is a reason he likes dirt a lot more than pavement.

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

OKCfan, I disagree that CART and IndyCar put on better races. I do agree with the horse / jockey comparison. The races I enjoy the most are those where the driver's importance is highest. I guess the top of the list would be ice racing without studded tires and the bottom of the list right now is F1 unless it rains or Taledega.

High on the list is any type of car that has more power than traction. That can be a Factory Stock on a dry slick track, a sprint car without a wing, or a NASCAR race on a road course or a short or flat track. These are places where driver input is sometimes more important than the car.

I have limited interest in any racing where the driver can flat foot it in the turns. I could care less how fast they are going. That doesn't mean there is no skill involved, but it is a different skill.

Most racing series have evolved to the point that aero rules. That's a shame. I'd like to see the driver rule.

The owners in CART made a stand that if you had no experience in rear engine or road racing cars, there was no need to apply for a driving role. THEY SHOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT. Now all that is left is the money without much interest growing in their fields. The money will leave when the growth is recognized absent.

I am an OLD SCHOOL USAC fan. CART racing cut out my favorite kind of drivers, thus they cut me out too. That became their bed, now they look at the NASCAR camp wiser and looking for a second chance. Their drivers will still have to cut their teeth and prove themselves.

Look at every ex-midget,IMCA,etc. driver in NASCAR and you will see people who if they were given the chances, they would have given us a reason to LOVE Indy cars more.

Under CART, the owners sold out the magic for the money. It took a while for the older drivers to go but when they did, the spell we were under went too.

List of those who should have made it to Indy cars if things were aas good as NASCAR-(Submit your ideas too)

Kenny Weld

Steve Kinser

Wolfgang

Sammy Swindell

Jackie Howerton

Bubby Jones

Dave Blaney

J. Gordon

T. Stewart-Made it but he wanted a future

Ryan Newman

Kenny Irwin jr.

Kasey Kahne

PJ Jones

Your thoughts?

don't forget Carl Edwards,Schrader, Vogler,Vukovich 3, Danny Drinan.

Better and more chances would have kept things on a forward movement for CART.

Agreed

I'm in full agreement all round there.

I think the Indy cars could be better racing - but there sure aren't may of em. As much as I love winged sprints - I have to agree. I like super sprints - b/c I like the smaller wing.......ascs may have more HP, but those big wings lock em down - smaller wings free it up just a bit. but not enough really - hence where I really agree with you. Non-wing racing is the best. It's just amazing the good racing you could see stompin through Indiana.........and Ohio and Pennsylvania as well.

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

One thing I think I've noticed lately. Maybe it's just what I want to think but it seems that since the Prelude to The Dream everyone who competed in that race has had less negative stigma attached to their names. I really think solid credibility needs a concrete foundation and racing competitively on dirt helps these days. Montoya is not as hated as I thought he would be and there isn't as much anti- Gordon noise these days.

Let us not forget that this race had a positive feel and a positive impact for the sport. I'm sure it has been noted upstairs somewhere and next year could be just as good. Incoming drivers regardless of background would be well served to take note and compete in that race regarding the future. We may not love them more, but we may find someone else to dislike instead.

Fans like us are where the money truly is. $1 from every US citizen on average is more powerful than $100 from every CART fan. That's a VERY rough estimate but you get my point.

Sometimes we'll buy a product with a drivers name on it just because that's all there is, still there is a cut that goes to everyone placing that product in front of you. They will only gamble on a sure bet.

I doubt I'll be buying any Paul Tracy labled cigarette lighters any time soon.

By the way, I am GRUDGINGLY thankful for wings because they have kept many of my favorite drivers alive a lot longer than without. They are one of the best safety features to come along .

If I were driving a sprinter and it was gonna flip, I'd want that big ole pillow up there too. But from the stands I like to watch 'em beck 'er in.